[Closed] Ard Rock '17 Debrief

The evidence of the above!

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Had a great time, 1st Ard Rock, was in the Enduro. I loved every second of it.
Got passed on almost every stage but made sure I got out of the way (probably too much tbh). Folks may well still feel I shouldn't have been on the Saturday event, but until there is a clear requirement for a certain level of experience or some other seeding then 1st timers have no idea which class to enter.

Anyway, Postierich - we saw you dancing away and there was much love for your "christmas jumper"!!
Sadly my experience of Shimano and SRAM was the opposite of yours. Was told that shifters were pretty much a consumable and I should get one online and that my less than 18 month old Reverb suddenly developing a sag was normal and I'd need to pay someone to service it.
SRAM in particular couldn't have been less interested in helping out.

Contrast that with pretty much every other exhibitor we spoke to who were super helpful and friendly.

Will be back next year and will still be trying for the Enduro.

Si

Special mention for the stans tent btw, doing free tubeless taping and top up, guys must've been scunnered looking at tyres at end of the weekend!...

I also noted there were a number of riders who appeared a bit out of their depth but mountain biking doesn't have any sort of consistent grading system. There's no way for someone who hasn't ridden it before to know what it's like unless a friend has ridden it and knows their ability.

As much as I felt some folk were holding me up, I think letting someone past might have been one task too many for some. Every ounce of their being was focused on survival.

Thought the whole weekend was bloody brilliant. My first Ard Rock, and I'll definitely be back!

I was overtaken on stage one by someone who was absolutely flying. I then returned the favour to several people on stages 2 and 5. There was loads of room to overtake and we were given plenty of time from the marshalls between riders on the Saturday.

Thought the trails were great - nowhere near as full on as a PMBA, so you could just focus on riding rather than being scared. Although there were folk who were out of their depth, but I guess everyone has to start somewhere and the extra riders just added to the atmosphere!

Got a fork rebuild from SRAM and a new rear mech from Shimano mid race - my mech threw itself into the rear wheel on the transition between stages 2 and 3. Thankfully, it was downhill all the way back to Reeth. Unfortunately that meant I had a 4 mile climb up to stage 3!

The band were ace - my worst injury of the weekend came from the mosh pit at the end, just before everyone started crowd surfing.

Didn't hear the church bells, but I must've been too drunk to care ha ha.

And to top it all, I didn't disgrace myself with a time of 22:53 on a hardtail. Result!

*likes*

Getting the timing right on Ard Rock, is next to impossible. Interesting everyone seems to have a better perception of it this year. There were quite a lot more riders. Last year there was a quite a bit of criticism.

Closure of the chute was down to a few minor and not so minor accidents very early on. Assessment was made that on average it was out of the skillset of most riders. There was deff a very different rider profile on Sunday.

I think the chute was ok, but the hard right entrance was a bit techy for those not used to that sort of riding, and I imagine threw a lot of people. Have to be honest when I rode down 1 at the end of Sat I didn't even see the go round. Rode it Sunday out of interest. Not exactly a chicken run... (but I had lots of fence poles tied to my back and couldn't really turn my head a lot which added a special kind of tech)

The chute on stage 1 cost me a good 90 seconds after having to slow right down follow the blue arrows which to be fair caused me to stop and ask the marshal WTF ? as two then passed me i was told to carry on its closed, i did how ever managed to chase the two lads down (both mates which have heard nothing but the fact they were passed) but as others have said I think people with good times from one year to the next should be vetted for the Saturday as watching people push and bail out on Saturday left a little bad taste in my mouth having to set off at 11am Sunday ..stick a cracking days ride but could have been a bit better

Am I allowed to say I don't even remember a tricky chute on stage one without sounding like I'm bragging too much, or was I just not paying attention? Definitely didn't spot any chicken lines on Saturday (or were they put there on Sunday morning after an incident?)

Its hard enough making the entry system fair, god knows how you'd vet riders.

It's an amazing event, long may it continue.

Edit -JB I was thinking the same, but didn't want to be called Billy big baws!

Yeah. Vetting for Saturday entry?

