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half the contents of Go Outdoors you seem to strap to your bike?
Not this morning, just a quick blast out of the front door. But I load up overnight kit so I can ride further from the front door than might otherwise be possible. Anyone who thinks the e-MTBs referenced by the OP are reducing car miles is probably mistaken. I think it's more elitist to normalise the idea you can't take up cycling without spending multiple thousands of pounds on a bike, which is what's happening.
I think it's normally @Scotroutes who points out that the average bike bought in the UK costs well south of £500, but don't let that get in the way of your preconceptions.
Robz
Edinburgh Bike cooperative near me still have a sign in the door that says “The revolution won’t be motorised”
dyna-ti
And yet they’re doing a roaring trade in Ebikes.
Yes that was my point hence the "LOL" that followed that statement - more ebikes than actual mountain bikes!
I have no issue with ebikes and will probably end up buying one at some point. But i do get a bit sentimental that the old "its not about the bike, its about the rider" ethos seems to be dying out.
I was talking to a guy on a VERY expensive ebike recently who seemed more concerned with telling us all about how VERY expensive his bike was. With no real comprehension that he was quite poor at actually riding it. I just thought "is this where its all heading? MTBers becoming like competitive car bores where is all about what you have rather than what you can do on it"
That was happening well before folk started buying bikes with motors.
I think it’s more elitist to normalise the idea you can’t take up cycling without spending multiple thousands of pounds on a bike, which is what’s happening.
It's really not though is it.
I take it you also moan and bitch about people with expensive houses/cars/watches/chess sets.
It's elitist to imply you had more right to be where ever you were than the person you saw...
I just thought “is this where its all heading? MTBers becoming like competitive car bores where is all about what you have rather than what you can do on it”
Has it not been so for years? MTB is the new golf for many.
the average bike bought in the UK costs well south of £500, but don’t let that get in the way of your preconceptions.
Skewed by BSOs bought for kids. If you're a real grownup, well, don't be like those kids and poor people, you simply must have this £5K e-MTB. You'll get just as fit as on an old fashioned bike, and be actively helping the planet. Or something (like you give a sh!t). Choose life, etc.
That was happening well before folk started buying bikes with motors.
Yes, true. But the guy on the Santa Cruz would often go a bit quiet when the guy on the Muddy Fox would leave him for dead on the climbs. With ebikes that fitness differential has been diminished so its become a lot more about the bike.
thats one of the great things about Mountain biking, you can have all the gear and little to no idea, but 99% of people wont know this, as its unlikely to see someone on the trail long enough.
I felt rather outgunned on my 125mm travel Norco Optic at the Megavalanche, until i was passing plenty of chaps riding Nukeproof Mega,s & giga's, various Pivot's and Yeti's.
Its all smoke and mirrors.
Ask any MTBer, any real MTBer, its not how you ride your bike, its how you stand by your bike (Quote - Din Viesel, circa 2001)
so its become a lot more about the bike.
Yeah but so what? If people are excited by their bike, then that's cool, and if part of that exclamation is the cost of it well so what? Other people riding other bikes has literally no impact on my enjoyment of me riding my bike. I do though get a kick out of seeing folks enjoying themselves on their bikes. (regardless of whether it's motorised or not)
Sure, but this gets back to the OPs point. If the impression is that you need to spend £5k on an ebike to have fun - because that's normal and what everyone else does - then that could put many folk off. This impression is set up by the manufacturers and boosted by the media.
Just a thought - I'd like to read a piece that listed the top 10 best-selling bikes - by volume - from each of the major MTB brands. Specifically UK sales. Perhaps followed up by a proper review/test on the top.
@stwhannah - any chance?
MTB is the new golf for many.
That cliche has been around for so long that it's got a zimmer frame.
This impression is set up by the manufacturers and boosted by the media.
