Given how expensive hydro discs are, considering cable discs.
You're an intelligent guy with a modicum of mechanical sympathy. You'll find that, once set up, they are just fine. I've survived many years and many thousands of miles with BB7s and they're not even the best mechanical brakes.
They're fine by me, no complaints.
Have them on my CX and they're just about as powerful as the hydros on my road bike (and a lot less noisy!)
Main difference is you don't get the same smooth precision feel, and you'll have to adjust them as pads wear. 1st world problems. They work just fine.
All of the above.
You’re an intelligent guy with a modicum of mechanical sympathy.
You charmer 🙂
That's good to know thanks folks. Mulling over adding a disc mount to my commuter and putting these on it. Fed up of Vs. Hate the black paste everywhere and the worn rims.
I have ultegra disc, force disc and spyres with force levers.
absolutely no issues with the performance of spyres when used with shimano pads.
Lever feel is actually the nicest of of the three.
Is cable pull the same as standard traditional road levers?
Is cable pull the same as standard traditional road levers?
My Spyres work just fine on my CX bike with 105 10 speed levers, I did fit the TRP compression-less cable kit too.
They're certainly powerful enough to haul me to a stop on the 3 Peaks descents
Yup, Spyres and BB7s working fine with Tiagra, 105 and Ultegra levers here. Get good cable; of the ones I've tried, I'd recommend Ashima.
I had some spyres on my giant tcx, they worked well when new but after a few weeks became quite stiff. Replaced the cable and the same happened. Removed the internal routing and ran it externally at it worked fine since for some reason. Cable discs are fine.
There are different versions for road and mtb
TRP-Spyres=Road.Spykes=Mtb
Sram have different BB5/7 road and Mtb calipers
Shimano Cx77 and R317 for road,M515 for Mtb
Better than calipers and worse than hydros. Which is what I expected.
I've run spyres on Sora levers, and currently running a BB7 with an 11 speed 105 lever, and some cheapo caliper with a 9 speed 105 lever on my commuter/ winter bike. All do their intended job well. I'm currently running the front without compressionless cable, I quite like the bit of squish, but it wouldn't be clever on the rear. Luckily I also have mismatched wheels to further confuse the eyes!
Had BB7 Roads with SRAM Force levers on a bike from 2011; once set up they're fine, bit fiddly to get set right but way better than rim brakes when you're out in the rain and grit.
Just got a new road bike with hydro discs and yes they feel much nicer to use but I'd still consider cable discs if I was after a cheaper set up.
As long as you're happy to keep on top of the adjustments they're fine.
For me, it took a while to get them set up ok (trying different pads/cables etc) but they were never terrible. The keeping them adjusted got boring though - it's not a big job but its more work than turning a barrel adjuster.
Pretty certain, based on manufacturer's weights anyway, that a good cable disc setup is lighter than a good hydro set up.
I know it's not cool to worry about weight any more, but it's pretty satisfying when the lighter alternative also saves you money etc.
I also find less guesswork required when setting up and adjusting, no need to try and work around sticky pistons etc (new hydros on my dad's bike required some fairly agricultural adjustment to compensate for uneven piston movement from new).
BB7s were fine for me on my CX race bike and are still fine on my commuting bike.
Heavier and not as good as the hydros on my latest CX bike but better than cantis or calipers. The nice thing about hydros is that they stay "crisp/sharp" like when you first install them. No cable wear or firction build up.
I think my commuting bike will stay cabled while they are cheaper. Performance/weight not a massive concern, mainly rim wear.
My winter roadie (old cx bike) will stay cabled but if it gets replaced I'll see about pricing and availability on lower end group sets. Again this is more about rim wear and consistency than out and out performance.
The keeping them adjusted got boring though – it’s not a big job but its more work than turning a barrel adjuster.
In the case of the Spyres that's exactly what it is, at least until the pads are severely worn.
I've BB7s on my single speed (used to be my commuter) and fat bike and TRP spyres on my current commuter. Both have the ability to send me OTB so braking power isn't an issue.
