[Closed] Anyone else still on Avid BB7's?

I had BB7s until not very long ago, when I bought some new XTs. To be honest, I probably should have saved my money.

Have BB7s on the CX commuter. 4,000 miles with no problems, still on original pads, certainly can't see why hydraulics would be worth the upgrade.

On my MTB, suspect I'd stick to hydraulics as that what comes with most bikes and groupsets. When I build up Jnrs first disc brake nine he may get BB7s or similar.

Two sets

have gone back to bb7 from hayes. took them to the alps on my 5 last time i went and they were great. ride all day. 'click', 'click', oil the chain, clean the wiper seals, good to go.

I use bb7s and I find them to be perfect for my commutter bike. Fit and forget (almost)

I think when you run a 25mm Tyre on tarmac better brakes won't make that much difference. You have such little contact on the road that any more just skids.

got em on mine and the wifes bike..love em.
only brake to better them is a shimano saint...which is a bit of a overkill for most folk.

The nice thing about BB7s is they just keep on working the same. And if you want to upgrade, simply get better cables.

I've had a lot of [s]fancy[/s] expensive hydraulics and I'll take BB7s over them any day.

Another happy BB7 user here. Got a set on my road bike, another set earmarked for the Puffin, a spare set in the spares box and one on the front of my hack bike.

Two bikes, 2 sets, speed dial levers, big rotors, perfect.

3 bikes,all on BB7's.

they work.

I had BB7s until not very long ago, when I bought some new XTs. To be honest, I probably should have saved my money.

damn, I have just bought some XTs to try instead of my BB7, and since I got them I keep seeing comments like these, and about the Xts squealing and the seals dying, etc.

Otherwise I had BB7s on two bikes, both with Avid Ultimate levers and gore cabling. Pretty much the same feel at the levers as the new XT, I haven't ridden te XTs as their were no olives in the box so I will have to wait to shorten the cables.

Now expecting to regret the purchase, but at least I didn't buy XTRs.

I've got BB7s on my Croix de Fer and they're good on there with Tektro levers, but I much prefer the lever feel and bite of my XT's fitted to my hardtail.

Never ridden hydro brakes, but can't imagine anything working much better than the BB7s. Can't see me ever changing, can't fault em.

Got a set on my Krampus. At first I though they were crap but it turned out to be the pads. Stuck some Superstar sintered in them and the feel just like my Hydraulics on my other bikes.

Hmmm, the ones I've got used to be pretty good, but now they feel very worn. Wondering about replacing them with something like SLX or XT....

Yes, BB7s times 3 and a couple of kids bikes running on BB5s. Could never get my head round the hassle and expense of hydraulics for the sort of stuff I do.

Had 'em for years. great brakes.
They don't like years of commuting up 'em though.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4101/4756923775_6bba546e06_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4101/4756923775_6bba546e06_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/8fmtHa ]brake-worn[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/53067724@N00/ ]Jon Wyatt[/url], on Flickr

So it's not just me then. Interesting that a few people mentioned upgrading to XT's because I'd been thinking about going that way too. It just seems to make sense given that Shimano xt got good reviews and xt stuff usually just works. When Lapierre came onto the market with the Zesty I demo'd one with Formula brakes and they were horrid; such a wooden on/off feeling and no way to adjust the lever. The bite point was right at the beginning of the stroke, as though the reservoirs were full to bursting so I had to take my fingers off the bars to pull the brake which meant holding on was difficult, and then I'd brake too much and almost go flying!

I couldn't live without lever reach/bite point/modulation adjust.

Are any hydraulic brakes reliable?

of course, most hydraulics are reliable, it's that when things do go wrong, sorting it out tends to be a bit more involved. bear in mind you're asking this question on a thread full of bb7 users!
i ran hayes brakes across a few bikes for a few years, with, in reality, not that many problems. sometimes you'd get a brake binding after changing the pads out, but nothing too much to deal with.
what pushed me back to bb7s was bleeding the rear brake on my 5 before an alps trip. when pushing back the pistons there must have been some 'feature' on the side of of of them, that damaged a seal, and also popped the reservoir. there wasn't much coming back from it and it took me a while to work out what was going on, with two faults to find. the bb7s were in the parts bin, and i just figured that if i replaced the hydraulic, i'd have to thread it through the swing arm, and i'd have to bleed another hydro brake. the bb7s just seemed like a straightforward solution.
properly setup with good cables i think they're great.
i still look at the bling hydros and wonder, but for the riding i do, i just don't think there's any point in me changing, for gains which at best are likely to be rather nebulous.

bomberman - Member
...Are any hydraulic brakes reliable?