Yeah I think that's fair comment. I'd imagine that most E-bikes are being bought on credit schemes - a lot like the explosion in Santa Cruz a few years back I guess. I still think that if folks are seeing these bikes and either thinking that it's a way of getting into mountain biking that makes it achievable for them, or that it means they can go out with their spouses, or they've tried one and just had a bunch of fun, then that's all to the good.
I just don't' think it's my place to judge what people spend their cash on, or get snooty about people having "different fun" to me.
Although I think we can all agree that gravel riders should be shunned, am I right?
What about eGravel?
Yeah but so what
the OPs point. If the impression is that you need to spend £5k on an ebike to have fun – because that’s normal and what everyone else does – then that could put many folk off
That's what.
I think you were so busy taking umbrage at any criticism of eebs that you'd gone off on one.
The point being made is that having wealth as the barrier to MTB participation is no better than having fitness as the barrier.
What about eGravel?
🤣🤣
What about eGravel?
🙂
Or when,far from home, the battery runs out -->> eGrovel
The point being made is that having wealth as the barrier to MTB participation is no better than having fitness as the barrier.
I'll bet there's more folk with the cash for monthly payments than there are folks with the fitness needed for 20 miles and a couple thousand feet of climbing under their own steam. And if that's cash that's not going into drinking or kebabs or fags or unused gym membership then all's the better.
Oof, you'd be a brave man to go out to your average Brit just now and say "I reckon you're too unfit to cycle 20 miles, but I'm sure you have a few thousand quid to drop on an e bike in the current climate"
Even more so if it's a couple/ family we're talking about!
"Whaddaya mean you don't have 12 grand hanging around. Just stick it on finance, cut back on the fags and stop filling your face with kebabs!"
Love it🤩
But there they are....You can go to any trail centre or honey pot location, or bike parks...and everywhere is filled with folks (having fun) on E-bikes. There are some places (like Llandegla for instance) that have almost become E-bike trail centres by default, they're so popular
So they're amongst us, riding bikes, having a grand time, from my perspective it's only folks not on E-bikes that seem to have issues with it.
go out to your average Brit just now and say “I reckon you’re too unfit to cycle 20 miles"
I spoke to one of my colleagues today who was astounded that I cycle 8 miles to and from work on the flat each day. I think what we (regular mountain bikers) think is a acceptable mileage, and what an average civilian thinks is doable is probably further apart than we often think
Oof, you’d be a brave man to go out to your average Brit just now and say “I reckon you’re too unfit to cycle 20 miles, but I’m sure you have a few thousand quid to drop on an e bike in the current climate”
Even more so if it’s a couple/ family we’re talking about!
People always find money for the things they want, whether that's an expensive lease car, an unused gym membership, 4 cans of Stella every night or 20 fags a day. I'm not seeing my colleagues change their habits despite the constant doom-laden headlines on the news.
Agree. I am just at warming up distance by the time the average Brit will be putting their bike back on the car.
Never really understood this barrier to entry nonsense either. If you want to go and ride a bike off road then get a used bike for a few hundred quid and off you go. I ride 3-4 times a week, only own one bike and that bike cost £800 to put together.
As for a fitness barrier, there is a good way to sort that out - ride the few hundred quid bike a lot.
they’re amongst us, riding bikes, having a grand time,
Indeed they are. There are also loads of people doing it on neebs. But the existence of these two groups does nothing whatsoever to negate the fact that there will be loads of other people for whom fitness or money are a barrier. So SR's point stands.
it’s only folks not on E-bikes that seem to have issues with it.
Isn't that a self evidently true obviousism. "It's only the folk not eating meat who have a problem with eating meat"
Well yes of course...
ovviousism
a what now?
Sorry, typo. My eekeyboard is playing up.
Where's that damned typewriter.
But the existence of these two groups does nothing whatsoever to negate the fact that there will be loads of other people for whom fitness or money are a barrier
I don't disagree with you, my point was that I think more people have an issue with fitness than money, not that these barriers don't exist at all.