It's worth having some long T-handled hex and torx keys to get to the wheel side adjusters. Getting them set up isn't too hard, a bit more involved than hydro brakes but once you've got them properly centred then it's just an occasional quarter turn of the adjusters to move the pads inwards. After a particularly grotty set of rides it's worth checking the pads for uneven wear and resetting accordingly.
Overall I probably spend less time fettling them than I spend checking tyre pressures and checking the tyres for foreign objects. Like many similar jobs, the first couple of times working on them takes longer than you'd like but once you know what to do rather than keep checking instructions on the web then it's a couple of minutes each end.
My BB5's on Claris levers as ok. The front is probably about the same as a well set-up canti/caliper in the dry, but is also consistently that in the wet.
The rear, however, is HORRENDOUS. Totally unable to lock the rear wheel in any conditions. Which I think is down to full length, internally routed, basic OEM Shimano outer cable, with a break near the tops for an inline adjuster (used to have cross-tops). You can feel the squish in the lever while the caliper arm barely moves!
I reckon a set of compressionless cables is a must for road discs, at least for the rear. MTB ones are less sensitive to it due to grater cable pull.
Budget for decent cables too, is my advice. And the BB5 has a tiny pad area compared to BB7/shimano pads, so avoid those specific calipers. I'm considering swapping cables/calipers out for compressionless and Shimano R317's...
This cable from Charlie The Bikemonger is great, I have it on my BB7s on the roady and MTB:
Compressionless is a big help - I've had Spyres and HY/RD, now on Ultegra hydro, but I only swapped as the LBS offered me a deal & trade in. Organic pads too for me, they don't wear so badly, but bed in and wear in better.
Found spyres are fine but took ages to bed in.
<stealthad>I have a nearly new pair of Shimano Sora R317 mechanical brakes going (just haven't got around to listing them yet) if you're insterested. £30 the pair.</stealthad>
Well I wasn't planning on implementing this just yet.. but it's tempting 🙂
Set up matters a bit more ime, you may end up adjusting cable discs slightly more often too.
i use hayes cx brakes on my cx bike, with 160/160 rotors, no problem stopping me (20 stone) and touring luggage.
there is plenty of power and a pleasingly firm feel at the (10spd 105) lever.
with cable brakes you can also force the pad/rotor gap to be a little bigger if you need to for the conditions, such as muddy. wet winter conditions, so they don't grind so much.
With hydro you are generally stuck with what they want the gap to be, whch is why Shiimano with their servo-wave system is a decent idea.
I too run 105 with 10 speed levers and disc brakes. They work fine for me, and on the roads, tracks and non road routes I generally take work far better than rim brakes. Haven't noticed any problems with lack of feel or adjustment. They seem to me to be just right for the job.
Having run cable discs on my road bike for about 6k miles (BB5road and R317) on campag levers, they are OK. For average riding they did just fine and where markedly better once I swapped to compressionless cable outer. The adjustment can be a pain as it can be a fine balance between effective braking and lever throw - but that might be because of the campag levers? Spyres seem to be a good compromise due to the dual piston action and easy adjustment. You could always consider TRP Hy-rds or Juintech R1 cable actuated hydro calipers.
I've gone full hydro now with RS685s (2nd hand on the cheap/Deore calipers), and although the pads haven't bedded in fully, the feel and power is a lot better than before.
I've run Avid BB5, BB7 and latterly BB7 SL for over ten years on "road" bikes, usually with 105 cable levers.
I now also have Ultegra hydro levers (R8020) and calipers (R785 - post mount compatible) on a second bike... The difference in feel and performance is night and day, even over the BB7 SLs with new pads and cables.
There's no doubt that I'll upgrade my commuter to 105-level hydros when it's cost effective to do so.
No. But can be fiddly, faffy, prone to going 'out of tune' and susceptible to shi**y riding (winter commuting) conditions.
I've had BB5s that haven't been that powerful, and the adjustment dial siezed so had to bin them. Cheap Promax originally on my Hack, which were underwhelming at best. Currently got TRP Spyre on the front / Shimano CX on the back, work well and are powerful when set up but lose performance as they wear (despite adjusting the pads) and the Spyre in particular has been prone to seizing / becoming stiff this winter. Mate's London Road that I was looking after for a year had BB7s which were consistently very good (but did freeze up during a couple of sub-zero rides)
By contrast, my Pickenflick, which has SRAM Rival HRD is night and day better than all the cable disc brakes on my other bikes, and notably better than the BB7s on my mate's bike ... The original organic pads didn't last long through a few wet gritty muddy rides, but since replacing with semi-metallic, have been excellent (so far).
