[Closed] Are 26ers a dying breed?

I think it's interesting that (and potentially telling) that Spesh haven't released a 650b model for 2013

But they have as good as given up on 26" wheels: no Stumpjumper/S-Works hardtails, no Epics, no Stumpy FSRs (except the Evo).

But they have as good as given up on 26" wheels: no Stumpjumper/S-Works hardtails, no Epics, no Stumpy FSRs (except the Evo).

So they've moved to 29 for all their XC and trail bikes - no surprise. However they retain 26 for dirt jump, downhill, and all-mountain rigs. That's hardly dumping 26. It just shows Spesh also think 26 is for more aggressive riding.

Why did we end up with VHS over Betamax?

Very interesting thoughts on PinkBike related to 29ers:

"...before the 29er can sprout longer legs, it will have to develop some big-wheel-specific component standards - some of which exist and others that must be invented. Breaking through the 29er travel
barrier will require a redesign of many major components: Wider bottom bracket shells and crank spacing to move the chain-line outwards in order to make room for wider tires and shorter chain stays. Zero-offset crankarms to return the Q-factor back to normal. Wider rear-axle spacing (probably 145mm) to move the cassette cogs in line with the chainring and wider hub-flange spacing to reduce the spoke angle and strengthen the wheel. Up front, wider hub flanges may require a wider axle and fork crown metrics. Heavy wheels are already a thorn in the side of the 29er, so to keep the weight down, wider, lightweight carbon rims, and tires with wide, aggressive tread and low-profile sidewalls must be considered. Because the front derailleur swings into the exact spot that the tire must occupy, SRAM's XXI drivetrain is tailor-made for the new 29er - long-travel plus big wheels equals no front mech. Other component makers will be pressured to follow. Where the big trouble occurs for the long-travel 29er, however, is that suspension designers must figure out a way to keep the bike's chain stays short enough to ensure proper handling, and still figure out a way to arc the wheel away from the rider's butt when the saddle is slammed..."

When I've ridden my 26er into the ground I'd like to try a 29er with all those future improvements!

Sounds like a pain in the arse, i think the manufacturers will keep 29ers for XC and for selling to people who want to ride along canal paths and keep 26ers for crashing down hills....650b is intriguing though, Saracen do a 130mm 650b hardtail, it could be the perfect middle ground, i dont get the 29 inch early adopters anti stance towards 650b?
If 29 inch wheels do end up being too much of a pain in the arse to fit into decent gravity bikes then 650b is the natural plan-b for those who like larger wheels surely?

So am I allowed to really like my 29er or not?

Not until you get some peer reviewed scientific data to prove its 10% faster over rough terrain and 5% more efficient for a given energy output
And a pic of all the laydees who have swooned at your mere passing..
And non of the wheels haven't exploded for at least 48 hours.

So am I allowed to really like my 29er or not?

So they've moved to 29 for all their XC and trail bikes - no surprise. However they retain 26 for dirt jump, downhill, and all-mountain rigs. That's hardly dumping 26. It just shows Spesh also think 26 is for more aggressive riding.

I'm so bored of people saying 29" bikes aren't as fast downhill or AM and DH bikes would have them etc. You can't engineer 200mm of travel around 29" wheels without huge wheelbases. That is the reason why, not because they aren't suited to more agressive riding. A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails. I'm sure when the 29 " Enduro arrives the 26" version will disappear within a year or two. As it is I think a 29" Evo would run a 26" Enduro really close on any descent and it'd destroy it when you hit a tech climb or flat rutted section.

The advantages of geo around 29" wheels are obvious. Specialized's position is it worth getting rid of 26" and changing everything for just over 27" when it doesn't have the advantages of 29". If you're gonna change, make it worth it.

Surely the main reason 26" MTB's will not die out is the fact that so many people have them.
Ok sure a load of bikes are becoming 29" or 27.5". But until they are being sold everywhere and are proven to keep going without the wheels buckling all the time then I don't expect to see the 26" MTB die.

As others have said, its yet another sales thing for the big manufacturers. Give it 3 years and everyone will be raving about 26" wheels again.

