If you get cable discs prepare to be disappointed .. they are nothing like hydraulics really. They might work ok for the first few weeks but in winter they need constant maintenance I found. It’s ok if you don’t value your time and like wasting your evenings trying to work out why your brakes aren’t working .. I’m fairly good mechanically but I found it was soo tedious and it pissed me off as the cable discs aren’t exactly cheap either.
then you're not as good mechanically as you think you are. i have a set of bb7s on my ss that have been on three different frames over the space of about 7 years with the same cables. the cables ( jagwire 'compressionless' ) have been off once and the ends of the outers tidied up, apart from that it's a couple of clicks on adjusters every other ride if that, on a bike that does around 75km/week in all conditions, all year round.
i even have bb7s on my five. i was drinking beer watching mates dick about with their hydros full of air that they've been swearing about all day in the alps, day after day. i did a couple of clicks, oiled the chain, and put the bike in the shed.
also with these, the cables don't heat up and stop the brakes working on hard, long descents...
Got a set of bb7's I run with sram rival 10speed levers. The front is great and easy to set up.
The back brake is posessed by a demon and refuses to be set up properly. It works well for a minute or two after set up and then either rubs the disc or refuses to hold disc.
It might not be posessed It may be my mechanical ineptitude or lack of compressionless cables.
I’d echo some of the comments above; I’ve suffered more pissing around with hydraulics (from Hope and Shimano) on the MTB than with cable discs (BB7s) for no benefit in functionality.
Power wise they're fine, depending on your commute the adjusting might be a huge PITA.
I had some single piston jobs for 18 months, power was fine but I was having to tweak them every 2 weeks, and on a wet commute I could go from having good brakes to pulling to the bar before I got home. I think Spyres would be better, because of the two pistons, but I went for HyRds before Christmas and they're brilliant.
I’d echo some of the comments above; I’ve suffered more pissing around with hydraulics (from Hope and Shimano) on the MTB than with cable discs (BB7s) for no benefit in functionality.
I can't disagree with this more, I'm afraid. Setup and maintained correctly, modern hydraulic brakes should be pretty much maintenance free, apart from when you change pads. There's nothing on this world that would persuade me that mechanical discs are superior in any way, apart from being cheaper (and even that is arguable!)
Just got a new bike with Spyres and I’m struggling to get them to bite.
Mine are fitted with jagwire compressionless cable, shimano organic pads and shimano rotors. It does improve them quite considerably.
Setup and maintained correctly, modern hydraulic brakes should be pretty much maintenance free,
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
TRP hylex (hydros) here, love them. I chose the bike because they had hydros (brifter hydros were new and ridiculously priced)
They're excellent, I love the maintenance free aspect, I use them on my commuter. The maintenance free aspect does mean that you can wear down to metal on the pads without realising it (I replaced my front pads last night after a gruesome ride home made me check the brakes)
They really are good, the levers feel nice too
TRP Spyres on Tiagra levers here. They seem to bring my 100kg bulk to a reliable stop.
One tip: when adjusting for pad wear adjust the grub screws on the sides of the caliper NOT the cable barrel adjusters. This will keep the firmer more powerful lever feel for longer.
If you are out riding and don't want to faff and need to adjust by all means use the cable barrel adjuster but undo and adjust at the caliper when you get back to the warmth of the garage.
TRP Spyres have been great for me. They were improved in going from stock pads to Uber Bikes race matrix pads. Not sure what all this constant adjustment stuff some people talk about is. I might adjust pads once every two or three months.
Same as avdave^^, I don't adjust them that much and with good cables and pads they are excellent. I only do around 5000 miles a year on them though,so maybe if I did a higher mileage I would have more problems. 😉
I only do around 5000 miles a year on them though,so maybe if I did a higher mileage I would have more problems.
I do nearly double that, getting rid of the cable adjustment was well worth the cost for me X-P
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
Difference between servicing and maintaining?
