Just been looking at the Pinion site, 2200g for the 9 speed. That doesnt sound too bad.
The Pinion offering lighter real wheel weight will be a significance of how that bike rides. It always amazes me how a singlespeed rear wheel rolls up and over square edges with less weight from lack of cassette and mech. So that should more than offset the more central mass. Same reason I've never liked internal geared hubs for mounts bike applications.
[i]carbon wheels, Vecnum dropper, carbon bars, lighter brakes, lighter discs, lighter grips, lighter stem.. ) it comes in at 15kg or 33lb.[/i]
Where is the weight coming from then? Frame and gearbox?
NickC. Yes. Less frame, more gearbox and ancillaries. Like was mentioned the Pinion box 9spd is 2200kg BUT They don't mention that's without crank arms, shifter, sprockets . So total drivetrain weight is about 3kg for the 12sp, That also has a built in bash guard under the box.
Need to then add the tensioner, belt....
I think we can expect 800g or so heavier than an XX1/X01 setup which is about right based on comparing to mine.
Frame is close to normal Ion weight. Don't forget also your looking at a frame that is 25mm longer than a typical XL.
Interesting observation on the SS Brant. That had not occurred to me.
As mentioned, I'm trying not to get hung up on how heavy it could be, more on how it rides and where that weight is. It will be different that's for sure..
The Effigear gets far less coverage than Pinion but for me seems much better as its lighter weight, has less gears and comes with a trigger shifter.
I can imagine that as long as you don't mind the winch up, then the ride down is probably mentally fun. 😆
What's the Vecnum seat post like?
This seatpost is relevant to my interests. Oh and are you using their magic seat clamp or a normal one?
As a bit of a weight weenie and experimentalist I was both inherently attracted to the advantages this bike offers and simultaneously horrified at a bike over 30lbs again...having said that, I think there are many, in fact I know there are having seen a 'how much does your bike weigh' thread on here that are utterly deluded about their bikes weight
you post that, then come out with this pearler
In terms of extra effort to just pedal it, this might surprise you, it did me!
...for a 75kg man, pulling a 3000m climbing day (more than most of us are likely to do in a stint), at a steady 5mph for 2 hours solid on a mtb, in avg temps, with avg tyres, the difference in energy expended is 81Kcals.
can you show your working?
Ok chaps...its not a prototype.Those pictures are from the official launch (At a Rock/Bike festival :wink:) prior to the main launch at Eurobike.It will be available to order post Eurobike with either belt or chain drive, either is retrofittable to the other, as are box internals of 9, 12 or 18spd. That one is 12sp, which is 150g heavier than 9sp but closer ratio's.
Awesome news! Let's see the prices 🙂
Anyways ,I'll report back after I've seen for myself...If I love it, great, if not, I'll try not to convince myself I want it anyway and carry on with the tweaked custom version of mine....
Please do so! Rider's feedback is always appreciated.
@ Chainline
what is the distance between centre of bars to rear of your saddle on your funky forward geometry bike please?
Thanks in advance
@ chain line
Any chance you could email me at no1jeff@hotmail.co.uk
Wouldn't mind picking your brain about your bike/frame
Cheers
Chainline, i'm really liking that.
Much more in line with the kind of riding i enjoy....the long wheelbase makes sense on long travel slack angled bikes, i should imagine its awesomely stable at speed/descending...quite why the industry is obsessed with short chainstays is baffling to me?!....its mixed messages, "here have this long travel, slack angled Enduro/DH/Gnarpoon weapon that we've stuck the shortest possible stays on limiting your tyre choice and making it twitchy at speed just when you want maximum stability"....yeah nice one designers.
I think these are the conditions where Pinion gearboxes are made for:
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deviant - Member
...quite why the industry is obsessed with short chainstays is baffling to me?!.
the industry is obsessed with whatever the buying public are obsessed with.
and we're obsessed with silly-short chainstays.
Drop out belt keeper, idler pullies, external spring thing, looks like more bits to break, get worn out or filled with grinding paste.
The bike is now officially on Nicolai's website and the top version costs €7399 ([url= http://shop.nicolai.net/index.php/ion-gpi-pro.html ]Link[/url])
I was not able to see frames alone there, perhaps only full bikes are available at this stage.
