This is we, firstly as a society and secondly as the sport of Mountain biking.
In terms of our wider lack of adventure. Much of the world has been conquered and holds little miystery. We are lethargic and apathetic to most things, we are busied with so much that stops us from living and being excited..
As Mountain bikers we seem to ride on sanitised trails on bikes that compensate for error more and more. Did we really have less fun 15 years ago, on ridgid bikes with cantis?
There is a rise of interest in bikepacking, but do events such as the Bearbones and WRT take the true adventure out of it as we look others to organise our adventures?
There are not my views necessarily, but I think an interesting topic of discussion. I have been mountain biking for more than 20 years now and I have seen it change so much and I can't help but feel some of the fun has gone from it.
Define "we"
Well, just do what YOU think is fun. If this is taking a hard-tail with Vs out in the wilds then do it.
I think most people mix things up a bit. Sometimes it's nice to do natural, wild rides, sometimes a trail centre is nice. Sometimes camping in a remote spot is nice, sometimes a good hotel is nice.
i crossed the road without using the zebra crossing on the way to Waitrose today
I'm not "we".
I sometimes go places in the car..............with no sat nav OR MAP!!!
I don't lack any adventure. Seems to me that life is what you make it and so I try my best right now, tomorrow it may be out of my hands.
Sometimes it's nice to do natural, wild rides
no need to bring the OPs mum into this..
[/needlessly juvenile]
A sport has been opened up to more people by providing more entry level trails. Couple that with a progression in riders and bikes some things may be easier. Made trail also provides a technical challenge allowing riders to progress.
On the other hand know loads who still ride predominantly out there in the real world. However linking up rides in a responsible way to avoid trawling through bogs etc is hard in poorer weather so a constructed trail wins there.
There are probably a similar number of riders doing out there stuff, just a lot more new comers who can get into the sport easier and have never had to go looking for trails like we used to do.
Ain't no strava segments in the wilderness. What would be the point?
I think events like the Bearbones 200 and the WRT afford people the opportunity to be introduced to bikepacking and then go on to craft their own adventure.
Disagree. I'm still enjoying my little adventurettes - the countryside is there for exploring. The secret is studying a map and looking for interesting things to incorporate into a ride.
Of course 'we' are.
Successive generations seem to be getting softer and softer, more and more insulated from the world around us. Mountain biking is a great example; it's about driving to the place we ride, then driving home. It's about the pads and the gloves and the helmet and the sports drinks and the gels and the first aid kit, not about the ride itself.
Most of my reading these days is other folk blogging about rides and walks they are doing "out there". It seems to me that there are more than ever (although that may just be because it's so easy to blog it these days). Bikepacking kit is developing - just look at how long that STW thread got!
Auch, I wouldn't worry. There's definitely a new breed of mountain biker who has grown up with trail centres and tends to stick to them. It's a narrow world view. Not wrong but different from what I like. I have to confess that
Organised event rides have never been my bag. Riding round in circles for multiple laps seems like a bit of a waste of a day to me. Perhaps I'm just not competitive enough? Who knows?
As for the bikes changing, what we ride now are light years better and to my mind, make riding more fun. Having ridden some pretty tetchy stuff this weekend in the Lakes, I know I wouldn't have been able to ride them with anywhere near as much a sense of fun and in control as I did on my full susser. Technology has opened up a whole world of possibilities for me. I could ride the same routes on my old rigid Fat Chance but when I have something that makes the riding both faster and safer, why would I bother other than to prove a point? Adventure is where you find it and doesn't have to be miles from home.
Just don't get me started on Strava and Endomondo pish! Ha! Ha!
I don't think many people ride trail centres every week though do they? Wild riding is all good and it's what I do most of the time. Every now and then it's good to leave the map at home and follow the arrows somewhere that you know is going to be relatively clean and guaranteed to raise a smile.
same with the bikepacking thing. If there was an event every weekend I don't think many people would do them all but it's nice to meet new folk who enjoy the same thing and have that element of competition now and again, even though bikepacking by it's very nature is about getting away from the crowds most of the time
Nah. Not here anyway. Luddite when it comes to tech, yes. Having somekind of adventure as much as I can, yes )
I'd say that's a perception, not reality. People don't climb everest in tweed jackets with half a ham in the rucksac anymore, but people have adventures that are relatively similar, the only thing that's changed is communication has shrunk the world and made more beta available if you want it.Successive generations seem to be getting softer and softer, more and more insulated from the world around us. Mountain biking is a great example; it's about driving to the place we ride, then driving home. It's about the pads and the gloves and the helmet and the sports drinks and the gels and the first aid kit, not about the ride itself.
tommid, kaesae has stolen your log in...