Maybe. But the Ard Rock is not part of a series. There is no prize money. It's a totally stand alone event that grew from a mates race and mad cap idea as I understand it. I don't think the organisers had any idea how big it would get when they started it. That it still has that vibe the first one had in '13 is brilliant and I'd be sorry to see that change, as I think it would if there were entry criteria.

For a start I couldn't mock the people who take it very very very very seriously. And I like doing that. Closing your eyes for fifteen seconds and going to your special place when you get to the front of the queue etc.

Though one of them was also quite hung over and may just have been asleep.

They did achieve a distinct self selection of the ridersthis year, and last now i think about it. All marshals I spoke to on Sunday commented on the very different rider type, you'll never get that 100%.
Also it's a very severe terrain. And if you haven't ridden sometbing like it before then it might not occur to you the world contains that many pointy rocks all in one place.

^^^
There's a point where you've just got to say "it is what it is" and crack on. So few actually have a shot at a top ten finish that it gets a bit silly worrying after that.

It's riding bikes down a hill, if you're getting all wound up about it you're doing it wrong.

Am I allowed to say I don't even remember a tricky chute on stage one without sounding like I'm bragging too much, or was I just not paying attention? Definitely didn't spot any chicken lines on Saturday (or were they put there on Sunday morning after an incident?)

Is not that steep, but it's quite long and surrounded by sharp rocks. Also as all 1 is slag from mining is very loose. Depends what you're used to.

I saw one guy down on it in the first year, face first, just folded his bike up. I was genuinely surprised when he got up.

Dont get me wrong im never going to be the fastest rider on the day but when there is bragging rights involved with friends thats a whole different ball game ..

Ive not made a brew at work since 🙂

I do think its getting bigger every year and may end up with a Friday Sat Sunday next year to accommodate

I do think its getting bigger every year and may end up with a Friday Sat Sunday next year to accommodate

I was pondering similar today. Would have to if they (for example) reintroduced a sportif format, which was dropped from this and I think last year. That would also draw some of the less gnar-rad-tasting riders to an event they could enjoy on its own merits etc.

Third year doing the enduro. First DNF. Not enough riding following a fractured elbow and just didn't have the fitness so bailed at the pub (knew from the way I felt that the climbs up to 3 and 4 would see me riding the stages in no fit state to concentrate properly...). Discretion, valour, and all that.

Head wasn't fully in it either - one bit on stage 1 and one corner on stage 2 had me off and walking when I rode them blind easily last year...

I'll be back next year though...

Well, I've done the Sprint for the last two years as I've not managed to get into the Enduro. So I'm a bit jealous of those that got to do stages 4 and 5. I practiced 6, pointless for the Sprint but great fun.

I was a little surprised to catch riders after a couple of corners and even more surprised to see walking at a slight uphill (not a mechanical) but on the upside it makes you feel a lot faster than you actually are if you get to do lots of passing.
I'd wager that most people complaining about traffic, (including myself, I whinged a lot) are unlikely to trouble a podium at most races and overtaking safely is after all a part of Enduro.

Also what other race could I turn up at the 3rd stage a little tipsy from a couple of pints at the pub stop.

At no point did I consider getting off and walking any part of the stages. Having said that, it was definitely some of the more intimidating / steep riding I've done blind.
Not sure what that sys about my riding level!!

Anyone know how the guy who was passed out in the road outside my house on Sat night was feeling on Sunday morning?! His mate and I had to drag him out of the traffic, looked like a great time at the bar

Late to the party, but still buzzing from the weekend. 2nd time there riding the Saturday Enduro - ditched the Maxxis Exos (front/rear punctures on 2 and 3 last year) for a pair of Hutchinson Toros and managed a respectable time of 21:36 and 39th in Vets. Got held up a couple of times - Stage 2 by a couple of guys who'd squeezed past on the transition and asked if their mate could join them in front of the queue... followed by another 3 or 4 who rolled up. Just glad I got past most in the open bit after the steep switchbacks then caught the rest in the rocky bit at the end in time to heckle them to get off the brakes 🙂
Frustration on Stage 6 at the guy who seemed to think not letting people past was part of the racing. I'd already passed two of his mates, called 'rider' at increasing volumes while trying to find somewhere to pass, marshalls also called 'rider' to him, eventually overtook on the outside of a corner and cut him off. He had ample opportunity but just stuck to the middle of the trail... don't know how you can reinforce these matters of etiquette without increasing queue times... maybe a little reminder signpost at the start of each stage? Pushed a lot of the climbs - for me it's about conserving energy and being able to give it the maximum beans when it counts.
Some of the best racing/riding of the year again - already looking forward to and planning for next year. Some of the best organisation and logistics of any event I've ever been to in 10 years of racing enduro events. Earplugs a must for camping!