Seriously though who gives a s*** if 29ers are faster or not, unless you are racing then get over yourselves. MTB's are fun thats why we ride them, and I cannot see a different wheel size being more fun than others.

Spesh also think 26 is for more aggressive riding.

A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails.

Presumably by that you mean it would be faster. No idea whether that is true, but even if it were its pretty irrelevant. Most of us are riding round in circles for fun. If a 29er is more fun than my 26" bike then I'm in. But so far none of the ones I've tried have been.

deviant.....this 29er likes crashing downhills 😀

[IMG] [/IMG]

You can't engineer 200mm of travel around 29" wheels without huge wheelbases

Which proves the limitations of 29". It's pointless without being able to put the geometry around the wheels which is why it it very unlikely to ever move into the freeride/downhill scene. 29" wheels are also weaker for aggressive riding unless they're built like a tank, in which case you're carrying even more unnecessary extra weight. All negative points - and they're likely to steer like a barge.

A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails.

Popped into my local ASDA on my way home tonight after swimming to grab a quick snack, one chiller cabinet happened to be full of goods on special offer at 50p, I kindly asked the the guy stacking the shelves if I could please squeeze past to get a peperami and instead of simply allowing me past told me "the fridge raiders are nicer", I laughed and said "not if you prefer Peperami they're not!".. to which he replied, "but the Fridge raiders are healthier, 100% chicken!".. I laughed and said "ha ha.. you think that's chicken?"
****ing dumbass'd fit in well here!

You can't engineer 200mm of travel around 29" wheels without huge wheelbases

A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails.I call bullpoo

A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails

Another crack smoker. Do you see any 29'ers on the enduro circuit? No. Why? Because they are not as good as 26 inch wheels on "rowdy trails"

Perhaps the rowdy trails you are talking about are the sort of thing you find at a trail centre?

Do you see any 29'ers on the enduro circuit

I'm getting bored of contradicting people with actual facts now.Can you all do a little research before posting please xxx.

WTF is wrong with you lot? Just ride a bike and enjoy it, if you put as much energy into riding that you do arguing over wheel size I'm sure you'd all be better riders whatever it is you're sat on

But Moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!
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Rob Cooksley did o'k last year on a Tracer 29 I think
I'm getting bored of contradicting people with actual facts now.Can you all do a little research before posting please xxx.

The actual fact that one guy rides enduro on a 29'er? I can probably find one guy who races xc on 26" wheels and proclaim they are better.

When 29'ers become the norm on the enduro circuit I will believe they are as good for aggressive riding. After all, racers ride what gives them the edge, rather than what they have been lead to believe 😉

I'm not anti 29'ers, I just cannot stand the bullshit that they are some mystical thing that is going to kill off 26 inch wheels.

Its 99% rider 1% bike , I'd be slow on them all 😀

top class rider would make a GT fast

29ers will always be a bit shit, a bit like a dawes galaxy, just for nerds.

JCL - Member

So they've moved to 29 for all their XC and trail bikes - no surprise. However they retain 26 for dirt jump, downhill, and all-mountain rigs. That's hardly dumping 26. It just shows Spesh also think 26 is for more aggressive riding.

I'm so bored of people saying 29" bikes aren't as fast downhill or AM and DH bikes would have them etc. You can't engineer 200mm of travel around 29" wheels without huge wheelbases. That is the reason why, not because they aren't suited to more agressive riding.

You're forgetting the fact that DH wheels need to be stronger, 29er DH wheels would need to be massively heavy - larger 2ply tryres, super strong spokes, or have massive flange diametres and/or a bigger hub standards to cope with the stresses. All that extra weight would compound the problems of slower deceleration, and acceleration, which would also cause problems with braking on steeper longer DH tracks. There is no proper 2ply dh tyre available. Added to the fact no major manufacturer makes a DH fork that will accommodate a 29" wheel, added to the fact it would raise stack height massively if they did, ruining the geometry.

The advantages of geo around 29" wheels are obvious.