I mean, for comparison, I service my hydraulics bi-yearly (7 or 8 sets), whether they need it or not. Other than that it's just 3 minutes to swap pads once or twice a year, depending on use.
I have to maintain my cable discs (BB5 and BB7) on a regular basis, every few hundred miles, to keep them working well, i *could* leave them months and they would still "work" but not very well.
Oh, and pad swapping needs a bit of planning and some swearing (compared to shimano and hope).
I'd swap to hydraulics tomorrow except it's not a big deal either way.
15-20 minutes once every two years for hydros. While i'm doing bike stuff anyway, and have all the tools to hand, so not a big deal.
3-5 minutes tweaking once a month for cables. While i'm doing bike stuff anyway, and have all the tools to hand, so not a big deal.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
TRP Spyres/Spykes are dual piston with both pistons moving against the rotor.
Echoing what others have said, my experience is that cable discs work OK on the road, but are not perfect, and I would expect to spend a bit more time maintaining them.
I've run discs on my commuter road bike for 15 years. Started with BB7s, which worked OK, but needed regular fiddly trimming and didn't stand up to winter weather very well. They corroded badly and tended to get sticky.
I moved to TRP Hy-Rds a few years ago, which I find much better. The self adjustment means they require less regular maintenance once set up. They can still get a bit sticky around the actuating arm and cable eventually.
Finally taking the plunge and upgrading to full hydro now.
I thought they were all terrible (bb7, spyre) and i'd rather have mini-v's instead. Under powered, fiddly, prone to dirt and moisture ingress into cables and the internals of the caliper (the spyre especially). fwiw, i'm 90kg.
I wouldn't use cable disc again.
Hydraulics much better.
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
My wording was, I admit, poor - all brakes require a certain amount of maintenance to keep them running well and I would classify this as "servicing". For hydraulic brakes, this would typically (for me at least) be an annual check, probably a bleed, possibly a fluid change and a check that the pistons are moving freely, combined with periodic (when I remember!) checks to see that the pads are not worn out. For cable brakes, I would expect to be checking and adjusting the cables after every ride and, in line with gear cables, probably changing them 2-3 times a year depending on use or condition. This is on top of routine lubrication of the moving parts, pad changes and wear-related adjustments.
It must be said that it's down to how comfortable you are working with hydraulic systems. If you wouldn't service them yourself and consider it a "bike shop job" then I can perhaps understand why hydraulic brakes are more of a pain compare to cable brakes, but I suspect many here maintain and service their own hydraulic brakes and appreciate the benefits without the disadvantages.
I'm now down to a couple of sets of cable brakes in the garage (my road bike, and my son's CX race bike) and the rest have gone hydraulic discs and I'm happy that this is one less set of cables to bugger about with.
I’ve got Spyres on my Crosslight.
They’re the best cable brakes I’ve ridden by a country mile. Both pads moving on cable is a game changer. Stock pads and rotors are junk.
Good point. I changed to Avid G3 discs and went to Uber semi sintered pads when the OE ones wore out. The original disc/pads needed a decent amount of bedding in before good brakeage was enjoyed.
Spyres are ace Moly and you'll enjoy the 'take em apart and fiddle' aspect if it's needed. I've read the pad adjusters can seize if used in salty conditions. Mine haven't but they're really easy to service if you do it before they're fkced... 😉
I've got BB7's on my commuter and they're fine. They can be a pain to set up and maybe lack the outright power of hydraulic's but for what you want they're fine.
I've got BB5Rs on my cross bike, I got them because they were cheap and they were compatible with the Tiagra levers I was using, they were OK, that's about the best I can say, they were a bit sponge, and I switched to sintered pads after grinding through the first pair inside of 300 miles, the cable on the rear was susceptible to water ingress but that's just a product of frame layout and using cables rather than a problem with the brake itself, all in all they worked but required maintenance and did not feel as positive as a hydraulic disc or for that matter a well dialled rim caliper.