Well, short post, but sweet, very sweet.
Had a test with Chris Porter, Mr. Mojo at Forest Of Dean DH and trails and really liked the Mojo Nicolai Geometron [not the Pinion version]. I've ordered one, stealth black. Frame fork and Fox DOSS package.
I call mine rootmaster, get it = long and stable, a thing of beauty like the old red London Routemaster bus, and the "root" part = confidence inspiring over rough ground.
Confidence inspiring all round, actually. Amazing turning on the trail centre berms and flat corners. Fabulous on the mini DH tracks at FOD too.
Very highly recommended. Turns great, pedals well, doesn't feel too long or too slack at all but it does turn and track amazingly well which is what that long slack geometry's all about.
IMO Chris Porter has done an amazing job.
chapeau
I'll try and get back to peeps on some of this stuff.
The answer to the seatpost is its great, faultless so far and easy totake apart. I'm using their clamp.
My saddle is a selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio.
You can get a GPI frame only. Contact me if you want one and for a price.
Seatpost is for sale due to it not fitting in my new bike...need to order a shorter one ;-( but min 4 month wait....and when I ordered mine it turned into a year wait!
Does this frame have a hole to let you use a stealth dropper post?
@mudfish How long are you having to wait until you get your frame?
Hi gaz552
Yes, it has a hole for a stealth dropper and comes with a neat little plug it it's not being used.
I got my frame 3 days after ordering it, Mojo has invested in stock. Every time I ride it I love it more, amazing how good it is on nadgery singletrack. Well pleased.
Speak to Chris Porter at Mojo, he loves to talk about this project. Tell him Neil B sent you 😉
I have one! Don't post here often more of a lurker!
Have a float x on mine at the moment as there no stock of x2 shocks for three weeks best bike I've ever ridden. And I've ridden lots of bikes (and work in the trade so get access to lots) the bike climbs incredibly well and goes downhill like no other bike. I find I have to slow the bike down more into turns as it exits corners so quickly. Seems to carve corners far better and hold its speed a lot easier than a shorter wheelbase bike the biggest wheel base bike I've had was 49" the geometron has 51".
I'm 6'1" and ride the longest one. It makes my previous bike a new style xl nomad look tiny and the nomad rides terribly if you were to ride it back to back. Most over hyped bike I've had if you ask me ( the nomad) I'm in north wales if anybody wants a pedal on it!
It makes my previous bike a new style xl nomad look tiny and the nomad rides terribly if you were to ride it back to back. Most over hyped bike I've had if you ask me ( the nomad)
Careful now, several STW big hitters have invested several thousands of their hard earned on a Nomad and never tire of telling the forum how good they are....to hear that it's not in fact the best bike in the world may make their heads explode.
I predict a sudden influx of Nomads onto the second hand market and a coincidental rise in orders for Chris Porter's Geometron!
Hahaha ^^^
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/nicolai-mojo-geometron-first-ride-2015.html ]Pinkbike reevoo.[/url]
I saw this bike at the concept stage and didn't realise it was available for purchase until I found this thread yesterday. Last night I read everything I could find about it.
Then, that pops up on Pinkbike first thing this morning. A positive but disappointingly brief review. The comments are sure to be amusing.
But...I'm into it. I was just saying yesterday while riding my 26" steel hardtail, that I'm not looking for a new bike because there's nothing else I want. Nothing at all that I like the look, or the idea of.
Now this bloody thing has got my brain ticking.
I fancy some of this on my XC rides,
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Never mind all the geometry and frame wondefulness, wtf is going on with that saddle!
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wwaswaswtf is going on with that saddle!
That's close to how I run mine. Slammed right forward on the rails, with a slight downward tilt. Puts you above/in front of the bb so easier to put the power down. It also helps keep weight over the front on steeper climbs and gives support. When I'm pedaling it's not there anymore so it becomes irrelevant.
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Doesn't having the saddle that far forward suggest the bike's too big for the rider? Does this in turn suggest that the longer, longer, longer trend has reached it's pinnacle?
means the geometry is wrong 😆
Does this in turn suggest that the longer, longer, longer trend has reached it's pinnacle?
No, that was [url= http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/bike_news/size-matters-part-2-finding-limits-geometry-sizing-323289 ]HERE[/url]
That pinkbike review seems to echo what people on here have said, it requires a different technique but it works very well.