People don't do mountain biking because it's hard, not because it costs too much. You can do mountain biking on a £500 bike, we all know this, but with a nominal monthly outlay, the bit that stops you from doing mountain biking goes away...That
It's probably easier to get fit than it is to get money though. (Could just be me? Broke singlespeeder...)
But fit people, say my running friends, can get on any old BSO and have a laugh regardless of wealth. Unfit people can get on one and steadily improve. Very few people can just get an ebike on a whim.
Money is more of a barrier than fitness if ebikes are deemed essential by the media/popular perception/whatever.
If you want to go and ride a bike off road then get a used bike for a few hundred quid and off you go.
It's a perceived barrier to entry. People end up seeing forums saying 'oh you really want this and that for X thousand' and magazines reviewing five or six grand bikes as if that's normal and not an absolute **** load of money for a bike.
Or just ignore it and make your own decisions about what you need.
It’s probably easier to get fit than it is to get money though.
For some maybe, and if you've been mountain biking for any length of time, you've probably forgotten (or buried) how hard it was when you started, and for lots of folks, life gets in the way of the time it takes to get fit. A job with long hours...time away from your family, it all adds up.
After a year or so on your £500 bike you're maybe fitter than you were and can tackle some bigger hills...OR...for £70.00 (or there abouts) a month you can go literally anywhere right now. Plus, of course, they're loads of fun, so why wouldn't you?
Or just ignore it and make your own decisions about what you need.
Easier said than done! Hadn't you noticed an entire industry of very clever, very well paid people whose sole purpose in life is to influence your buying decisions in any number of very subtle (or not) ways? I mean, here we all are hanging around the forum of a mountainbike magazine, the existence of which pretty much depends on people trying to market things at us...
I really don't care but on a recent day long ride from Coniston and around Loughrigg, we saw about 20 riders on e-bikes and only 2 other riders on a non e-bikes. I suppose if you have a nice new e bike then it's probably where you would take it to ride.
Anecdata but I'd say the majority (75%?) of rider/groups I see in the Cotswolds since moving here at the start of the year are on e-bikes. Groups of 4-8 riders with all or 90% on e-bikes are common on a Saturday/Sunday on the mix of waymarked, trad and cheeky XC trails. Solo XC riders on non-Es are far less common. I probably notice the e-bikes and groups mre though, so it's a skewed impression. Certainly a common thing locally. In the Chilterns previously I saw relatively few e-bikes, but it's not so steep so often there.
I think mainstream MTB will be a powered sport in time and it'll leave unpowered, mainly XC riding as a niche. The more entry prices come down, the more it'll be the case.
one of the reason I love mountain biking is the fitness aspect, but E-bikes are just a hoot. I can totally get why folks buy them.
Same here. I can see me owning an XCO type bike and an E-enduro bike, 2 polar opposite MTBs. I just can't quite make the jump to anything as complex as an average E-FS.
I think mainstream MTB will be a powered sport in time and it’ll leave unpowered, mainly XC riding as a niche.
Could you define both of those terms for me as I perhaps don't see them as being much different. Do you think that mainstream = winch and plummet?
I think you see more ebikes when you’re on a normal bike because they’re so much quicker uphill, especially on trails that are more one-way (like woodland rides where you claim the fire roads and descent the singletrack). So if there are equal numbers of e and normal bikes it’ll seem like there are more ebikes based on what a normal MTBer sees. I’ve felt quite embarrassed lapping people repeatedly on mine.
I’m coming round to four years of eMTB ownership - used for daily commuting on and off-road and a fair bit of proper MTB rides. My other MTB is now a singlespeed hardtail - rubbish for commuting because it spins out on the flatter road bits but brilliant fun for proper MTBing.
Curiously I found a normal full-sus annoyingly slow compared to an e-full-sus, so that got sold and I kept my hardtail which felt so much more efficient. The singlespeed is better still because, like the ebike on turbo, it wants you to go fast all the time. Not sure how my legs will fare on longer (over 3 hour) rides but it’s a fun challenge!