Yes, for a while....

I've got them on my Vaya..

They are about perfect on that..

What I got when I upgraded from 203/180 BB7s to new 180/180 XT:

a) A really big, clunky, over engineered lever clamp that makes it tricky to comfortably arrange brakes/shifters/dropper lever on the bars
b) An ugly lever/reservoir unit in general
c) A bit of a palaver shortening the hose (partly my fault though)
d) The opportunity to buy a bleed kit to sort c)
e) A bit of a palaver when using d) (it's not hard, but it's a palaver)
f) Howling front disc (possibly caused by e), but I doubt it as discs and pads were kept about 5' away whilst the bleeding was happening)
g) Slightly more powerful brakes, probably.
h) Slightly lighter brakes, probably.
i) About £140 less in my bank account

I'm not sure g) and h) outweigh the rest.

It looks like I'm.sticking with them then.

I run them on my cross bike, they're absolutely brilliant unlike the awful Shimano XTs I have on a couple of other bikes which are also fine and subjectively have better feel and power.

Here's the thing, out in the real world, as opposed to the land of black and white thinking which is STW, it's entirely possible for both BB7s and Shimano XTs and indeed other brakes both/all good in the same way that liking coffee doesn't mean tea is irredeemably awful.

I'm just waiting for the bit where someone argues that well set up cantilevers are as good as fee-brakes, which in turn, when set up properly are as good as disc brakes, so cantis are in fact as good as disc brakes as demonstrated by top cross riders using them for racing 😉

I'm sure that, in there somewhere, there's a point

The point is that actually BB7s and Shimano XTs are both perfectly good brakes. Particularly if you have some basic mechanical competence... 😐

I considered them for my ss/hack build, but you can get brand new deore hydraulics for £65 delivered, they come with a spare olive, a bleed block, and a cutting guide to shorten the hoses. The 'bleed kit', which is just a posh funnel with a thread on the bottom, is about £4, and £5 or so for a little bottle of oil that will last ages.

FWIW, I had never messed with hydraulic brakes before, but it was honestly a piece of piss, you can bleed them in 2 minutes, lever is adjustable, and for me (for now at least), they just work.

Only crap thing is my front won't stop squealing, which I think I'm going to have to put down to contamination, my own fault, the caliper isn't leaking 😳

Ah, gotcha.

Yeah, you're probably right, I can only go from personal experience of two sets of hydro brakes (Mono Minis and XT), both of which necessitated palaver, and four (five?) sets of BB7s, none of which did.

I'd say setting up BB7s is a bit fussy to start off with, the Avid multi-plane washer system is pointless, pad-changing is fiddly in that uniquely rubbish Avid way and winding the pads in regularly is slightly irksome, but basically they're decent cable brakes. I have around five sets of Shimano hydraulics on the go and they're all been flawless bar the odd sticky piston and Deores are an absolute bargain. They're both good brakes ime.

what inners, outers do you guys recommend?

I still use BB7s

Jagwire compressionless outer (or the nashbar version)

Agree with Samurai - they crumble after a winters commuting. The inner plate on both front and rear of mine have corroded into place. Not been able to move 'em. The bolts and washers rust and crumble too when exposed to winter road conditions (also had this with some Juicy 5's on a commuter hack bike). The surface of the callipers (coating) seems to crumble as well.

But, they still work, and are easy to strip down and clean (apart from the frozen solid inner plate). Be careful with the tiny ball-bearings is all I'll say. Spent a good few hours scouring the garage floor once..!