I'm 6'1" and ride the longest one. It makes my previous bike a new style xl nomad look tiny and the nomad rides terribly if you were to ride it back to back. Most over hyped bike I've had if you ask me ( the nomad) I'm in north wales if anybody wants a pedal on it!
Is that you chris porter?
I ride the longer one, I am 5'10", my saddle is bang in the middle. I think Paul is riding Chris's bike there and Chris stands up to peddle almost everywhere he means it and doesn't care too much about the rest. If he is climbing it's usually up a DH pushup or some other super steep track to get to the next DH so it's the right angle most of the time for a long steep climb.!
It's a specific setup that suits his riding, its nowt to do with the bike being too long......
The pedalling position, ETT and BB to HT length are very similar to a normal XL bike or a M, longish TT 29er likethe Ion15 (much lower front though) although the calculated reach is much longer. It's designed for a super short stem so the overall cockpit length is similar to a modern long TT bike with say a 50mm stem.
The biggest change compared to a 'normal' bike you would be assigned to e.g. for me a M, is in the reach which naturally changes your position to weight the front much more significantly, that with the very slack head angle gives alot of front end grip...as previously mentioned the extreme ST angle is so that when climbing you are naturally weighted forward to prevent it wandering rather than adopting a more traditional nose of saddle up arse position. Longer chainstays are to enable that body position to be in the right place to balance grip again between front and back. Lots of length chainstays were tried, this was the best compromise, in their opinion of course. Adjustable, retrofittable, chain stays are in the works...up to 460mm have been used and as short as 432mm.
The reason CP has set up both the package and the demo offer and holds stock is for serious people to be able to try it (hence the charge), not just those who 'fancy a go' he is both confident that people who do try it for a full day on lots of different tracks with personalised set up will appreciate it and that you do need to ride one to appreciate it and be open minded.
You may not like it, it's not a crime. It does take a while to adapt toi if you are not used to riding in the way it encourages, or if you don't want to, then its not for you.
However, unlike the Pinkbike comments, until you've ridden one, the numbers on paper mean nothing and do not define its riding character, other than it is a monster descender. In my opinion its also a monster all rounder and pedals brilliantly (I do have the new Float X2, but the pedalling is no different) it is more than the sum of it's parts. If you didn't know anything about it, didn't look at the HA and rode it around a carpark you'd probably just think this feels like a normal bike..until you thrashed it around a trail and couldn't wipe the smile off your face...
It's interesting that Paul on the Pinkbike review is the first one I think to publish the true HA(s) with the fully customised 180 fork. I think If Chris could get people to try it and not publish any numbers he would, they are a distraction and create alot of pre-conceptions as we can see from the various comments around t'internet.
Chris is enjoying a short holibob after racing in Ainsa, he maybe even off grid!
I think If Chris could get people to try it and not publish any numbers he would,
He's charging £200 a test ride so the numbers probably aren't the main deterrent, to be fair.
Cheap jabs aside though, it's a fascinating bike and I'd love to ride one just to broaden my experience, so to speak.
What are owners using them for? Trail centres? thrashing round the woods? big mountains? enduro racing? DH racing even?
I saw two of these outside the hut at BPW. Really nice looking bikes! They had very different specs. I was struck by how long and slack they look.
I wanted to chat to the owners/riders but couldn't see them.
I'd love to have a ride on these to see what it's all about.
@cha****ng I, and the other 5 people I know who own/run them so far (I know of 2 more orders about to go in) are using them as their all round bike, for everything.
One is on the South downs riding in super tight rooty, clay, treelined nadgeriness...and going to Chamonix. built robust with not über bling at 31lbs
I'm using mine for local semi-xc rides, DH trail centre riding, riding in Finale/Pyrenees enduro stylee (but not racing anymore, and big mountain riding like Trans Provence etc with a good amount of pedalling as well as descending.I'm seriously considering selling my 'other' 'local' bike as this one seems to be such a good all rounder, which is quite a (pleasant) surprise. Mine is quite blingy, but not necessarily light blingy e.g.Hope stuff) and comes in at 29.5lbs with big tyres (MM/Minion)
One is in Scotland near Torriden/Caingorms, again all round bike, riding to the hills, around the hills..(30.5lbs with metal wheels 8O)
Another in South West, trail centres, quantocks and again foreign sojourns, an all round bike again.