Rorschach

Rob Cooksley did o'k last year on a Tracer 29 I think (1st at cyb,3rd at dyfi,4th at eastridge....and he's a master as well).

I'm getting bored of contradicting people with actual facts now.Can you all do a little research before posting please xxx.

How come he didn't dominate everything? He's on a much faster bike with much more grip that rolls more easily and feels as iff it's got 50% more travel? We all know some guy won a road race in South Africa years back on an MTB. 26" wheels to boot. Does that stand as proof mountain bikes are faster on the road than road bikes, or was it down to the rider? You've contradicted dick all mate.

A good 110mm 29" will wipe the floor with a 140mm 26" on rowdy trails.

Then you've never ridden a "rowdy" trail. Ever. I think you've just outed yourself as a complete fantasist, frankly, it's people like you, spouting complete twaddle about things they clearly do not understand that are making so many people frustrated. Then again, you're a salesman's dream I would imagine. I don't think I'll be engaging in any more debates with you. Pointless really.

spouting complete twaddle about things they clearly do not understand that are making so many people frustrated.

i think you're the most frustrated given your recent posts, as i said, ride your bike and stop worrying what other people think

Your question-Do you see any 29ers on the enduro circuit?
My answer-Yes,on the podium.
If you would like to resubmit your question ,changing the parameters to fit your argument,please do.
Box won the 2011 enduro overall on a 160mm 26" wheeled bike.If it was'nt for some bad luck at Inners he would have won the 2012 on a 140mm 29" wheeled bike.This does in no way prove that one is better/faster (though it would be odd of him to choose to race a 'slower' bike) than the other.It proves box is AWESOME and wheel size does'nt seem to make too much difference (to him).

Find me a 26" with 0 BB drop and I'll listen. Until then it's just basic physics why a good 29" is faster. That's without even getting into the lower rolling resistance.

Try and convince an F1 engineer to mount the main masses, engine, fuel tank, driver etc above the axle centreline and he'll also tell you you're on crack.

Then you've never ridden a "rowdy" trail. Ever. I think you've just outed yourself as a complete fantasist, frankly, it's people like you, spouting complete twaddle about things they clearly do not understand that are making so many people frustrated. Then again, you're a salesman's dream I would imagine. I don't think I'll be engaging in any more debates with you. Pointless really.

Come out to North Vancouver. I'm up for a rip whenever you can make it.

rOcKeTdOg .

ride your bike and stop worrying what other people think

It's a bit late now mate. The fires on and I'm watching ghostbusters II, just about to open a beer.

http://dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-magazine-26v29-bonus-feature.html

I think you've just outed yourself as a complete fantasist, frankly, it's people like you, spouting complete twaddle about things they clearly do not understand that are making so many people frustrated.

Comic genius.

Your question-Do you see any 29ers on the enduro circuit?
My answer-Yes,on the podium.

Ah I see, the uk enduro series. I was talking about the European series in the alps. The one with the worlds best riders.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Superenduro-2012-Season-Recap.html

When you get guys winning the biggest races in the world on different sized wheels, I'll take notice.

I have a 26" C456 with 130mm Revs and a 29" scandal with 100mm Rebas. Both are 16" frames.

When I ride the 29er I feel more confident to not go over the bars hitting an obstacle or small drop with no finesse. On bumpy, muddy etc climbs it is easier to ride.

But when I get back on the 26er it feels more alive. Yes I tend to come to an abrupt stop more often but maybe that is because I expect to and don't believe in the bike so approach with more caution than on the 29er. I think a proper skills course would show me what my bike can actually do.

Weight wise the carbon frame is a bit lighter (but not much), the C456 has XT, Scandal LX, the C456 has Mavic 717 with 2.25 Nics and the Scandal On One rims with either Beavers (very light) or today I tried the Smorgasboards so yes the 29er wheels are built a bit heavier but they are also wider which is nice.

Which do I prefer? Depends what mood I am in. When I had a rigid fork on the 29er I would take out the C456 if I knew it was going to get lairy but now I have Rebas on there I am more likely to give it more abuse but the 26" C456 still puts the biggest smile of my face. Yes I do think i can be faster on the 29er but I am not racing, I am out with friends and I have more fun on the smaller wheels.

