Just thinking, as there are a lot in the first page of the charge spoon thread!
No, it's a conspiracy
I love mine. I have other bikes but if I could only keep one it would definitely be my Soul.
Nope. I don't think so. They are super popular on here with people who like to be 'in' on shit.
Quite heavy and lumbering in my opinion. I'm sure someone will be on there way shortly to correct me.
Love what Cy has done in terms of the brand etc, just not really a bike for me.
Depends what you're after. 100-140mm fork trail capable and a reasonable light weight for steel. All generations get good write ups and the new one is stronger, takes a tapered fork and a 31.6 dropper. For me it was the ideal buy.
Heavy and lumbering? With SLX drivetrain a Reverb and Hopes/Arch EX mine weighs 11.7kg.... for a 120 mm hardtail that ain't bad going. It's heavier than an out and out XC bike, but the frame only weighs 300g more than my Cube Ltd that it replaced. Build it with an eye on the scales rather than your wallet, and you'd be right in there. I'll take a 300g weight penalty over harsh alu any day.
No, it's just getting silly meeting more and more riders who are not only riding the same bike as me, but being equally smug about it...
like mine
If Marin brought out the exact same bike for half the price people would continue to buy the cotic.
If Orange did the exact same bike at same price it would be over priced
I had one & thought its was a great frame for what its worth
Mountainbikers are pretty guillable when it comes to marketing and a conservative lot, it's very much 'i like what I know and a I know what I like' that's why so many buy road rats or Whyte hybrids/cross bikes, they are overpriced hybrids with a familiar name on the downtube so they feel comforted and reassured as they trundle along or their dodgy handling slack angled overpriced hybrid.
They like to be on chummy first name terms with the balding awkward person who owns the business who just like them is a bit geeky. They feel like they are being looked after, this and the affirmation of their vanity purchase by their peers makes them feel good about themselves.
If any doubt creeps in there is always the tease of the next improved sycophant MKIII with the slightly beefier downtube coming out (nobody talks about the significant number that had the head tubes fly off)
The short answer is its just another steel bike that's a bit more expensive than the others.
Your not from round here are you? This is a local forum for local bikers!
On the contrary I have been around here for far too long.
Laughing at the bloke who's taken offence at his overly heavy steel frame being called heavy and then trying to justify his choice with utter cobblers about harshness. 😀
See MrSmith's reply
"Mountainbikers are pretty guillable when it comes to marketing and a conservative lot"
Yeah I remember Cotic taking out full page ads selling the Soul in ALL the MTB mags - NOT!
And been a new company with little history in cycle trade, sure it didn't worry any one at all about forking out a load of money and if back up/warranty is going to be any good.
I think the wasn't that many type of frames like the Soul out there at the time and rode a lot better than most other bikes, it well designed for UK type conditions by someone in the UK. (I do think that also helped.)
I've ridden a couple of other steel frames over the years.. and I'm very cynical (and tightfisted) about bike buying..
however.. after killing the most recent steel frame, I saw an ad for a good condition second hand Soul frame, at the right price for me, and curiosity dictated that I should try it to see what all the hype was about..
It's ace, best steel frame that I've ridden.. the geometry is just right..
I have a 2nd gen frame - Orange, from 2005 I think - but it's the mtb I choose to ride most and I've had a few in that time.
Its a brilliant little steel xc/trail frame for 26 inch wheels.
If that is what you are after then yes - its great. I had one, and a 26er Simple. Loved them both. Now I run 29ers.
If you are after something else then not so good.
...overly heavy steel frame being called heavy...
Yes, it's so heavy that practically every other 140mm steel frame is heavier than it.
This thread just gets better 😆
I was just interested to know peoples opinions. They look ok, just seems a lot pf them about!
LOL at Duirdh.....as stated above it depends on what you using the bike for, If I ONLY wanted a XC RACE bike then yes I be right beside you and say it on the heavy side compared to other full on XC race bikse out there that are in carbon/ti/ali you are better off with something else.
But if you compare it to Dh/jump bikes I think you find it's a light bike.