Interested to hear about improvements with new cables. Got the stock ones that came with the bike and they feel a bit "gritty" in movement, rather than smooth. Tried a pull of someone else's in the bike shed and they were buttery smooth compared to mine.

edhornby - Member
what inners, outers do you guys recommend?

Any cable brake can be dramatically improved by careful attention to the cables and levers. Get rigid levers that don't flex and use rigid cable outers and then all your cable movement goes into operating the actual brake rather than taking up flex and compression.

Even cantis can be good when set up properly. 🙂

I use cheap aluminium tubing from B&Q for the bits of outer that don't need to be flexible, and for liner I use small diameter teflon tubing I get from an air tools (as in compressors) supplier.

This gives a very solid feel at the lever. I think it rivals a good hydraulic, but that's my opinion.

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2761/5815154075_7806059efc_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2761/5815154075_7806059efc_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I'm running a gore ride-on cable on the front which has lasted 7 years and a Shimano for the rear. It was a Gore on the rear too until I changed frames and needed a longer cable. They're quite expensive though and hard to find but they're awesome cables.

I agree that probably most hydraulics work well but they have the odd quirk like a mate of mine had the XTs and loved them but we went to.Wales one time and it was -5°C and his brakes just stopped working. They are more complicated by design what with the fluid but cars have been like that for years I suppose. Its just my BB7S are so reliable I can't help thinking that no brake is as hassle free. Deores do get very good word of mouth though. Maybe the only reason people seem to complain about XT more is that they paid more for them in the first place? Either way I'm not made of money so I think I'll use what little spare cash I have to upgrade my drive train instead.

I use cheap aluminium tubing from B&Q for the bits of outer that don't need to be flexible, and for liner I use small diameter teflon tubing I get from an air tools (as in compressors) supplier.

Have you "manipulated" the ali tubing to fit the frame and just have standard outers from the lever to take up steering slack/flex? What do you use at the join?

Edit [url= http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/nails-screws-fixings-hardware/profile-metal-sheets-metal-rods/tubing___metal_rods/-specificproducttype-round_tube/FFA-Concept-Raw-Aluminium-Round-Tube-L-1000mm-x-Dia-6mm-9284008 ]this tubing[/url]?

Edit 2, looks like you're using cable adjusters at the join, but whats going on between the adjuster and the first cable stop on [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/5815153405/in/set-72157626798688927/ ]this pic[/url]?

I am interested in this too !

I have a set of BB7s (very happy with them) and I was going to fit another set on the next build.
Then I saw the TRP Spyre brakes ( non hydro ),and I am now very tempted to try them.
I like the idea of the twin pistons for easier setting up and adjustment.

Anyone using them ?

I have them on my Krampus and CX bike. I see no reason to change. Way less faff than hydraulic and faultless in use.

Switched to Hy-Rds this year after 10 years of BB7s on my commuting bike.
As noted above the BB7s don't stand up to winter commuting very well. The self adjustment on the Hy-Rds makes them easier to set up and keep in trim, and I find the braking more effective.

Why couldn't the OP have started this thread a week ago, then I would have resisted the temptation to try some new XTs 🙁

Fitted a set to my Croix de Fer commute bike about 6 months ago,(as the shimano brakes fell to bits after 3 years of daily commute) had a nightmare on set up! Front is excellent, rear is poo! No bite when pulling the lever, but try and spin the rear wheel, and it stops in seconds! Riding with the pads engaged, over 25 miles is a right bugger!
I've had the brakes in bits, fully serviced it, still not right.
I've come to the conclusion my cables are goosed. Going to change them this weekend.

If that doesn't work................?

[url= http://www.twowheelblogs.com/avid-bb7-disc-brake-set-and-tuning ]sauce[/url]
but in case it goes away for some reason:

Let me start by telling you that there are some goodies in here. I got a lot of this from an online forum, but I added a considerable amount from my own experiences. I am passionate about brake performance, and if you are not also passionate about it, please don't read this. I am very opinionated, and I have developed a lot of frustration over the years dealing with some of these maintenance issues(especially those that involve fixing what someone else did wrong)...I hope what I have learned helps you. I start out with several assumptions (for example, I assume you are using standard cable housing). Some of these tips may not apply to you if you are using special gear...but if you are using special gear, you already know what does not apply to you in here...