Maybe if I was over 6ft then the 29er would feel more nimble but I don't buy into the whole "29ers are not for people under 6ft" thing. They are absolutely fine but just like you choose the type of bike for your riding you now have the option to choose wheel size and the 29" wheels just make whatever you choose a bit more capable at rolling over stuff.

I fancy trying 650b wheels on my C456 to see where it lies in the middle. If it's still as much fun then perfect. 🙂

you iz all looser innit though..

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I'd sooner ride that thing yunki's posted up there than spend any time riding/talking/being in the same county as some of the "experts" giving their opinion on this subject.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Ride whatever you want. No one else gives a rats ass.

Ride whatever you want. No one else gives a rats ass.

😉
I do agree though.

Perfect, can't believe nobody has every said that in the 26v29 discussion before.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

🙂

Has anyone mentioned weight in this discussion? For your £ I'd expect a 29er to weigh approx 2lbs more than a 26er.
2lb makes a difference on an xc course. Throw in some twisty, stoppy-starty woodland stuff rather than gravel grinds and I think the scales could swing against the 29er for racing.

I spent my money on a top notch 2nd hand 26 rather than getting an inferior spec 29. Love it for it's agility.

Has anyone mentioned weight in this discussion? For your £ I'd expect a 29er to weigh approx 2lbs more than a 26er.

Probably though both camps claim the same facts as proof, meanwhile someone else is looking for exceptions to prove rules.

Meanwhile in the real world people are riding bikes.

So 26er rider is faster on 26" bike, 29er rider is faster on 29" bike. Shocker.

Yeah and the 29" was over 5 seconds faster than the 26" and the 26" rider had never ridden a 29" before but was very close to his 26" time and couldn't believe the grip and how stable it was. He took the words right out of my mouth...

I can't wait to see that new Enduro shake things up in the enduro world series. With the right rider the advantage will simply be unfair and that will be that for 26" and the heads in the sand brigade.

Therefore a very short and light rider on a big wheeled, long-travel, slack angled, long wheelbase bike will need to move a HUGE amount to make that bike to what its rider wants - ie the bike is too stable and too difficult to manoeuvre. Conversely, a very tall and heavy rider on a small wheeled, short travel, steep angled, short wheelbase bike will have to move tiny amounts to make that bike do what its rider wants - ie the bike is not stable enough and too difficult to keep balanced and controlled in the gnarr as external forces cause the rider to involuntarily move, thus destabilising the bike.

Why describe a small rider on a slack bike,long travel with a long wheelbase that they will have no control over because it's too big next to a tall rider on a small frame with a short wheelbase,short travel and steep angles that's too small for him?

You need to be getting a pile of the same kit for each bike build.. custom frames made to suit each rider and THEN compare what we're talking about here.

26 v 29.

We can't compare the difference between a short arse on a bike too big for them, next to a lanky git on a bike that's too small. If the tall rider fall's over the front of the bike, it's not showing how crap a smaller wheel is. The same as the short rider overshooting corners on a bike with a monster wheelbase.It's not showing up how a 29er is less maneuverable.

And if it doesn't what does it do to the 29'r up their backside brigade?

Nothing much to add to this discussion as i've only read the posts on this page and i've read a few "facts" above etc and been informed of Blah vs Yadda over X terrain vs Y terrain and i have come to the conclusion that i don't really care any more....really i don't, although in true STW fashion i cannot leave this thread without offering something to fuel the fire so to speak so i will say that for the two fully sponsored riders that i know, one rides multi day XC type stage races with success and the other rides multi day Enduro and more gravity induced races with success, both ride 29'ers, so with that reasoning we can surmise that 29'ers are obviously better as otherwise they'd ride 26".

I ride 26" and i am not successful at anything, thus that proves that riding a 29'er is the path to successful living, I'm perfectly content being a failure so i'll stick wi my 26" wheels if that's ok 😀

Lots of roadie types, phobic to lifting their front wheels off the ground probably think 29ers have some sort of advantage over 26 inch MTBs. Good for them..