I'll have one in the next couple of years I reckon. I'll just keep hiring them for the time being as they're too expensive at the mo.
So much fun and would allow for so much descending in a day without an uplift.
I think they’re great enabling technologies for those that really need them but loads of people just don’t.
This is really the issue for me and I know it's "elitist" but I really don't think a fair chunk of those adopting eMTBS need them. How often do we see threads on here where people are mulling getting an eeb, not because they're unfit but because they have a group of eeb riding mates to keep up with...
I can't help thinking that if eMTBS become seen as the "default" that the whole "barrier to entry" will go from fitness and enthusiasm to financial firepower.
The interesting thing I've noticed (anecdotal of course) is ivet seen less of them at cheeky local trails or on "boring" longer bridal paths, instead eMTBs seem to be drawn more towards busier trail centres and the like. I do wonder if their main victim will be uplifts, surely being able to breeze up on battery power means you won't be paying to sit in a sweaty old transit...
The reality is that eMTBs are a thing now and will certainly be latched onto by the new-golfers and car park bitches. Those of us usi g boring old Human muscles to move our bikes about probably are going to bee seen as outliers by some, but I think there is something a bit more honest about a conventional bicycle for me. I still think you should "earn your turns" if you can...
The interesting thing I’ve noticed (anecdotal of course) is ivet seen less of them at cheeky local trails or on “boring” longer bridal paths, instead eMTBs seem to be drawn more towards busier trail centres and the like.
I was wondering if this is what @jameso was meaning.
The reality is that eMTBs are a thing now and will certainly be latched onto by the new-golfers and car park bitches. Those of us usi g boring old Human muscles to move our bikes about probably are going to bee seen as outliers by some, but I think there is something a bit more honest about a conventional bicycle for me. I still think you should “earn your turns” if you can…
I find the total opposite around here.
It's the experienced skilled riders that are looking past the preconceptions and realising how much more descending you can fit into a cheeky mid week afternoon ride and taking full advantage of what that brings to your riding skills.
As I've also said though no one I know has given up on riding a manual bike as well as it has it's advantages in certain situations over an eeb.
This is really the issue for me and I know it’s “elitist” but I really don’t think a fair chunk of those adopting eMTBS need them.
Do you [b]need gear, suspension, disc brakes[/b]
Of course you don't but they sure bring a whole lot more enjoyment to a ride.
All riding all good in my view.
I genuinely don't get what the problem is.
It's just people pissing about on bikes in the woods.
singlespeedstu
Do you need gear, suspension, disc brakes
Of course you don’t but they sure bring a whole lot more enjoyment to a ride.All riding all good in my view.
I genuinely don’t get what the problem is.
It’s just people pissing about on bikes in the woods.
Perfectly put, many of us can remember the advent of suspension and disk brakes, the anger that provoked was immense, I know people that have got into cycling through e-bikes as the hills scared them but now own other non e-bikes as their fitness came on really quickly. Plus as you said I know some very handy mountain bikers who use them a lot just because they can hone their skills even more on the fun stuff.
Do you need gear, suspension, disc brakes
These things make regular mountain bikes perform better and more reliably (typically) but they don’t fundamentally change the way that locomotion occurs.
For me, cycling is people powered but I get that other people don’t agree. I am by no means anti e bike in all circumstances but am surprised how common ebikes are getting with young/ish people even on tame/fairly flat trails.
And I do absolutely see how they can enable more riding/descending to get done in less time. I image an e bike would be very handy during interseason in the Alps when the lifts ain’t on. But as I mentioned previously making access to repeated sessioning of trails easier has potential detrimental impact in some (non trail centre) contexts.
I don’t remember any anger related to mtb suspension or disc brakes when they were introduced. Hydraulic discs were a godsend, even if they were a crock of crap by today’s standards.
To go back to the OPs original question…
I really hope that mountain biking doesn’t become motor powered by default.