I have friends who ride Ashton court a lot .To me this is the dullest thing to do on a bike, sanitised gravel for the masses .I did it once and was bored shitless ,would much rather take a map and explore
The WRT is whatever you organise it to be yourselve, it's a race (with yourself) or a personal journey...whatever it is it will probably be wet 😉 Nothing much is actually organised for you other than some waypoints and tea and cake. It's the best fun I had on my bike this year and I plan to be back next year.
Last night I packed up my rigid bike, went riding in the dark by myself, drank lots of rum, looked at the stars amd slept in a bothy. I don't have loads of spare time so microadventures (copyright alistair humpreys) are cool and keep me vaguely sane before I am locked back up in the office for the week
You can keep your canti brakes though as I am old enough to have started with them!
I have friends who ride [b]in the hills[/b] a lot .To me this is the dullest thing to do on a bike, [b]boring dull trails and bogs[/b] .I did it once and [b]spent the whole day carrying up stuff, wading through bogs, avoiding walkers and carrying down things that were unridable[/b] ,would much rather [b]get out for a good blast and have a big smile on my face[/b]
It goes both ways, given the reported summer that has been going on finding good trails in good condition would have been tough.
To think of it as an either or is the dull bit. Both mixed together make for happiness (and not getting snobby about it)
As Mountain bikers we seem to ride on sanitised trails on bikes that compensate for error more and more.
speak for yourself.....
very rarely encounter other riders when out on the trails, but that is generally because we end up carrying for an hour or so to get to the remote peaks and trails. and all of that on a hardtail 🙂
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To think of it as an either or is the dull bit. Both mixed together make for happiness (and not getting snobby about it)
At last, someone with some common dog. What a pointless bit of navel gazing this thread is and it's absolutely guaranteed to bring out the worst of STW. Don't like trail centres? Don't ****ing ride them then! Not rocket science is it?
absolutely guaranteed to bring out the worst of STW
You asked for it!! Common Dog are you calling my dog common!!
At last, someone with some common dog.
We are lethargic and apathetic to most things, we are busied with so much that stops us from living and being excited..
We meaning you?
I have been mountain biking for more than 20 years now and I have seen it change so much and I can't help but feel some of the fun has gone from it.
That's a shame, but don't make the mistake of assuming everyone is jaded just because you are.
tommid - MemberDid we really have less fun 15 years ago, on ridgid bikes with cantis?
Oh yes. As far as I'm concerned, the mountain biking I like to do didn't really exist when I took my first go at it. Or it did, maybe, but was harder to find.
All the stuff that you used to do is still available. Go and do it, if that's what you think you're missing. If you're offered a choice- ie, trail centres, prepackaged events- and you take that choice, don't complain about it not being the thing you chose not to do.
i've also been mtbing for 20+ years and yes it was different back then, but when things progressed i progressed with them. Its what lifes all about, progression. Nothing about mtbing has been sanitised at all, more trails just become easier to access. My bike has went from steel thru alu, onto titanium and then carbon. Gears have went from 12 to 18, then 21, 24, 27 and now 20 and will probably go 11 soon. Forks have went rigid to suspension and brakes have went from canti to v's, past magura's and onto brakes. Its a huge part of mtbing i love is how it evolves. I can now ride things that i could only dream of 20 years ago, part of thats bike related, other is just natural evolvment.
The exciting part is people taking up mtbing now will see these as THEIR early years, and in 20 years time they'll ask exactly the same questions as yourself. Do we really need such and such when 20 years ago disc brakes were ample etc etc
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Sanny - MemberJust don't get me started on Strava and Endomondo pish! Ha! Ha!
Great to hear someone else say this. I had a little rant about this crap recently and simply think tracking every metre of your ride is utter nonsense and about as far from adventure as you can get.
[i]simply think tracking every metre of your ride is utter nonsense and about as far from adventure as you can get.[/i]
You're right, all those Iditarod and Great Divide riders should ditch their spot trackers asap and get on with having a proper adventure.
Conversely, slinging somthing in your pack that lets you have a look at what you did once you get home just adds a bit of extra interest for some people.
Doesn't change what they ride.
Doesn't change where they ride.
Doesn't change how they ride.
Can't see the issue.