Find me a 29er that jumps anywhere near as well as a proper bmx 🙂

Some good reading in this thread. Interesting link to pinkbike thoughts about the design and development challenges associated with larger wheels. So what I'm thunking is;

26" bikes have a shorter 'maximum rider height' than 29" bikes. The inverse being true at the short arse end of the spectrum.

29" wheels aren't strong enough to handle the gnarr that the bike geometry they encourage(slack, longer wheelbase) likes, combined with the weight of the larger rider.

29" bike with no bb drop is an inherently better place to start designing a bike.

I'm going to be paying more for whatever fork I buy from now on due to the vast array of options being offered to the market. 😯 How long can that really continue before industry standards dictate a more consolidated selection? The margins must be soo much smaller on each unit due to higher tooling costs and lower sales.

Ski and snowboard industry analogies work to a point. Sidecut, no sidecut, reverse sidecut, positive camber, negative camber, early rise, magnatraction edge blablabla. Main manufacturers shifted their whole range to no camber boards for a season and then reverted, worked as a pr stunt. Now its settled down and there is an available ski/board that is best suited to any particular style of riding.

I hope not! Both my offroad bikes are 26 - I really like them and do not wish to "upgrade". They both work perfectly, I look after things, don't care if I'm "in fashion" or not, and I love my riding. Is the one faster than the other?
I don't know. I think to an extent the claims are exaggerated to boost sales, I guess the vast majority of us would not see any time gains - nor care either way - as we ride for fun and enjoyment (don't we?).
I think it's hard to tell for sure because the ride's input will always be variable. The same rider on the same course, same bike, same day sees different lap times. You get tired if you do the laps consecutively on the same day, and if you do them on different days the weather, conditions, your mood, health etc will be different. One 'triathlist' I know uses a rear hub which measures his power output because how hard you think you are working is not an accurate measure of how hard you ARE working. Bottom line? Ride what you like the look of. Of course, if you're sponsored, you ride what you're told to ride!

The debate isn't 26 v 29 at all. The two are co-existing no problem, and are different enough that they make sense alongside each other to suit certain terrain, distance, rider characteristics etc.

The introduction of the third 650b size is what will kill of 26ers if anything does. Personally I hope 650b is a flash in the pan and we can get back to common sense.

It's a bit late now mate. The fires on and I'm watching ghostbusters II, just about to open a beer.

Am I right in thinking the only people that ride 26ers now are people who buy bikes based on what the guy stood on top of the podium rides?

Putting lanky bean poles to one side for a moment 😀 , the debate ends with what sort of riding you're into. I personally find head-down XC mile crunching boring as hell. MTBing to me involves the ability to jump, I need to retain the agility that smaller wheels provide and this in reality rules out *ungainly* and pointlessly-big 29 inch wheels.

It would take a brave man to bet against the marketing machine and the wheels are well and truly turning.

Mostly BS in the beginning IMO but the tide is turning and over the next year or 2 brands will need to deliver (you can see that happening already.)

IMO at the moment it looks like 26ers are on the ropes.

Isn't this just optimists v pessimists?

As an owner of several 26in bikes and now one rigid 29er SS (which is where, for me, at the moment, I see big wheels possibly providing an advantage), I'm excited by the new possibilities that all this innovation may bring. As someone said a few pages back, the market will ensure there will always be good bikes to ride, no matter how tall/short/skilled/incompetent/jey/gnarr you are. New thinking and new solutions just help move things forward.

29 is not the end of this... Less than a month away now, this will give people something to think about.

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What's the average height of a mountain biker in the US compared to one in the UK? Probably taller, which means they'll benefit more from 29ers. As the supply of 26" wheels, tyres, frames and forks dwindles, and the prices gradually rise, we'll all be forced to switch whether we like it or not.

Your only hope is to ensure that at least your children are tall. Feed them well.

Then, when almost everyone is riding 29 - 26 will become niche, cred, hip and thus have its renaissance. Ye gods! I'll be fashionable - how awful 🙂

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If, instead of reading and contributing to this thread, we'd spent our time knitting, together we could have made a lovely sweater for that whale that Somafunk rode down in another thread recently. Or a big pair of pants.