But the soul is not really been sold as a "XC race bike" yes you can race XC on it, if you like do that once in a while etc, (it come down to the legs any way)
But when you put it up against other frames in the same cat, it not that heavy.
Anyway it all down to one person "heavy" can be another person "light"
I love the notion that the Soul is 'heavy' ! FFS, I weighed my (second hand £240 so not expensive) medium size Soul frame, with seat clamp, 1990g. Built up single speed 10.4kg, just fitted gears so a shade over 11 now.
The alloy frame (Cube Ltd) that I'd been riding weighs more, and definitely feels harsher on the trails. It's a good comparison, as the frame geometry's exactly the same.
I couldn't tell you how the Soul compares ride-wise with other steel hardtails, I haven't ridden any. But it's a wonderfully compliant frame that pumps and pops off stuff better than my old Cube IMO.
The two I've tried were ok abut not worth paying 3 times the price of my On-One.
I've only ever had demo rides on a Cotic so my opinion is certainly not definitive.
Worth saying that I come from a mostly HT background, my only FS bikes have been full on XC race bikes so quite spindly and light rather than full on "trail" FS.
I had a great ride in the Peaks on Cy's personal 953 Soul (when he was testing the feasibility of making one in 953 rather than 853) and the bike was superb. Really solid front end that just went where it was pointed and refused to be knocked off line but a really flickable, whippy back end. Super comfy yet just felt fast.
The 853 ones I rode didn't quite have that same bouncy feel but they were just lovely bikes that felt right.
Having said that, I rode a Cotic Hemlock out in the Pyrenees and didn't really like it at all, I just couldn't get the feel for it - no idea why. 🙁
Really solid front end that just went where it was pointed and refused to be knocked off line...
Good forks and handlebars are great aren't they?
What I find amusing is how the likes of Mr Smith gets all excited about people liking a brand, with no mention of actually owning said brand and riding it to justify his opinion. I bought mine 7-8 years ago, just before or after Cy finally decided to make a go of the business as I beleive he was working as an engineer. Thats after riding bikes for over 20 years and working in bike shops for 6 years. I then came into some money and decided to listen to the "marketing hype" as described by Mr Smith and bought a high value, high end aluminium FS and sold my ancient and battered Soul. It lasted 6 months before it broke. I then bought a 2007 secondhand Soul in 2011 and I am now riding it again, loving it and wondering why I even bothered with FS. The Soul is a fantastically made and designed bike for those who are prepared to ride it. The designer is a really nice bloke who also rides and works within the mtb community for improving trail access. I have never found him to be balding or awkward (that's a good description of me) but I admit he is a bike geek, but isn't that why I buy his frames? Wouldn't you enlist an IT geek to fix your PC?
Had many mtb's since 1986 and I'd say its pretty much the best bike I've had. Thought it was all just hype and bullish.t but I tried one and was very impressed so bought one. Set up for the type of riding I do with a leaning towards not to heavy (25ilbs) with a 100 to 140 fork. Handles everything the Dales and Peak has to offer. It's been my bike of choice since the purchase, it a sort of old friend now. In some ways it reminds me of my old Kona Explosif but better in everyway. It's the cheapest frame I have bought in years.
Enjoy the bike not the bullish.t. Have fun and ride
Empty
Good forks and handlebars are great aren't they?
🙂
To be fair, with me being used to lightweight XC race bikes, the forks that were on the Cotic were a whole world of stiffness better than the noodly little SIDs I was used to!
Rob, a Soul frame is heavier than many Alu 4x/dj frames.. No idea why you brought DH frames ito your argument?
Most steel frames are heavy, why is this so difficult for many steel frame owners to accept?
Loving the trolling and the defensive fretters on this thread. I've got an older Soul and i like it, no idea what it weighs, but i do love being 'in' on shit. I was happy to pay the premium for the cotic brand; I'm roadie with loads of pricey foreign carbon, so i liked the British mtb company thing. I wouldn't proclaim i could tell the difference between a gas pipe inbred or any 853 bike, I'm guessing there must be, but compared to my road bikes mtb's always feel inefficient. But they do put a smile on my face.