Hopefully after you read and understand this, you will have brakes that function in a manner that shows why many prefer mechanical disc brakes over hydraulic.

Start with clean or new pads. Clean the rotors with alcohol and never touch with skin.
Rotors must be true to within .005" on a dial caliper or damn close to it.
You must have avid speed dial levers for this to work. Shimanos with inner adjusters are close but will never do the job as well.
Use locktite on all older caliper and rotor mount bolts, preferably blue 242. This product is in your tool kit right? Any self respecting bike mechanic has this stuff laying around…right next to your torque wrench, and lube.
Loosen caliper adapter bolts slightly and rotate up in the direction of rotors rotation and tighten. You have your torque wrench and know how to use it right?
Loosen caliper mount bolts slightly so caliper can move side to side.
Back out red pad adjusters fully.
Turn inner pad adjuster in fully then back out 10 indexed clicks. If your brakes are all crapped up and you can not feel the clicks, you need to first clean everything with soap and water and start over.
Turn outer pad adjuster in till it bottoms out on rotor. Do not force this step. Rotor should not move in caliper at this time but caliper may move slightly on its adapter.
Tighten caliper mount bolts. You are using a torque wrench right? You know the torque specs right? Look them up! How did you get this far with out them?
With a cable in your lever and housing run to the caliper (all new or in good shape and at proper length I’ll assume) turn barrel adjuster in full.
You have prepped your cable housings right? This means (at minimum) you have used a grinder, Dremel tool, file or equivalent to prep the ends of the housings so that they are perfectly flat with no burs or irregularities? If you believe that cable prep is not necessary or important, stop reading now…these instructions will not help you. This step is near and dear to me because many “professional” bike mechanics have tried to explain that this step is not needed, and they do not even have tools necessary to perform it. Why bother with disc brakes if you are not going to deal with interface issues with cable housing ends?

If your caliper has some miles on it, it might be nice to dab the cable pinch bolt with some wet chain lube, grease, or anti seize.
Use a 4th hand tool to take up any slack in the cable and tighten the pinch bolt. As in step 9, do not force this. If you see movement in the actuator arm, go back to step 7.
Grab a handful of lever and check for cable slack. There should be none. If this is a new cable/housing install, give it 4 pulls to seat everything into operational position then go back to step 13. Do not reef on the lever, you should never have to use more than one finger on your dialed BB7s. Your cables should not stretch during the life of your brakes…BB7s do not rely on high cable tension to work properly, overly tensioning the cables (reefing on the levers) can actually damage the calipers. If you feel much sponge in the brakes, you probably did not prep the housings! Properly tuned BB7s will provide enough braking force with one finger to lock up and throw you OTB…If you don’t have this much brake force, you should definitely be reading this!
Back both pad adjusters out fully.
Turn inner pad adjuster in about 4 indexed clicks, pull lever 3 times, spin wheel and check for rub. Repeat this step till any rub is heard. Once rub is heard, back it out 1 click at a time till it goes away then 2 or 3 more for clearance.
Repeat step 16 for the outer pad adjuster. With an ear close to the rotor, you should hear zero rub of rotor to pads.
Lever throw should suit your style. Too tight? Back out the outer pad adjuster 1 click at a time till feel is reached, not the inner pad.
Now that both brakes are set and working, see how 1 lever feels nice n stiff and the other feels like a fresh turd (firm but not solid)? No problems! That’s just a good short front cable vs. that long rear cable and all its housing compression. Rectify this and modulation feel 1/2 turn at a time of the speed dial knob on your levers. Start with the front knob turned in to soften up the leverage ratio of said cable to match the rears feel. A 1/2 turn goes a long way so take your time.
See that little hex head on the back of the actuator arm? That’s a preload adjuster for the spring tension on the caliper. Turn it in to suit additional lever feel.
I like to trim my cable to about 2" so I can service and re-tune the system several times before replacement is needed. Make damn sure it doesn’t touch or get in the rotor and don’t forget your cable end.
Take up slack in pad wear by repeating these steps.
Now go ride and dig your new brake feel!
Wondering if your avid pads are old and dead? Measure with a micrometer, pad material and backing plate should read no less than 3.00mm. I replace them at 25% or 3.25mm just to be safe. A new avid pad is about 4.00mm.