Just sayin'

Wouldn't wolly pants be a bit itchy though?

Depends on how big the stitches are. Bigger stitches = less itch.

what like 29er stitches as opposed to 26er stitches? 😆

There was a Krampus in brixton cycles around xmas time. I couldn't stop looking at it. They said I could take it for a ride, got flu soon after so couldn't.

As you have less stitches to do, the 29er cross stitch is considerably faster in making your garment of choice. Not great around the neck area though, as it can get a bit draughty. 😉

Am I right in thinking the only people that ride 26ers now are people who buy bikes based on what the guy stood on top of the podium rides?

It seems that way Stu. Funny thing is the same people are also saying people riding 29ers are gullible victims of a marketing sting.

Funny thing is the same people are also saying people riding 29ers are gullible victims of a marketing sting

And don't forget "air-phobic mile munchers" 😆

Oh yeah, and 'AttentionSeekingWhores'.

as it can get a bit draughty.

Sounds like a + to me.

I like a bit of airflow in my pants to keep things cool. 8)

are people trying to kill 26's? Should they now be endangered?

If not concentrate on whats between your own legs and **** off 🙂

Go ride your bike, if your faster then good for you if not ebay it and get 650 or 30" or 28"

i'm not quite sure where all this 26ers are dieing out thing is coming from. outside of xc races and marathon events i reckon only about 1 in 50 bikes i see is a 29er and i'm yet to see a 650b bike or wheel outside of a magazine.

In all these 29er debates, it is never actually established what counts as a better bike.

What is a better bike, a faster one? a more fun one? one that jumps better? one that manuals better? one that climbs better? one that just simply feels right?

I don't think there's any questions in the time advantages a 29er will buy you in an xc/trail, even AM situation on the correct tracks. The 29er will be best if all you care about is time, but you will no doubt be compromising in some other aspect.

Moral of the story is you can't have your cake and eat it. Wheel size just as suspension setup or bike geomoetry, adjust to enhance one aspect, compromise on others.

There is no best, just acceptable compromises for whatever the application happens to be.

I wonder If the walker's have the same sort of debate on their forums every couple of weeks ....which is better trail shoes or walking boots ???? Is it the end of walking boots ??

nah, they argue over whats best to put across trails, rope or barbed wire.

Cleared every jump on my FS 29er this morning in our local woods and had great fun in the twisty singletrack mudfest.

Would also have loved it on my 26er. No more no less as I just love riding.

If you can't do jumps on a 29er then go on a skills course, it's you that's lacking not the bike.

I don't want to ride a 29er, I came from 20" and 26" still seems big!

I ride a bit of everything and get the benefits of 29" on XC and trail, yes you can jump on 29" you can jump on whatever if your good but can't see DJ riders and 4X riders going 29" anytime soon.

I was out over Kinver DH/Freeride today, as well as the 10 riders riding there there were about 20 XC guys come through, all on 26" the only exception was one guy riding solo on a CX bike.

26" Dying...maybe magazine coverage is dwindling but not in the real world!

Exactly! I've never seen a 650B on my local trails or on weekends away at trail centres, and 29ers are still very much in the minority. 26ers are hear to stay I think. Most of the guys I ride with have accepted 29ers as another option, and i expect to see more on the trails this year as 29er technology settles down and components have become available, but I can't see 650B making headway anytime soon. A choice too many I think and not enough ofa difference from 26er for riders to make the investment as a second bike or replacement.

cant be arsed reading all that

but if 29 takes over with there being no choice then i might just stick to bmx and give up mtbiking 😀

29ers are ugly, they just look wrong, and I'm probably never going to buy one based solely on that half-arsed assessment. 😆

I know it's subjective, but there you go. And I bet I'm not the only person that feels like that.

To paraphrase; the death of the 26er has been greatly exaggerated 😀

Dear 26ophiles, anyone want to buy my Soul? http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mk2-cotic-soul-small-orange-full-build 😆