[Closed] Anyone else not get on with hardtails?

Although hardtails are great fun, I still feel like there is a time and a place for travel out back (even if all you ride are trail centres) to get the most out of the ride. At the end of the day, I can't go riding every day and when I do I want to have as much fun as possible and push myself, and sometimes having a hardtail allows you to do this. Other times a full sus will be ideal.

Indeed, it's nice to have both types of steed in your quiver 🙂

the best rider i know, and he did come from a bmx background, and was very very good, can ride any line he chooses, but ive never seen him ride his hard tail, its full suss every time.

I came from a BMX background but I have always favoured rigid single speed which I always put down to wanting something more in the mold of a BMX. Have even used a 24" race BMX in place of MTB a few years back.
So doesn't really prove anything other than they sold out to gears and suspension 🙂

Interesting replies, but did you all miss the bit where I said I had a fully rigid? It's not that I [i]can't[/i] ride anything but a FS, more that I don't like both ends of the bike not feeling the same. I'm perfectly capable of riding without suspension, thank-you very much!

If you read my first reply you'll see that I'm on a fully rigid bike. I only have one MTB

No problem going downhill on mine but pancaking my vertebrae on lumpy bumpy tech climbs really does get tiresome quite quicky

but did you all miss the bit where I said I had a fully rigid?

Nah, we saw that bit but when there's the tiniest chance to start an argument, STW's all over it 😆

I sometimes yank my 24" BMX out for laughs and misery. It's bloody hard work!

thestabiliser - Member

No problem going downhill on mine but pancaking my vertebrae on lumpy bumpy tech climbs really does get tiresome quite quicky

stand up more/lots.

easy.

Am already quite a "standy" climber, maybe I should get off and push.

Or buy a new 29er hardtail for all that rolloverabilitiness.....hmmmmm

^ that (the standing up thing).

My knees don't like hardtails any more 🙁

I got no interest in riding hard tails. Built one up, used it twice off road and hated it. Couldn't ride it as fast which to me is a major part of my enjoyment. Just too much of a compromise in south wales.

The whole picking lines I think is rubbish, you can because you ride slower on a hard tail.

I get the impression that Steve Jones of Dirt magazine is pretty much anti hardtail too, or at least doesn't see the point of them.

Equally there are guys at Dirt who love them. Check out their review of the Ti Switchback mark two.

I have basically always ridden hardtails (always steel) with only brief dalliances into FSdom, and I haven't owned a proper modern full suspension bike. Last FSer I owned was a Marin Wolf Ridge

I'm probably not best to tell you the differences but I can tell you this.

Forks with linear spring rates are a bit of a pain especially when you get over 120mm travel, you end up compensating for shit spring rate with damping which isn't ideal. Current bike has Pikes and the Token system really helps with this.

Rear wheels on "trail hardtails" get a hammering, 29ers seem to be less susceptible to this as the rear wheel skips over stuff more than a 26/27.5er.

Spent 18 months riding rigid 29 and 29+ bikes and I found that whilst they are ace for mile munching and slower technical riding they (unsurprisingly) struggle when things get faster and rougher.
When the time came to for a new bike (old ones were nicked) I decided a 140mm forked 29er hardtail would be the right tool for the job. And to be fair it is...

Got 2 x hardtails. A cotic BFe and a racey 29er from Canyon. Both great bikes, and love riding them. Tried the Full Suss (Rose Granite Chief and a Santa Cruz Nickel, but tbh I will always prefer my Hardtails.)

agree with the OP, I only ride rigid bikes, inc. a BMX, or the full sus.
Hardtail is the worst of both worlds IMO

I was in Morzine last week. Since I was on my own and not smashing out laps with the 'Bros' I left the DH bike in the shed for a few days and did everything I'd normally do on my YT Tues on a Cotic Bfe.

It was actually really fun. Much slower but with a much higher sensation of speed. I'd compare it to barrelling down the lanes in a classic car compared to sitting at 140mph in a plush German mile muncher. Much more stuff to concentrate on.

It stopped being fun between trails. On the flat-out fire road sections where I would normally sit down and rest my brakes I had to reign it in as I felt that's where I was more likely to have a massive crash.

So anyway, yeah, bikes are fun.

At the age of 42, i LOVE that feeling of hustling a hardtail at speed through some roughstuff.

At the age of 42, however, my back is starting to really not like that same feeling 😯

I've not long rebuilt my only HT ... with rigid forks.
None of my bicycles now have suspension - I don't seem to get on with it.
I'm an old man now tho', so I don't spose I'm missing out on much.

As an aside, but in the interests of completeness, whilst I don't mind gears, I don't really like indexed shifting either, so tend to build stuff with friction shifting where ever possible.

I know someone who never got on with hardtails who then recommended to everyone he knew who had just started to ride to go fs immediately. He rides very well, but as a result there are a bunch of riders who ride fs sat down all the time.