Basically it is a very capable trailbike. Maybe a trail bike 911 C4S. Kind of a supercar but can go to the shops and take the kids too.
i don't know anyone who has bought one purely on the basis of its descending capability and most have been surprised by the black magic fairy dust sprinkled on it to make it pedal like it does.
Being more specific I will speculate that those who have will have bought it on it's 'cornering' capability in conjunction with the most sublime suspension. The feedback, control and confidence I get from it on entry, through and exit of any kind of corner, flat, bermed, steep makes me smile just typing it...
I'm amenable to letting anyone have a bash on mine if we are in the vicinity. The £200 is refundable against a purchase and I think everyone who has ridden one ion a test, and a few who haven't, have bought one on the back of it..Compared to a Carbon Framed überbike like a Nomad its great value as well as being brilliant.
I can't believe I'm stuck at work and not out riding it!
Now that its built and out there there does seem to be a very much "oh yeah, why didnt we think of that before?"....type of vibe floating around the bike.
The current fashion for short chainstays does make for short wheelbase bikes that supposedly handle well yet they position the rider perilously close to the rear axle which hinders climbing making the front wander and prone to lifting under power when pedalling....we see riders getting into all sorts of chin on bar positions to make their modern AM bike pedal uphill....nose of saddle wedged firmly in anus etc....
This bikes longer chainstays seem the obvious solution to getting the rider back in the middle of the bike and well positioned for everything....i like it, the fusion of a DH front end to a trail bike rear end is what i've been looking for for ages, shame i've just spunked thousands building up a FS trail bike recently.
It will be interesting to see if the big hitters follow suit or if this bike becomes a freak consigned to the annals of history....anyone wanting to try it on their own bike can do so with headset/angleset cups and a longer fork...as Chris Porter had done with his own Mondraker in the original Dirt interview, just fit a 2-3 degree slackset and if your bike is designed around a 140mm fork find a 160mm one, if the bike already has a 160mm fork then source a 180mm fork....fit the angleset and new longer fork and you should be nearly there....the slackset with original fork installed will drop the front of the bike steepening the the seat tube and dropping the bottom bracket (potentially impractically low)...but by sticking in the longer fork you remedy this by lifting the bottom bracket back up to a usable height, unfortunately you also put the seat tube back in its original position and part of the appeal of the Geometron was a steep seat tube with the slack head angle but its worth a try to see if you like it....if i had some spare cash and a recent-ish FS frame id give this a go.
What's the hate with the nomad though? Same old same old with mojo.
I don't own one but having ridden one its plenty fast and more than enough for most people and no noticeable difference to mine which is pretty well regarded.
Porter's views can be interesting but need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
I love Nicolai's and my next bike will be an Ion 16 but probably just their standard geometry. What I don't get though is how people are building up their Ion's so light? How are you getting an Ion to just over or even under 30lbs? My Helius AC is more like 32lbs and it has a frame weight 0.5lbs less than the Ion. Even with pointless tyres on it's still heavier. The mojo Ion is miles longer and has bigger wheels than my helius (ie more metal) how can it be 2+ lbs lighter?
Not saying it isn't just want a lighter bike that will be as well built and reliable as my current Nicolai!
Weight wise mine is 32.2lb with dx pedals. I run a dual ply folding tyres mavic crossmax xl wheels and full shimano drivetrain and brakes, reverb and 36's It could easily be done to 30lb mark but it would be putting lighter tyres and carbon bits on which I'm not into.
My xl nomad before this was 31.5lb
My xl nukeproof mega 275 before that was 33lb so it's all pretty close weight wise - but weight isn't a major factor for me.
Isn't most people's issue with the nomad that it was touted as the one bike for everything and really it's more of a mini downhill bike (I wouldn't be surprised if the new Bronson manages to fit the idea of the one bike for all riding for these people though). And the weird suspension rate/curve means you need to get your sag set up spot on or it feels bad?
Anyhow, I hope to test a geometron in the near future to see if the geometry and feel suits me.
As for the industry, I wouldn't be surprised if Kona was the manufacturer to push their geometry closer to this (though not as extreme).