I use gear cable inners in brake outer to reduce drag between cable and outer. (Doesn't work with old Deore LX v-brake levers though as the nipple pulls through) and it gives a more positive feel and lighter action at the lever. I've yet to die in a humungous fireball in 5+ years of testing this set-up

Also found that Blank BMX levers and the road version of BB7's give a good powerful set-up too (Converted drop bar to flat bar CX)

Oh and anyone got a spare outboard pad adjuster knocking about?

I used these for a couple of years when they were first released and thought they are excellent. Still use them occasionally on my brothers Soul and my opinion is the same.

I am pretty anal about my brake set up and got them working drag free with a lot of power and modulation. They didn't feel spongey and had an awful lot of feel. Since then I've used Some Hope, some Shimano and Formula brakes. It was only on moving to the The Ones about 4 years ago that I really felt the Avids were outclassed. Last years Deores are only on a parr with the BB7's but admittedly my SLX brakes (This years) are better. My Mini's and Mini Mono's were never as good...

The Avid multi-adjust washers are fabulous - especially if you make your own frames and the disc mount might not be 100% parallel to the dropout.....

I'm sure Avid made the Elixirs so unreliable just because they never got any aftersales revenue from BB7s 🙂

BB7's would be a luxury on my Kona - I still have V's 8)

BB7's would be a luxury on my Kona - I still have V's 8)

(I do have Hopes on my other bike though 😉 )

D0NK - Member
Have you "manipulated" the ali tubing to fit the frame and just have standard outers from the lever to take up steering slack/flex? What do you use at the join?

Edit this tubing?

Edit 2, looks like you're using cable adjusters at the join, but whats going on between the adjuster and the first cable stop on this pic?

[i]Edit 1:[/i] That looks like the tubing. I've got a "man in a shed with hand tools" approach to my bodges, so there's nothing very sophisticated about what I do, so basically if it looks like the right diameter for outer, it'll do. 🙂

[i]Edit 2:[/i] I'm using a flexible V-brake part there
[img] [/img]

The type I use has an adjuster on it. I also have used stepped ferrules for the intersection of the cables, so in some cases I have used about 5mm length of larger diameter tubing to form a collar on the 6mm tubing (also available from B&Q, just pick the size that slides over the one you use as outer)

The tubing is easily manipulated just using your hands, mainly your thumbs. Just do it gently because it work hardens so you can't unbend mistakes gracefully. It's cheap enough to make mistakes though. I cut the tube with a very fine hacksaw and use a countersink piece in a hand driver to tidy up the inside of the end.

If your rear wheel is on sliders or track ends, you need to have a short length of standard outer leading up to the disk to allow for wheel adjustment as seen here:

[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2761/5815154075_7806059efc_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2761/5815154075_7806059efc_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Most of my bikes have them as long as you're not doing and fast techy down hill they are perfect

cheers epicyclo, got links for the liners?

I've got a set of unused Avid Pit Stop Full Metal jacket if anyone wants it - unsure of the going rate these days.

Really like to the mountain versions, just fit and forget, but found over 3 years the road versions a constant fiddling, fettling, faff.

Just swapped the road BB7s for TRPs, and despite some initial set-up issues they seem really good. Also hoping they won't be such a problem when fully loaded for touring, the wide profile of the BB7s were a bit of a problem with racks and panniers.

birdage - Member
Really like to the mountain versions, just fit and forget, but found over 3 years the road versions a constant fiddling, fettling, faff...

That's because road levers flex, so by the time you have used up the flex, there's not much cable pull left to operate the brake.

You usually compensate for this by setting the pads close to the disk, so the slightest irregularity in the disk causes rub, hence constant adjustment.

A more rigid outer helps make up for the deficiencies of the lever.