I have axes to grind.

Stage 1. Started well. Overtook someone and then got stuck behind someone who went so slow at one point I had to stop! Caught him up again where they stopped and got off on the finish line. WTF!?! I was quite cross.
Stage 2. Was okay but forgot to put my gloves on so spent the whole time thinking about that, plus half way down I got stuck behind someone else.
Stage 3. Nearly crashed big time. Feet off pedals audible 'ooos' from spectators.
Stage 4. Forgot to pedal on the latter half so lost loads of time. Annoying as looking at my time I'd covered the tech sections well.
Stage 5. Awesome fun. Fast but could have been faster and made a big mistake going into a tight corner.
Stage 6. Fast but made a few dubious line choices. Could have been faster.

I need to get better at the whole 'rider' thing, rather than being nice and not forcing folks to move over so next year (if I do it) it'll be a case of **** 'em! Both riders knew I was there but that's racing I guess!?! And if I do, it will be at my own pace inbetween the stages. I need lots of rest and proper food by all accounts.

Anyway, organisation was great, trails were great, climbs were sh1te but no avoiding them so I'll fit more appropriate gearing next time and the folks I did speak to were great. Loved the comment from one chap to his mate pleading with him not to have children as he was too thick. Made me laugh.

Dan

Interesting watching quite a lot of video and reading on here too - the "rider" call thing seems a bit of an issue when catching people. It's probably worth making a decision where you want to go and say "on your left" or "on your right" and going for it, which has always been my preferred method.

Just telling someone you are behind, when they're possibly at their limit so not able to look round or deviate from what they perceive as a safe line probably doesn't help.

On local trails I use the on your left or right thing (mostly to walkers). But again, looking back at videos of others, I should and could have been more purposeful in calling out 'rider'. The guy I did get past moved over after hearing a very middle class 'I'm behind you, but I'm not entirely sure how I'm going to get past you' comment.

You live and learn.

Out of interests do Ardrock seed or attempt to separate faster and slower riders?

Saturday riders are sent out with a bit of a gap, Sunday is a free for all.

What always amazes me is that there is a complete lack of rider briefing.
Even a sheet handed out at registration with a few basics would be good.

What always amazes me is that there is a complete lack of rider briefing.
Even a sheet handed out at registration with a few basics would be good.

Keep up at the back it's Friday night on the main stage.

possibly some of you are missing the point? Its a race with mates and to have a good time. Getting caught up with folks is part of the deal. You wouldn't force your mates off track would you?

If your a "proper" racer may i suggest the PMBA or similar?

@AlexSimon there is a rider briefing the evening before (I only remembered this while listening to the Saturday night briefing for the Sunday events 🙂 )

@andyrm Thing is, on terrain like that it is probably best to allow the rider in front to decide where they feel most comfortable/safe to move to the side. Plus, sat behind someone you can't always see whether left or right are likely to be your best option.

Two mates I rode with on the Saturday had issues with people coming past without waiting for them to pull over. When you are at your personal limit and someone appears at your shoulder it can be dangerously off-putting.

The rule of thumb I apply whether the faster or slower rider (we have all been both at one time or another) is simply "don't be a ****"... and say thanks if someone lets you pass!

@AlexSimon there is a rider briefing the evening before (I only remembered this while listening to the Saturday night briefing for the Sunday events )

The problem with shouting "on your right/left" is that a lot of people filter out the "on your" bit and move to the side you're trying to pass on.

Been guilty of this myself when breathing out my arse on climbs in XC races, and had others do it in front of me.

Out of interests do Ardrock seed or attempt to separate faster and slower riders?