Folk justify all manner of premium brand stuff on 'performance' grounds and other spurious reasons, but why not? why not spunk your hard earned on something that makes you happy, nowt wrong with some frivolity; it's fun! I ride because I love it, not for anything else.
Sending you all a big sloppy kiss from BaldyGeek Towers.
[subliminal message]Souls are rubbish. You all need to buy Rockets. FS is The Future[/subliminal message]
Marketing Genius = Cy
Let me just add to this [s]Troll[/s] thread. Helmets are life savers and it should be made law to wear one, especially when riding your Cotic Soul 🙄 !!
PS... very happy with my Soul thank you.
Like so much on this forum, people seem to be searching for absolutes, which in the mtb world is impossible really. We all want to be validated by buying 'the right thing' or by not buying what others see as the 'right thing'. It's just a bike. I have one, I like it, you might not. Other steel HTs are available!
Haha. I need to meet you MrSmith. You are my ****ing hero. Let's go for a walk about Soho in our brogues sometime soon.
Rob, a Soul frame is heavier than many Alu 4x/dj frames.. No idea why you brought DH frames ito your argument?
Most steel frames are heavy, why is this so difficult for many steel frame owners to accept?
I hate to bring FACTS into your argument but that's not what google is telling me:
http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=79768&pagenum=1
http://dartmoor-bikes.com/hardware/frames/two6player
But maybe I have the wrong facts?
To answer the OP's question, Yes (for me anyway) It does it's most important job really well..Makes we want to go out and ride it.
But to join the general debate. I bought mine (2nd hand off here) and chose it for a number of reasons, including I really liked what it looked like and that people on here really rated them.
Of the 20 or so people I have been out riding with this week I think 18 of them had not even heard of Cotic (one had one but was not riding it, I found out in the pub) and none of them go on STW. My point being that STW introduced me to a bike I Probably would not have considered, that I love riding.
I would be genuinely interested what similar frames (or if they think Steel is not the way go) people would have in preference to the soul ?
and FWIW I also have an steel Inbred and the Soul to me is worth every extra penny.
you ran off to Google to find an Alu 4x frame that is heavier? 😆 Well done! Doesn't alter the FACT many others are lighter.
Souls are utter rubbish, get a BFe.
I have a Mk1 Soul. I've had it for years and don't really ride any other bikes, and I didn't have a particularly good one before so I can't make any useful comparison with anything else.
Sometimes I set it up singlespeed and sometimes with gears. Mostly I ride on Cannock Chase and often I ride Lakes, Peaks, Scotland Wales, some trail centres and some natural stuff. Some of these trips are 3 dayesr, usually in the depth of winter.
All I know is I often get home knackered but usually finish the ride with a big stupid (59 yr old) grin (except that long cold wet day last month at CYB where it had been pouring the whole 7 hours and we got back in the dark with no lights and my waterproof turned out not to be) and I'm always looking forward to my next ride.
It goes up all the hills I want to ride up and it goes down all the hills I want to ride down, better than me.
I don't really know what more I would want from a bike.
you ran off to Google to find an Alu 4x frame that is heavier? Well done! Doesn't alter the FACT many others are lighter.
No, I ran off to google to find some DJ frame weights. Could you link me to some DJ/4X frames which are lighter? I'd like to see some facts rather than opinions.
Also, unless I've totally misunderstood 4X racing, the bikes are built to be as light as they can get away with for a season of racing, without breaking mid-race. Like a race BMX: Minimum weight and maximum stiffness at the expense of longterm resistance to fatigue failure. Very different to a DJ bike which is strong enough handle frequent crashes or an XC bike which is strong enough to handle countless hours of fatigue cycles.
It's a perfectly good do-it-all steel 26 HT. Is it 'the best'? I don't know I haven't ridden them all. But it's a safe bet to buy though because you know you'll resell it OK. I bought one because I wanted an HT for my first self-build and it was obvious on here that there was critical mass behind it. I bought one because people buy them, to put it another way.