If you really only have a few quid, cable disc brakes are probably worth it (and I've 'made do' for years) but if you can find a way to get the extra money together, it's a no-brainer in my view.
if you can find a way to get the extra money together, it’s a no-brainer in my view.
Well it's a £400 ten year old bike so £300 on brakes is a bit disproportionate 🙂
I have Spyres with 5800 levers on a couple of bikes and some wierd Protec Renders on Versa 8's. The Spyres are great. I've tried BB7's as well and I wouldn't bother with any that don't adjust both sides for ease of set up.
I’m going to buck the trend here as in my opinion mechanical disc brakes are shyte!
Ive had TRP Spyre and very expensive Paul Components Clampers.
Braking power is okay - on par/slightly better than rim brakes, but they need constant adjustment.
I would never have them again - they have the weight of hydros and none of the benefits. Personally I’d rather have rim brakes.
Next disc I get will be Ultegra hydro.
Just got a new bike with Spyres and I'm struggling to get them to bite. Probably just a matter of decent set up and bedding in but any tips would be appreciated. First time with cable discs here.
I've had 2 sets on road bikes, both lower end. Bb5s and promax render r's. Both are not very good at all..
I have been assured on here however that more expensive ones are fine as others have said above. From what I've heard I'd happily use the spyres
Well it’s a £400 ten year old bike so £300 on brakes is a bit disproportionate
If it's a commuter/hack bike then I'd say the expense/hassle probably isn't worth it, unless you also have the wheels/discs etc lying around. Once you've forked out for all the extra wee bits (good cables/outer, etc) then the cost of them can add up a bit.
I've had 2 sets of cable discs (Topeak Lyra, TRP Spyre). The lyras were total shit I can't believe I put up with them for so long. The spyres weren't much better really.
Converted to TRP Hylex (hydraulics) and wow what a difference - performance is great and you never have to adjust them. WFM. I'm never going back to cables on any of my bikes it's just an exercise in frustration on pretty much a weekly basis. I appreciate hydros are more money but the cost is totally worth it.
If BB7s or Spyres aren't performing well, the problem lies in the cable, the cable run, or the brake lever.
I’ve got Spyres on my Crosslight.
They’re the best cable brakes I’ve ridden by a country mile. Both pads moving on cable is a game changer. Stock pads and rotors are junk.
I would swap them for Hydraulic if an outstanding deal happened, but I wouldn’t necessarily expect improvements in performance, just convenience.
If you get cable discs prepare to be disappointed .. they are nothing like hydraulics really. They might work ok for the first few weeks but in winter they need constant maintenance I found. It's ok if you don't value your time and like wasting your evenings trying to work out why your brakes aren't working .. I'm fairly good mechanically but I found it was soo tedious and it pissed me off as the cable discs aren't exactly cheap either.
I managed to pick up the TRP Hylex brakes (replacement for the spyres) for £185 F+R which was a total bargain really. I have SRAM Hydros on my other road bike, SRAM Guide on one of my mountain bikes and Hope Minis on the other. All work really well.
Like I say I'd borrow/beg/steal my way to hydraulics over cables every time, but I do a decent amount of miles and use my bikes daily ... and just want them to work properly most of the time.
Spyres were fine until going got fast and steep then I found they needed a lot more effort to slow me down, especially quickly for tight bends. Hydraulic 785s are so much better, easy controlled one finger braking, is night and day. Best upgrade I made to my Defy. Watch for deals and it can be a cheap upgrade as the Spyres and shifters sell easily. I'd never buy a mechanical disc brake bike again. I paid about £250 for my 785s from Merlin a couple of years ago and sold the Spyres and 105 shifters for £125.
Spyres on cx with campag Daytona shifters here. The pads are sintered I think and they are great. Lots of bite and power. Perhaps a bit grabby compared to hydro, but nothing bad, but I’m not willing to pay the price for road hydros and cover them in mud and filth every week.