We live in a society* where its seems progressively more common to criticise others activity, instead of just getting on with our own fun and lives.
*STW anyway.
ps. My fathers generation seemed a lot less adventurous than ours, if anything technology and travel have opened up an amazing world of possibility and adventure not known to the vast majority of previous generations.
The world is getting smaller. It's a great shame...but its progress. And the more people who become keen to "adventure"...the less adventurous it is, because 90% of adventure is perception anyway.
40 years ago, going to somewhere third world on holiday was quite adventurous...now every 18 year old kid spends 12 months trotting round Asia.
[i]ps. My fathers generation seemed a lot less adventurous than ours, if anything technology and travel have opened up an amazing world of possibility and adventure not known to the vast majority of previous generations.
[/i]
MSP
Or did they just have their kids younger with the consequential mortgage/responsibilties?
Much of the world has been conquered
While landmasses perhaps, there's so much we don't know about what goes on in the world. I'm flummoxed by mysteries daily.
we seem to ride on sanitised trails on bikes that compensate for error more and more.
I ride harder trails or the same trails faster, or just enjoy the scenery.
There are not my views necessarily, but I think an interesting topic of discussion.
Cop out!
I can't help but feel some of the fun has gone from it.
New trails and adventures required. Time to head out into new places and "conquer" those for yourself.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/2010-a-year-in-mountains
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/2011-a-year-in-mountains
This year's instalment is already set to contain more adventures that 2010 and 2011. My sense of adventure is truly intact, thanks!
I have ridden less trail centres this year purely because I've moved from being right next to the 7 Stanes to England. Trail centres are trails to ride, and you get more fun packed into the same time, which is great when you are squeezed for time. I could ride all of Glentress in a couple of hours easily but now I live in the Peak District I have to link a few ribbons of trail together with a fair whack of road.
People riding bikes is good, wherever it is, and some people do this for fun, not "adventure". It's like the difference between people going for a jog with their mates around their housing estate and an off road ultra marathon runner- same sport, but each would consider the other's way of doing it not fun, and not see the point of it. And why ride bikes if it's not fun?
And Strava has made me better at bikes- fitter, and forced me to focus my skills, which is useful in the mountains where you want to come out in one piece. And now I can look back at all the trails I've ridden, which is nice.
but now I live in the Peak District I have to link a few ribbons of trail together with a fair whack of road.
Pfff...you're riding the wrong bits then. 😀
Not from where I live- it's road all the way, unless I want a mediocre ride out there through Rivelin. Which isn't really the best source of quality trails.
It's interesting.. perhaps it's an older persons game now..?
A lot of people are coming into it in their mid life crisis, with salary, mortgage and kids to worry about.. With no time for trial and error, it makes sense to have their McHobby in a strictly portion controlled styrofoam container.. With an allocated time slot, set targets to live out the competitive urges and a handy meeting point to compare willies before and debrief over a latte after.. Even the Cairngorm plateau and Ben Huey is a trail centre now
The new folk coming into it, the young dumb and full of cum guys with disposable income and time on their hands that would have traditionally been looking for adventure, can now be as adventurous as they like by simply donning armour and full face helmet and hurling themselves upon gravity's mercy.. the adventure coming from the next road gap or drop, as they hurtle down the Redbull Energy McWorld Cup Course round the back of Natwest in Swindon..
And those few hardy souls that crave something more...? Well their kicks come on the McAlpine adventure week, or McMunro weekend, STW endorsed with plenty to write home about.. MaccaPacka bivvy bags surgically attached to their backs..
And the folk that won't fit into my neat stereotypes..? The wild cards that we can't predict..?
Training for their next 100 mile sportive..
Or on here.. Whingeing
and the first aid kit
I don't think that really belongs in the category with energy gels full sussers and body armour. Sometimes it's kind of necessary to have things sanitary.
I know that bikes do represent a lot of freedom for people but lets be honest there is only so much of the world that is actually rideable. You can push out the sides of your enevelope a bit by getting more remote, riding more technical trails, going faster, jumping higher and for all of these needs there are horses and indeed courses.
The only real difference between trundling round a trail centre and trudging across some traction foresaken uplands is the kind of story you can tell when you get home, and the context in which you use the word "Sweet"
I think reallyt 'adventure' is about where you go in your head as much as where you go on the ground.
As a kid I played in the woods and a stream about a mile from my house for what seemed like days (but was really just the gap between lunch and tea). The sense of adventure was enormous, the freedom from adult control, the sense of discovering new places etc.