I suspect there is a bit of brand-premium built into the pricing. Fair-dos take it or leave it, we all have a choice.
After having my Mk2 Soul I bought a Dialled Love/Hate - I actually preferred the ride of the L/H, it was a little softer. If the Mk3 Soul is stiffer than the Mk2 it wouldn't be for me. (I have since switched to 29, had there been a Solaris around to demo I would have done).
Cy's a smart guy, good on him.
Souls are utter rubbish, get a BFe
I intend to once they have some stock at BaldyGeek towers, if anyone at the towers is tuned in perhaps they could give us an update on that.
I have had a M1, M2 and currently ahve one of the brand new ones built up. I have ridden a few other steel frames (Blizzard, Handjob, Duster and P7) and much prefer the Soul, I also own a Soda, great frame as well. I also know someone that hated the M2 Soul, I bought it from him and loved it :). I bought a P7 a while back, was told how great it was but hated it, it doesnt make it a bad frame, it just didnt suit me. The person I sold it too raves about it.
Its all personal preference, mines is the Soul, I also have two FS and the Soul or Soda are almost always the bikes I go out on.
They are only overpriced if you dont want to pay that amount. The weight thing, I think it is quite heavy but I am not using it for racing so not that big a deal.
Since when has under £500 quid been expensive for a frame?
COMMUNIQUE FROM BALDYGEEK TOWERS [STOP]
NEW SHIPMENT OF SOUL AND BFE FRAMES ARRIVES TOMORROW [STOP] IF YOU HAVE AN ORDER IN IT SHOULD BE WITH YOU LATE THIS WEEK OR EARLY NEXT [STOP] WE HAVE LOTS OF BACK ORDERS TO GET THROUGH [STOP] WE WILL BE IN TOUCH FOR PAYMENT IF WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE DETAILS [STOP]
[MESSAGE ENDS]
Since On-One inbred's cost about 50 pence new.
cy - Member
COMMUNIQUE FROM BALDYGEEK TOWERS [STOP]NEW SHIPMENT OF SOUL AND BFE FRAMES ARRIVES TOMORROW [STOP] IF YOU HAVE AN ORDER IN IT SHOULD BE WITH YOU LATE THIS WEEK OR EARLY NEXT [STOP] WE HAVE LOTS OF BACK ORDERS TO GET THROUGH [STOP] WE WILL BE IN TOUCH FOR PAYMENT IF WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE DETAILS [STOP]
[MESSAGE ENDS]
Genius... 😆
Communique to BaldyGeek Towers [stop]
Thanks for update [Stop], Debit card at the ready [Stop]
I like mine, I also like my other (different) bikes, you may disagree. Hope that helps.
I loved mine- an absolutely superb allrounder. Only replaced it as I didn't really want an allrounder any more, but I kept comparing everything that followed unfavourably to the Soul, took a lynskey titanium HT to match it. Not bad.
Joe - MemberQuite heavy and lumbering in my opinion
Gwan then, give us some examples of lighter, modern steel frames?
What size Soul/bfe is closest to an 18" Orange Five for a 6ft lad? Looking for a similar top tubes length.
Sorry to go off topic, but being as your all here I may as well ask.
Yeh nice bikes, good CS. I've got a singlespeed one. I like the geometry.
The main reason they're so popular is the way they've marketed, as Mr Smith explains.
If it was a brand like DMR or 24Seven selling them they wouldnt sell anywhere near as many.
godzilla - Member
What size Soul/bfe is closest to an 18" Orange Five for a 6ft lad? Looking for a similar top tubes length.
Sorry to go off topic, but being as your all here I may as well ask.