I find adjustment easy with both pads being able to be adjusted and they stay in true well.
Had some semi-hydro before which I didn’t like - much prefer full mechanical.
TRP Spyres have been great for me. They were improved in going from stock pads to Uber Bikes race matrix pads. Not sure what all this constant adjustment stuff some people talk about is. I might adjust pads once every two or three months. But then maybe being less than 60 kg has something to do with that 🙂
If you get cable discs prepare to be disappointed .. they are nothing like hydraulics really. They might work ok for the first few weeks but in winter they need constant maintenance I found. It’s ok if you don’t value your time and like wasting your evenings trying to work out why your brakes aren’t working .. I’m fairly good mechanically but I found it was soo tedious and it pissed me off as the cable discs aren’t exactly cheap either.
then you're not as good mechanically as you think you are. i have a set of bb7s on my ss that have been on three different frames over the space of about 7 years with the same cables. the cables ( jagwire 'compressionless' ) have been off once and the ends of the outers tidied up, apart from that it's a couple of clicks on adjusters every other ride if that, on a bike that does around 75km/week in all conditions, all year round.
i even have bb7s on my five. i was drinking beer watching mates dick about with their hydros full of air that they've been swearing about all day in the alps, day after day. i did a couple of clicks, oiled the chain, and put the bike in the shed.
also with these, the cables don't heat up and stop the brakes working on hard, long descents...
Got a set of bb7's I run with sram rival 10speed levers. The front is great and easy to set up.
The back brake is posessed by a demon and refuses to be set up properly. It works well for a minute or two after set up and then either rubs the disc or refuses to hold disc.
It might not be posessed It may be my mechanical ineptitude or lack of compressionless cables.
I’d echo some of the comments above; I’ve suffered more pissing around with hydraulics (from Hope and Shimano) on the MTB than with cable discs (BB7s) for no benefit in functionality.
Power wise they're fine, depending on your commute the adjusting might be a huge PITA.
I had some single piston jobs for 18 months, power was fine but I was having to tweak them every 2 weeks, and on a wet commute I could go from having good brakes to pulling to the bar before I got home. I think Spyres would be better, because of the two pistons, but I went for HyRds before Christmas and they're brilliant.
I’d echo some of the comments above; I’ve suffered more pissing around with hydraulics (from Hope and Shimano) on the MTB than with cable discs (BB7s) for no benefit in functionality.
I can't disagree with this more, I'm afraid. Setup and maintained correctly, modern hydraulic brakes should be pretty much maintenance free, apart from when you change pads. There's nothing on this world that would persuade me that mechanical discs are superior in any way, apart from being cheaper (and even that is arguable!)
Just got a new bike with Spyres and I’m struggling to get them to bite.
Mine are fitted with jagwire compressionless cable, shimano organic pads and shimano rotors. It does improve them quite considerably.
Setup and maintained correctly, modern hydraulic brakes should be pretty much maintenance free,
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
TRP hylex (hydros) here, love them. I chose the bike because they had hydros (brifter hydros were new and ridiculously priced)
They're excellent, I love the maintenance free aspect, I use them on my commuter. The maintenance free aspect does mean that you can wear down to metal on the pads without realising it (I replaced my front pads last night after a gruesome ride home made me check the brakes)
They really are good, the levers feel nice too
TRP Spyres on Tiagra levers here. They seem to bring my 100kg bulk to a reliable stop.
One tip: when adjusting for pad wear adjust the grub screws on the sides of the caliper NOT the cable barrel adjusters. This will keep the firmer more powerful lever feel for longer.
If you are out riding and don't want to faff and need to adjust by all means use the cable barrel adjuster but undo and adjust at the caliper when you get back to the warmth of the garage.
TRP Spyres have been great for me. They were improved in going from stock pads to Uber Bikes race matrix pads. Not sure what all this constant adjustment stuff some people talk about is. I might adjust pads once every two or three months.
Same as avdave^^, I don't adjust them that much and with good cables and pads they are excellent. I only do around 5000 miles a year on them though,so maybe if I did a higher mileage I would have more problems. 😉
I only do around 5000 miles a year on them though,so maybe if I did a higher mileage I would have more problems.