I think it's preference. I have a nice HT and a nice FS, mostly I ride them in the same places depending on my mood. I do tend toward summer HT and winter FS which I know is 'wrong' but works for me. If I'm nervous about somewhere for any reason I'll probably always go for the FS and also if I'm carrying an injury.

I don't quite subscribe to the 'HT makes you a better rider' thing, but it certainly teaches you to pay more attention to line, and gets you riding loose "in" the bike properly (unless you want to be kicked silly). TBH the biggest problem o have jumping between HT and FS on the same trails is remembering that the frame compresses on the FS and there's places I can't full-crank without smacking a pedal into a rock that would have been fine on the HT...

Suspension both ends; fine, feels balanced, don't care how much travel.
Rigid both ends; fine, feels balanced.
Hardtail; nope, feels wrong.

Yes I have definitely had this feeling for exactly the same reasons.

I made an almost identical post about 5 years ago.

However when I was younger I ran a hardtail no problems and now I do tend to run my 29er hardtail with 80mm of suspension in the winter/for races.

So tastes can change.

But I do prefer the 29er with rigid forks if I can get away with them. Although on the downs the Suspension is good it just makes the bike feel "bobby" when climbng/on the flat.

Never got on with hardtails either. Spent ten years riding rigid then went straight to short-travel FS. Now can't stand on pedals for more than about 90secs due to neurological bollocks and age. Either ride rigid or 150mm trail bike. Hardtails just don't suit me.

My 3 favourite descents are Parkamoor to Nibthwaite, The Beast, and Cavedale. My bike is a Mk1 Soul. I sometimes borrow a friend's Trek Remedy for 3 day trips. I find that while I end up less beat up on the Trek those lovely sections aren't half as much of a challenge and are over too soon. Where's the fun in that? And don't say go faster because at my age the resulting tumble gets a bit serious.

I hit 'peak HT' about 2008 with my lovely Cove Hummer. Brilliant for the Chilterns and the occasional trip away. Then moved here (FoD/Malverns) and went back to FS (had a few nasty ones before. Ellsworth ISIS anyone?) and eventually sold all the HT's. Then bought a non chubby Trek Stache to ride in the winter. Which soon morphed into a chubby trek stache via a Calibre Dune fat bike.

Chubby works for me, still get the HT hit especially on loamy/fast singletrack but also a bit of cush for the aging back. Having the trek and and Aeris works for me as local means HT, weekends / trips away means FS.

Although I am demo-ing a Cotic Flare Max in a couple of weeks, That might end financially badly...

Ragged t'on one down parkamoor today. Just one ohshitohshitohshit losing the back in a rock garden moment. Good times

My brother-in-law always went on about me still riding a HT (C456) and how I'd be a much stronger rider when I went full suss (which id planned for my 40th - bike arrived last week) to which I always responded, "you've only ridden FS so you should try it; you might improve your skills - to which he laughs. One day we swapped before a fairly easy trail. His Trance was cramped for me but was ok. Finished the trail and 5mins later he turned up moaning "how the hell do I ride these things". He'd tanked it, bent the bars, covered it and him in shite, generally came a cropper due to poor line choice and bad positioning - I revelled for the rest of that ride.

I can't wait to ride my new bike in anger but I'm keeping the HT and it will continue to amaze me.

Exactly, you cannot ride a HT like a FS, you have to look for the HT line rather than letting the shock take the hit at the back. Roots are a pain in the arse though.

I rode a hardtail for quite a while before switching. It was those hits at the back which made me fear for the wheel switched me to a FS. The other thing was my ass, which also agrees the FS is better (for me).

I got a short travel (100mm) FS bike ('10 Santa Cruz Superlight) and absolutely love it. When time comes to upgrade I think I could sometimes do with something a bit slacker on the geometry side of things, but other than that its awesome 🙂

I definitely felt that it was too much bike for me when I first got it, it just wanted to go fast. I'm much more used to it now. I still try to pick the best line, but knowing you can get-out-of-shit without getting overly bounced and pinged around makes snap route decisions in the moment less panicky. There are things i'll go over on my FS that I would have avoided on my HT.

Also there are lots of misinformation there about FS, like losing power climbing etc. Lock out the suspension if need be!

So.. I think that FS can be more forgiving, and agree that learning the ropes on a HT is a good idea as it will give you that 'insight' for line choice. (or you'll end up like the chap in paulneenan76's anecdote)

I've never ridden a full suss, of any kind, ever. I don't feel like i'm missing out on anything, so long as i'm out riding the trails/.

As others have said, it's all about your personal idea of fun. I've ridden mainly hardtails (peaks, local Macc routes and occasional trail centres and visits further afield). I tried full suss, but found it boring. It took away the fear and always thinking and choosing line elements of the ride. That for me is where the fun lies. It also feels like you're going a hell of a lot quicker than you actually are on a HT in my experience. Had lots of bikes, but really loving my current slack(ish) 29er HT.