Then I spotted that PX were selling the avid roller cam kits for BB5s for a quid each and took a flyer, it turned out they were the MTB ones (designed for linear pull/V brake levers) and I swapped my Tiagra levers for tektro RL520 (drop bar V brake levers) and it has made them substantially better IMO, firmer feeling levers, less need to adjust them, generally about what I wanted front a disc brake on a drop barred bike...
So essentially I have turned them into a pair Of MTB cable discs, my commuter has the same RL520 lever with a cheapo tektro caliper (stolen from my missus bike) which also works extremely well, so my experience at the cheap end of the market is that cable pull is the main thing, levers and calipers that pull more cable is what you want for a decent cable disc brake...
Or better yet hydraulics.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
Seriously, don't worry about it, it makes no difference in practice. The BB7 doesn't suffer in any way as a result of moving a single piston. What I would avoid is something like the BB5 with one piston that's not adjustable. Overall I marginally prefer the BB7s to the Spyres, and regardless of how it looks on paper I can't think of any areas where the Spyre wins in practice (maybe the barrel; see below), though any differences are minimal.
One tip: when adjusting for pad wear adjust the grub screws on the sides of the caliper NOT the cable barrel adjusters. This will keep the firmer more powerful lever feel for longer.
This is true, although the barrel is fine to a point and to be honest unless you're getting caked in particularly abrasive grit the barrel will keep you going a long time. The problem with the Spyre piston adjusters IME is that they're extremely sensitive: turning them a few degrees results in a significant change to the pad position, and thus the bite point and the likelihood of that fiff-fiff-fiff skimming of a slightly off-true rotor. Avids seem much less sensitive and are easier to adjust to the right point. (Also it's worth noting that it can be awkward to get an allen key into the inboard piston of the Spyres: with most multitools it just won't happen IME. Then again, the inboard adjuster on the Avids can be a little stiff.)
For cable brakes, I would expect to be checking and adjusting the cables after every ride and, in line with gear cables, probably changing them 2-3 times a year depending on use or condition. This is on top of routine lubrication of the moving parts, pad changes and wear-related adjustments.
I've been using cable brakes for 17 years and I've done literally none of that other than adjusting for pad wear, which is trivial (though certain combinations of geology and pad compound do result in rapid wear, but if you're local to abrasive geology then you just buy different pads). They've been pretty much fit-and-forget for me.
Seriously, don’t worry about it, it makes no difference in practice. The BB7 doesn’t suffer in any way as a result of moving a single piston. What I would avoid is something like the BB5 with one piston that’s not adjustable.
...
I’ve been using cable brakes for 17 years and I’ve done literally none of that other than adjusting for pad wear, which is trivial (though certain combinations of geology and pad compound do result in rapid wear, but if you’re local to abrasive geology then you just buy different pads). They’ve been pretty much fit-and-forget for me.
Wot Bez sed.
Point of note: whenever you see people continually arguing energetically about whether Thing A or Thing B is the better Thing, it's usually a sign that they're both about as good a Thing as each other, and any differences are wildly overstated personal preferences. If you see a real correlation between your own circumstances and those of the people dissing Thing A then go for Thing B, but otherwise it's human nature to react entirely disproportionately to the most minor differences.
No it's not.
Yes it is!
Is this just the five minutes or the full half hour? 🙂
+1 to most of that @Bez. I found with the BB7s that you really needed to use the torx bolt rather than the red thumb wheel.
BB7 calipers are slightly narrower than the Spyres - I've had a little spoke contact with the latter. Wider or different profile to the caliper body I'm not totally sure.
Both brakes are powerful enough to lock the wheels without undue pressure at the levers and send me OTB so they are good enough for most if not all road usage. They aren't quite one finger on the lever in the way that hydraulic brakes are but so what?
Going from really good to not good isn't instant - you are going to be adjusting the pads long before things reach that point.
contradiction is next door
No it isn't
Yes it is,pull this cable.
Instructions unclear: hydraulic fluid all over my shoes.
That ain't hydraulic fluid 😉