Now I go to the woods on my bike and, in my head, it's still an adventure - I ride the same stuff a lot but it's always different, always a surprise. I discover new things about myself, leave daily life behind and escape into a world where all that matters is turnign a pedal or lifting a front wheel.
I don't 'do' trail centres so I can't comment but I can say I have an adventure a couple of times a week that always starts with me wheeling my bike out the front door and throwing a leg over it.
and I hope I always do.
Did we really have less fun 15 years ago, on ridgid bikes with cantis?
Depends how you define fun, but I'd say no, it wasn't any less fun. It felt new, exciting, it opened up my world and we started to explore the hills and trails in a 20-ish mile radius of where we lived as a bunch of 12-14 year olds on bikes, good times, never been so knackered. Never lost that feeling. I saw a group of kids of the same age miles from a carpark doing the same last weekend and thought 'good for them..' .. and for the parents that let them out.
In fact as I was slogging in the mud looking for trail links a few weeks ago I had a clear memory of exploring the lanes near my home alone on my bmx in the summer, at 7 or 8 years old.
30 years on and some things haven't changed. I'm sure it's the same for a lot of others, this perception that we're all going soft is daft, just a negative outlook on life. Some are, they always were.
You can't see through other's eyes, but some still judge.
(edit - www, here's to that)
Well, just do what YOU think is fun. If this is taking a hard-tail with Vs out in the wilds then do it.I think most people mix things up a bit. Sometimes it's nice to do natural, wild rides, sometimes a trail centre is nice. Sometimes camping in a remote spot is nice, sometimes a good hotel is nice.
That pretty much sums my views up perfectly.
b r - Member[i]"MSP
ps. My fathers generation seemed a lot less adventurous than ours, if anything technology and travel have opened up an amazing world of possibility and adventure not known to the vast majority of previous generations."
[/i]
MSPOr did they just have their kids younger with the consequential mortgage/responsibilities?
I was thinking about this only yesterday.
Compared with my Dad, I had more opportunities, 8 more child-free years in my 20s/30s and a seemingly (relatively)lower cost of living/playing.
I've done and experienced some great (and some challenging and dangerous) things and places.
-I'm very fortunate.
My grandfathers' generation(and many generations before them) had a war to go to, which either killed them, maimed them and/or gave them a lot of amazing (good or bad) experiences think about. Life was harder in the past for most.
Having now [i]become my Dad[/i], my opportunities for 'adventure' are somewhat more limited by [b]time[/b] and having to earn money, which is a shame. Yes, I know that it is a selfish view.
Just don't get me started on Strava and Endomondo pish! Ha! Ha!
Great to hear someone else say this. I had a little rant about this crap recently and simply think tracking every metre of your ride is utter nonsense and about as far from adventure as you can get.
100% agree on the Strava thing.
But have no problem with using technology to record interesting adventures/trips whether on foot, bike or skis. Bit like taking photos of interesting rides/trips.
ps. My fathers generation seemed a lot less adventurous than ours, if anything technology and travel have opened up an amazing world of possibility and adventure not known to the vast majority of previous generations.
Might be a generation thing? or just the way things change?
My Grandfather and Great-Grandfather certainly seemed more adventurous than my parents' generation. (edit: and not just due to wars as above^^ but also out of war, although maybe the adventure of war shaped their peace time adventures?)
Or maybe it's just what you get and can do as a kid? Was off exploring on my Raleigh Winner from about age 11. Many miles away on country lanes, with nothing more than a 20p coin and knowing how to use a phone box. No Megadrive/SNES for me (had to share and Amstrad).
Who would let their 11yo kid ride 4 villages away these days, 10 miles there and back, sans iPhone, without needing to be told where they are going, but just have free reign and have to be back by 6:30pm for dinner?
andytherocketeer - MemberMight be a generation thing? or just the way things change?
My Grandfather and Great-Grandfather certainly seemed more adventurous than my parents' generation. (edit: and not just due to wars as above^^ but also out of war, although maybe the adventure of war shaped their peace time adventures?)
I agree. I think the overall "harshness" of life resulted in people who died young or were tougher/more resilient.
My parents generation became more 'comfortable', although thankfully my Dad did introduce me to the outdoors and 'man skills'.
Wow, back to the days of Nicomachus – that's going some.
saxabar - MemberWow, back to the days of Nicomachus – that's going some.
Complaining about the youth of today isn't a new thing, you know...