Just measured both. Mine are exactly the same length TT. But with slightly different set up's Soul has a lay back post and a 50 mm stem. Five has Dropper post ( in line) and a 70 mm stem. So you can get them the same length easily enough. You may want to look at the larger Soul if you don,t want to use a lay back post. ( 68.5 cm from center of post to end of stem)
Cotic soul's are bicycle frames made of steel, onto which bicycle components can be fitted creating what is known as a mountain bike, a bike capable of being ridden in relative comfort and speed on challenging off road terrain (skill, strength and fitness of rider not withstanding). Some people people who have ridden a cotic soul frame fitted with mountain bike components like them and even feel that they are the most pleasing mountain bike they have ridden. Others who have ridden them do not like them. Still others who have never ridden them, for some reason do not like them, and perhaps even more puzzling, some who have not ridden them really like them. Consensus on whether they are any good has thus far proved elusive.
Thinking now on shifting my C456 for a Soul.Mmmmmm, decisions....... 😯
Look if I say they are a good bike they must be, after all know absolutely nothing about bikes.
Know of a few people who have had one,loved it & then sold it.It would also seem a few people on here have had them,loved them & then sold them.......
Dunno about anybody else but I keep the bikes/frames I like.....
Always thought they were an overpriced steel h/tail(like Cove)which is why I've never bothered with them.Rubbish warranty as well..2 years,you're having a laugh..........
Thing is that people want different things from a bike. Some people want out and out VFM, some want a lightweight race bike, some want something strong enough they won't break it etc.
And some people just want a smile on their face when they ride their bike. Which is I think where bikes like the Soul fit in.
To a large extent, a steel hardtail with a 120(ish)mm travel fork on is a compromise, but for most things its such a good compromise that it makes sense to so many people so much of the time. I've not got a Soul (I've nearly bought one a couple of times though), but I do own something very similar, and though its never the perfect bike for any situation, its so much less of a compromise than other bikes are so much of the time that it makes sense.
I like the Soul a lot, my only gripe is that its now (IMO) slightly expensive for what it is compared to some of its competitors, but then again, it has definitely reached a cult status, and has earned an enviable reputation. Thing is, if its the kind of bike that appeals, you'll stump up the cash and you know you'll love it. If it doesn't appeal at all, you'll ride your (insert name of bike here) around, questioning why people rave about the Soul so much. People used to rave about On One Inbreds in a similar way years ago remember, and that's a very similar formula, albeit made from cheaper materials and a lb or so heavier. They're just bikes for riding, over and over and over again.
Only reason I don't own one is cos I was offered something very similar, for less money, and made of Titanium, and I love it! But I'd have bought a Soul otherwise...
BigJohnI don't really know what more I would want from a bike.
That pretty much sums it up for me! When you get past all the bull**** bingo, the Bang-on-Trend geometery stuff, giving 2cents about what size your wheels are, "saving" 23grams on a crankset, how many gears you have, how many gear you haven't got, The length of your stem and how much travel your forks have, making you're own choice about wearing a helmet, and all the other stuff that is discussed and argued about incessantly, it's just about riding a bike!
And there do seem to be an awful lot of people who get a lot of enjoyment from swinging their leg over a soul and just pedalling off with a big smile. The fact that the bike could be "good", "bad" or "heavy" or "light" doesn't even come into it 😉
Dunno about anybody else but I keep the bikes/frames I like.....
Unless you have been made redundant/bought a new model/changed your mind about the colour/ had an injury etc..
Good job there is only black/white. Just imagine if there was a whole world of colour just outside your visible spectrum?
cy - Member
COMMUNIQUE FROM BALDYGEEK TOWERS [STOP]NEW SHIPMENT OF SOUL AND BFE FRAMES ARRIVES TOMORROW [STOP] IF YOU HAVE AN ORDER IN IT SHOULD BE WITH YOU LATE THIS WEEK OR EARLY NEXT [STOP] WE HAVE LOTS OF BACK ORDERS TO GET THROUGH [STOP] WE WILL BE IN TOUCH FOR PAYMENT IF WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE DETAILS [STOP]
[MESSAGE ENDS]
Cheers for the update! Hope my payment goes through for my Bfe! (I'm the guy who tried to remember my card numbers off the top of my head)
p.s. if you send mine out first I promise to tell STW how amazing it is and defend against the haters…
Only reason I don't own one is cos I was offered something very similar, for less money, and made of Titanium
Don't worry, you can buy a Soul when that breaks 😉
Yes they are - swore I'd only ever sell my Soul for a Soda. Or possibly a Solaris. Maybe a Cotic X.....