I don't think so considering I was in a group with former elite WC down hill riders and riders slower than me.

As I asked earlier, I am sure I answered a question during entry on entry about my ability on a bike but it was early. I am sure there was a drop down box with fast, average, bimble or words to that effect.

Seeding wouldn't have mattered much because the first climb tends to cause a bottle neck. Some of the really fast guys just crawl up it so is hard not to pass them and then get in the way later.

Riders have set off times so they could be self-seeded at the point of ticket sale. Rate themselves 1-5 and then your start time can reflect your skill/fitness level. It won't be perfect but better that catching lots of people up.

It's a safety issue if you have really fast people with really slow. If you can make that a bit better/safer pre event it would be good for all.

Was passing etiquette mentioned?

Riders have set off times so they could be self-seeded at the point of ticket sale. Rate themselves 1-5 and then your start time can reflect your skill/fitness level. It won't be perfect but better that catching lots of people up.

'Tis tru.. we left on sunday at 0750, which I was pleased with (if you did up, down, left, right, ABC when paying with paypal, you got entered into the 'super lightening fasssst' category..)
However, as we only got into the Sunday race, by stage 4/5 we'd 'caught up' the sprint riders who'd left probably an hour or so after us...
Hey ho, adds to the skillz required!

DrP

The trouble with the Ard rock is that you end up with all the riders with fast fingers instead of fast legs 😀

"Rider! Keep left/right" seemed to work for me, shouted 2-3 times when approaching.

First time for me and to be honest I really enjoyed it. Stage 1 and 2 scared me a bit and I did have to get off and walk one or two of the drops/really steep rocky sections.
For the number of riders I have to say I didn't come across anyone that seemed frustrated or peeved with me 'being in the way'. And I suspect that I WAS in the way now and then!(sorry to you all)
Personal preference as has been stated is to shout "on your left/right!"....instead of "rider!"- much easier for me to help people get passed without too much distraction.
Out of interest - although I don't think I'm going to do it again next year, does anyone have any experience of similar enduros that are maybe a little less 'technical'? I loved the social aspect of it and the competition- really well organised event in my VERY limited experience!

Shame if the format makes newer/less skilled riders feel like they're in the way or not up to scratch in some way.

Shame if the format makes newer/less skilled riders feel like they're in the way or not up to scratch in some way.

DrP

EDIT - however, I do agree with teh sentiment that I WISH there was some process to seed 'racers' on the saturday, and 'newbies/just for the ride' on sunday.
Maybe assessment of previous times/evidence of previous race history?? Definietely far too much effort for the organisers to sensibly work with, but maybe looking at past R+R entires etc automatically..oh I don't know!

Regardless, though I'd have preferred the saturday race (probably so i could let lose on sat eve!) I had a cracking ride on sunday..
[b]21.39 on a HT[/b]..not too shabby...

DrP

^They would do well to remind people of that.

Nothing overly difficult especially compared to stuff like the UKGE put on. Quite clear some never venture beyond trail centres.

Too many people.

Erm, not being an arse, but it IS a race (isn't it??)

No. Saturday is a race... Sunday's Sport is not.

Erm, not being an arse, but it IS a race (isn't it??)

Opinion seems to be divided in this thread.

Certainly sounds like a bit more seeding and categorisation could help, rather than just piling as many people in as poss? Send the newbies & chubsters out early and the fast people later?

It's timed, there are podiums, it's a race in my opinion.
Perhaps they should just open the route to riders to ride at their leisure on another day?

Rode the Sunday sport early on and it was great. Passed riders on pretty much every stage, worst being stuck behind a group in the woods on S1 and someone stood on the top of a little chute on S5 - who then proceeded to try and gap the little drop and nearly snapped his bike in two. I was shouting to get by but the guy was clearly struggling so just hung back. I think these were the intro riders which we caught up to. Ended up losing a lot of time on that, ah well.

Didn't find anything tricky on the stages, despite riding them with no practice. Though we had a mooch around stage 1 on the Saturday and there were lots walking sections - riders that shouldn't have been in the main race imo.

Regardless it was a good weekend, think I'll try for the main event next year.