I don't think there is less adventurous stuff going on. I think there is much more of a divide between people who do stuff and people who don't nowadays. But if you want adventure, it is much easier to find people to do it with, and get information about it, and get out there.
For example I do a lot of 'wild swimming', or what in the past would just have been called 'swimming'. In the past, lots of people would have swum outdoors every so often, so if I went down the river for a dip, your average person wouldn't have thought I was a nutter. Yesterday, my pile of clothes next to the river was briefly mistaken for evidence of a suicide attempt (thank goodness I got back before they called the police - I shall hide my clothes better next time!), that is how odd outdoor swimming is to the average person nowadays.
But on the flip side, thanks to the internet, there is tons of information out there and I know loads of other people who also choose to go swimming outside on a regular basis. For example, I've got a bit of an ongoing swimming project relating to our local river. Before a swim, I have easy access to good maps and aerial photos to check out where is swimmable, where weirs and rapids are, what the banks look like, I can ask other local swimmers about the area and the access, I also get a lot of good info off canoe sites, the current water level is available on the environment agency website so I know if it'll be deep enough, and sometimes I can arrange people to swim with. I can also access more information about how to push myself safely with relation to currents, extremely cold water, big lakes or whatever which mean I can do bigger things without being in too much danger.
Good question OP!
I think there are two answers to this - and they are diametrically opposed.
One the one hand we have become much greater risk takers - biking, off-piste skiing, white water rafting, rock climbing (does anyone start on diffs and v diffs anymore?) etc. To the extent that I believe that we often under-estimate risks and over-rely on technology improvements.
On the other, we have become absurdly risk-averse in more mundane aspects of life and our kids are being prevented from enjoying a lot of the freedom and controlled risk-assessment and risk-taking that their parents enjoyed. Could that be a reason why they increasingly find solace in binge drinking? (ok a bit left field there!)
joemarshall - MemberI don't think there is less adventurous stuff going on. I think there is much more of a divide between people who do stuff and people who don't nowadays.
Very true.
"The Trafford Centre set"?
Most [i]ordinary[/i] people in the UK have it quite good or are at least warm/fed/sheltered/clothed/TV'd/car'd/iPhone'd these days (the wealth may decline in future decades) and there is no need to do difficult/arduous/risky activities in the course of a normal, everyday life.
Even a foreign holiday involves only a taxi ride to/from the airport and a 'resort' for most people.
Those who do 'adventurous' activities actively seek them out.
rock climbing (does anyone start on diffs and v diffs anymore?)
If we are talking outdoor trad leading I never progressed beyond V Diffs (well, Severe actually) 😳
One the one hand we have become much greater risk takers - biking, off-piste skiing, white water rafting, rock climbing (does anyone start on diffs and v diffs anymore?) etc. To the extent that I believe that we often under-estimate risks and over-rely on technology improvements.On the other, we have become absurdly risk-averse in more mundane aspects of life
I sort of agree with this. If you define adventure as doing something where the outcome is unknown and the consequences are potentially dangerous, on an individual level the outliers are probably more adventurous than in the past (think: Rampage, Baumgartner et all). Collectively though, we have become more risk averse and therefore less adventurous.
I am not sure if I would catagorise most biking (even with a map)or even rockclimbing as adventure though. Not massively dangerous and too close to civilisation and security.
I'm nearing 50. Do you think my dad would be out on the hills on a pushbike when he was that age?
munrobiker - there are some exciting bits of track into, and out of rivelin if you know where to look........
I actually agree with the OP on this one. I for one am much less likely to be seen with a map these days.
I think I simply have less time, and I am fatter, and I have a bigger bike. It all adds up to not really wanting to spend 5 hours trudging through a bog to figure out what a certain piece of trail is like.
I'm much more likely to go to Greno \ wharnecliffe \ parkwood \ bolehill \ some trail centre and at least know I will be able to get the wheels off the ground
imnotverygood - MemberI'm nearing 50. Do you think my dad would be out on the hills on a pushbike when he was that age?
Possibly not.
My Grandad, who had been quite adventurous, was still into a bit of urban exploration, or "trespassing" as it was known then when in his 60s-70s. If he was around now he'd probably be posting up photos on the www.
I'm nearing 50. Do you think my dad would be out on the hills on a pushbike when he was that age?
or whizzing round woods at night with a head torch.
🙂
I plan to be doing things that would have been classed 'adventure'
back in the day ,for as long as I can.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20026099 ]Keep going[/url]