I do nearly double that, getting rid of the cable adjustment was well worth the cost for me X-P
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
Difference between servicing and maintaining?
I mean, for comparison, I service my hydraulics bi-yearly (7 or 8 sets), whether they need it or not. Other than that it's just 3 minutes to swap pads once or twice a year, depending on use.
I have to maintain my cable discs (BB5 and BB7) on a regular basis, every few hundred miles, to keep them working well, i *could* leave them months and they would still "work" but not very well.
Oh, and pad swapping needs a bit of planning and some swearing (compared to shimano and hope).
I'd swap to hydraulics tomorrow except it's not a big deal either way.
15-20 minutes once every two years for hydros. While i'm doing bike stuff anyway, and have all the tools to hand, so not a big deal.
3-5 minutes tweaking once a month for cables. While i'm doing bike stuff anyway, and have all the tools to hand, so not a big deal.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
TRP Spyres/Spykes are dual piston with both pistons moving against the rotor.
Echoing what others have said, my experience is that cable discs work OK on the road, but are not perfect, and I would expect to spend a bit more time maintaining them.
I've run discs on my commuter road bike for 15 years. Started with BB7s, which worked OK, but needed regular fiddly trimming and didn't stand up to winter weather very well. They corroded badly and tended to get sticky.
I moved to TRP Hy-Rds a few years ago, which I find much better. The self adjustment means they require less regular maintenance once set up. They can still get a bit sticky around the actuating arm and cable eventually.
Finally taking the plunge and upgrading to full hydro now.
I thought they were all terrible (bb7, spyre) and i'd rather have mini-v's instead. Under powered, fiddly, prone to dirt and moisture ingress into cables and the internals of the caliper (the spyre especially). fwiw, i'm 90kg.
I wouldn't use cable disc again.
Hydraulics much better.
So you have to maintain them correctly for them to be maintenance free? I is confuzzled.
My wording was, I admit, poor - all brakes require a certain amount of maintenance to keep them running well and I would classify this as "servicing". For hydraulic brakes, this would typically (for me at least) be an annual check, probably a bleed, possibly a fluid change and a check that the pistons are moving freely, combined with periodic (when I remember!) checks to see that the pads are not worn out. For cable brakes, I would expect to be checking and adjusting the cables after every ride and, in line with gear cables, probably changing them 2-3 times a year depending on use or condition. This is on top of routine lubrication of the moving parts, pad changes and wear-related adjustments.
It must be said that it's down to how comfortable you are working with hydraulic systems. If you wouldn't service them yourself and consider it a "bike shop job" then I can perhaps understand why hydraulic brakes are more of a pain compare to cable brakes, but I suspect many here maintain and service their own hydraulic brakes and appreciate the benefits without the disadvantages.
I'm now down to a couple of sets of cable brakes in the garage (my road bike, and my son's CX race bike) and the rest have gone hydraulic discs and I'm happy that this is one less set of cables to bugger about with.
I’ve got Spyres on my Crosslight.
They’re the best cable brakes I’ve ridden by a country mile. Both pads moving on cable is a game changer. Stock pads and rotors are junk.
Good point. I changed to Avid G3 discs and went to Uber semi sintered pads when the OE ones wore out. The original disc/pads needed a decent amount of bedding in before good brakeage was enjoyed.
Spyres are ace Moly and you'll enjoy the 'take em apart and fiddle' aspect if it's needed. I've read the pad adjusters can seize if used in salty conditions. Mine haven't but they're really easy to service if you do it before they're fkced... 😉
I've got BB7's on my commuter and they're fine. They can be a pain to set up and maybe lack the outright power of hydraulic's but for what you want they're fine.
I've got BB5Rs on my cross bike, I got them because they were cheap and they were compatible with the Tiagra levers I was using, they were OK, that's about the best I can say, they were a bit sponge, and I switched to sintered pads after grinding through the first pair inside of 300 miles, the cable on the rear was susceptible to water ingress but that's just a product of frame layout and using cables rather than a problem with the brake itself, all in all they worked but required maintenance and did not feel as positive as a hydraulic disc or for that matter a well dialled rim caliper.