Cy any chance of a free one? Given all the publicity?
I am amazed at the response this has got. I would like to tryone as I am looking into getting a bike for the commute, but is capable on trails as well. Seems it may be the way to go.
So what colour for a cotic soul?
And forks?
Don't worry, you can buy a Soul when that breaks
Indeed! Pretty much my thought process when I got said frame... Though its holding up pretty well at the moment thanks, probably due to it being Taiwanese rather than US made! 😉
[b]So what colour for a cotic soul?[/b]
Orange.
[b]And forks?[/b]
120mm Rebas.
Hey how about that, there's one for sale: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mk2-cotic-soul-small-orange-full-build
Cheers for the tips on colour and fork choice, but frame too small for me im afraid.
Ash
Yes (for me) my Soul is ace and so is my Simple (funnily enough).
And Mr Baldygeek is a jolly fine chap.
@ash no worries - the RF SixC Carbon Risers are a great match in orange too, and light as a very light thing.
First proper mountain bike I bought was a RM Hammer Race loved it and rode it into the ground.
When it broke I started the quest of buying steel frames to try and find a suitable replacement, nothing came close until the soul.
May not be everyones cup of tea but I would never part with mine, been thru a selection of FS but the soul is always my first choice for nearly every ride.
Thanks Cy...!
Is this country full of sheds containing barely used full-boingers?
emac65 - MemberKnow of a few people who have had one,loved it & then sold it.It would also seem a few people on here have had them,loved them & then sold them.......
Dunno about anybody else but I keep the bikes/frames I like.....
Always thought they were an overpriced steel h/tail(like Cove)which is why I've never bothered with them.Rubbish warranty as well..2 years,you're having a laugh..........
Cotic's warranty length is pretty standard, but their unwarranty's superb- they look after customers out of warranty/second owners etc better than anyone else I've dealt with. Experience has shown me that it's better to have no warranty with Cotic than a warranty with On One, frinstance, or Hope.
I sold my Soul, which I loved, because I wanted something that did things a bit different. No criticism of the Soul.
I owned a mk1 grey soul.
It was heavy but with shortish forks I really liked it. Snapped through the breather hole on the chainstay.
I owned a roadrat too, that one snapped through a dent in the downtube.
They both taught me the lesson of not buying bike bits which you can't afford to replace. 🙁
[b]So what colour for a cotic soul?[/b]
Cappuccino brown
[b]And forks?[/b]
445mm carbon
Love mine. Does everything without fault or fuss. It's the answer to the equation n+1. I don't ever think about needing another bike.
I ran a MK2 Soul for 12 months and loved it, however, it was to small so changed it for a 21" C456
It really was a proper 'fun' machine. It made me smile when ever i rode it. But anything more than 2 hours killed my back
If Cy ever chose to build another batch of XL Souls then i'd have his arm off
However, he mentioned last year that he wouldn't without 10 or so deposits and people on the forum wouldn't put their money where their mouths were...
Awesome riding frames, great brand and lovely looking bikes
Damn my 36" inside legs!! 🙂
Please Cy - build some more.....
In 2010 I bought a Ragley Mmmbop frame. After riding it for a few months, I had to retire her as she was just too harsh! I think my teeth are still rattling 😉 I sold the frame and with the proceeds (plus some extra cash), I decided to buy another frame. After reading many of the fan-boi threads on here about the Soul, I eventually decided to take the plunge and bought a 2nd hand frame in mid 2011. I didn't know what to expect and TBH, after my Mmmbop experience I wasn't expecting much. How wrong could I be. The Soul is a joy to ride (In fact it is way better than I ever expected!). It just suits me. If anything ever happened to her, i would be gutted. Yes i am now a fan-boi and yes whilst it wouldn't suit everybody, I would certainly recommend the Soul. It's the bike I ride the most.