If the majority of your riding is trail centres or rough stuff such as those trails around Ladybower then a FS is ideal otherwise a HT is more than enough.

I've never really ridden a good full susser, but I have found when riding a hard tail fast, the back wheel can kick up and cause a scare, mind you my saddle is quite high for pedaling, maybe I need a dropper post..

I've just built up a plus sized HT and am half wondering if I need my Full Suss at all!! Certainly in the Surrey Hills and South Downs, I am almost as quick on the bumpier stuff and way quicker on the twisty stuff and climbs.

That said...went to BP Wales and was glad I was on the Full Bouncer! I love the both in their own way! Why choose when you can do n+1

I don't think it's about "not getting on" with Hardtails, it's just the ride is different, and if all you are used to is a FS then it's going to take a while to adapt your style to them.
I think everyone should start out with a hardtail, then you can buy a FS.
And then there you go...instant perfect bike shed, then you can pick and choose between the 2 depending on what you want out of your next ride.
Personally I love the ride you can get out of a hardtail, and I just chose to race the full 'Ard Rock on one, so they can be more than capable for most riding terrain.

Rode rigid and hardtail for 5 years, swapped to FS in 2000. Built up another hard tail a few years ago, but try as I might I can't gel with it like my FS bikes. Demoted to mud plugging duties, FS all the way for me.

I appreciate the input, but please read the first post properly! It's not about only being able to ride FS, or FS vs. HT - I was trying to see if anyone else didn't get on with having squish at one end but not the other. I love riding rigid offroad; how many HT riders would..? 😉

Maybe the thread should be entitled "Does anyone else find hardtails unbalanced compared to rigid or FS?"

Spend some time sorting the fork out.
My FS is set up far softer and ramps up far less than the HT.

i reckon a lot of it is the population changes over the years. We're all older and fatter. So the 12" of travel you used to have on the back of your hardtail when you were in your 20s and weighed 70 kilos now gets tired quickly and either locks out, packs down or needs to have a sit down and a rest after 10 minutes. 😉

And FWIW I've tried a long travel hardtail. It was bloody horrible.
That changing of the HT angle and the feeling of being about to pitch over the bars and the amount the handling changed during the travel was awful. Don't think you'd be able to fettle forks to get over that. Unless you made them ramp up so much that they became short travel forks. Which sort of negates the point of a long travel HT.

See, that's exactly the feeling I'm talking about - that pitching forward unevenness. I run the forks on my FS with the HSC wide open (maybe one click), but a fair bit of LSC to stave off the brake dive. Just couldn't get the (more basic) forks on the HT to feel right so ended up just winding on the compression damping/lockout so they were only active on big hits.

Forks have come on significantly in the last ten(?) years or so. Those on my Mt Vision would pitch/dive at every opportunity no matter how I set them up but the X-Fusions on the HT were much more controllable.

Putting a decent set of forks on your HT would seem to be the answer (or go some way towards it)

I personally think a dropper on a hardtail is as important/useful as on a FS bike (for normal riding)

Your legs are the suspension on a hardtail so you need the saddle out the way, if it's bumpy you can't sit and spin as you're getting bucked up all the time

On a FS (not that I've ridden one for any distance) the suspension provides the travel to let you sit

Then ride a good slack hardtail with forks as good as your FS bike then - it's not difficult is it. A great hardtail with great forks and good tyre choice will be a better ride than a boggo FS bikes with spindly forks. I've got an older set of dual air Revs on my HT and they are top notch. No diving, tuneable etc., so I don't find the above issue familiar at all.

I have a HT and FS, don't find the HT unbalanced. I generally ride them on different terrain though. FS for rougher terrain and HT for lesser rough terrain, I think if the terrain is really rough with lots of big rocks the HT is less fun guess you could consider that an imbalance. Considering converting the Hat to rigid in the winter with carbon forks just to try it out.

I have a Stanton Slackline which is my first suspension fork bike after a few rigids. I cannot get on with it at all... glad to hear I am not the only one who feels pitched far too forward on the bike and suffer from the terrifying 'fork dive'. I have been over the bars three times, and wasn't even doing anything particularly testing. Coming from a rigid I always rode on the back wheel, and now with the sus fork people told me ride more on the front wheel. I just don't feel safe riding that way, I am used to weighting the back and have the front wheel sketchy, not the other way around. However at 6ft2 I have always had the nagging feeling that the large frame is too small for me which may be partly to blame, but my next bike will be longer top tube and max 100mm front suspension for sure. Or rigid.

I ride all my bikes off the back wheel - I just ride them better that way. It's particularly noticeable riding my hardtail - way more control and speed standing tall on the pedals and light on the bars, than leaning on the bars in that "ride the fork" way.

Most people giving technique advice don't know what they're talking about, even great riders. They'll often incorrectly analyse what they do and then tell you to ride differently to how they really ride. See Neil Donoghue's drop coaching video for a prime example of "do what I say, which isn't actually what I do..."