Then I spotted that PX were selling the avid roller cam kits for BB5s for a quid each and took a flyer, it turned out they were the MTB ones (designed for linear pull/V brake levers) and I swapped my Tiagra levers for tektro RL520 (drop bar V brake levers) and it has made them substantially better IMO, firmer feeling levers, less need to adjust them, generally about what I wanted front a disc brake on a drop barred bike...
So essentially I have turned them into a pair Of MTB cable discs, my commuter has the same RL520 lever with a cheapo tektro caliper (stolen from my missus bike) which also works extremely well, so my experience at the cheap end of the market is that cable pull is the main thing, levers and calipers that pull more cable is what you want for a decent cable disc brake...
Or better yet hydraulics.
So which cable brakes have two moving pistons then?
Seriously, don't worry about it, it makes no difference in practice. The BB7 doesn't suffer in any way as a result of moving a single piston. What I would avoid is something like the BB5 with one piston that's not adjustable. Overall I marginally prefer the BB7s to the Spyres, and regardless of how it looks on paper I can't think of any areas where the Spyre wins in practice (maybe the barrel; see below), though any differences are minimal.
One tip: when adjusting for pad wear adjust the grub screws on the sides of the caliper NOT the cable barrel adjusters. This will keep the firmer more powerful lever feel for longer.
This is true, although the barrel is fine to a point and to be honest unless you're getting caked in particularly abrasive grit the barrel will keep you going a long time. The problem with the Spyre piston adjusters IME is that they're extremely sensitive: turning them a few degrees results in a significant change to the pad position, and thus the bite point and the likelihood of that fiff-fiff-fiff skimming of a slightly off-true rotor. Avids seem much less sensitive and are easier to adjust to the right point. (Also it's worth noting that it can be awkward to get an allen key into the inboard piston of the Spyres: with most multitools it just won't happen IME. Then again, the inboard adjuster on the Avids can be a little stiff.)
For cable brakes, I would expect to be checking and adjusting the cables after every ride and, in line with gear cables, probably changing them 2-3 times a year depending on use or condition. This is on top of routine lubrication of the moving parts, pad changes and wear-related adjustments.
I've been using cable brakes for 17 years and I've done literally none of that other than adjusting for pad wear, which is trivial (though certain combinations of geology and pad compound do result in rapid wear, but if you're local to abrasive geology then you just buy different pads). They've been pretty much fit-and-forget for me.
Seriously, don’t worry about it, it makes no difference in practice. The BB7 doesn’t suffer in any way as a result of moving a single piston. What I would avoid is something like the BB5 with one piston that’s not adjustable.
...
I’ve been using cable brakes for 17 years and I’ve done literally none of that other than adjusting for pad wear, which is trivial (though certain combinations of geology and pad compound do result in rapid wear, but if you’re local to abrasive geology then you just buy different pads). They’ve been pretty much fit-and-forget for me.
Wot Bez sed.
Point of note: whenever you see people continually arguing energetically about whether Thing A or Thing B is the better Thing, it's usually a sign that they're both about as good a Thing as each other, and any differences are wildly overstated personal preferences. If you see a real correlation between your own circumstances and those of the people dissing Thing A then go for Thing B, but otherwise it's human nature to react entirely disproportionately to the most minor differences.
No it's not.
Yes it is!
Is this just the five minutes or the full half hour? 🙂
+1 to most of that @Bez. I found with the BB7s that you really needed to use the torx bolt rather than the red thumb wheel.
BB7 calipers are slightly narrower than the Spyres - I've had a little spoke contact with the latter. Wider or different profile to the caliper body I'm not totally sure.
Both brakes are powerful enough to lock the wheels without undue pressure at the levers and send me OTB so they are good enough for most if not all road usage. They aren't quite one finger on the lever in the way that hydraulic brakes are but so what?
Going from really good to not good isn't instant - you are going to be adjusting the pads long before things reach that point.
contradiction is next door
No it isn't
Yes it is,pull this cable.
Instructions unclear: hydraulic fluid all over my shoes.
That ain't hydraulic fluid 😉