[Closed] Anyone else giving up on mail order?

For bike stuff?

If my LBS’ can’t get hold of a thing, I’ll order online.

It’s very rare my LBS’ can’t get hold of something.

I live in the highlands, I don’t have any real choice.

I do tend to pick and choose who I order from. There are people I trust and they get my money, not necessarily the cheapest though...

I'm increasingly using my LBS, because it won't be there if I don't. Maybe it's me getting older and appreciating value more than just cost.

I would use our local shops more, but their stock of parts is limited. Loads of bikes in, but typically I’m in there to buy bits to keep current bikes working.

I’ve never been bothered by the proliferation of standards, but I’m sure it is making things harder for bike shops to keep the bits you need in stock.

I find Merlin are usually superb, I’d prefer to give them my cash if they are there or thereabouts on price.

I'd love to do that but my LBS usually costs twice as much as buying stuff online. To be fair the only major issue I've ever had buying online is with Canyon not shipping a bike.

Almost exclusively shop at my two LBS these days. Internet shopping has dumbed down what we’re prepared to expect in terms of quality, returns and customer service, and I’m willing to pay a little more to see something in advance and have some advice when buying these days.

Recent LBS experiences have soured me, have gone away with the genuine impression that I know more than the staff, and on the rare occasions I've asked them to order stuff they didn't normally stock, they've ballsed it up in embarrassing fashion.

Also, returns and customer service from Wiggle, Merlin, Rose, Bike24.de and Bikediscount.de have all been above and beyond.

Will still order fully built bikes from LBS though, if only because of Cycle-to-work...

OP - have you tried Synergy in Auchterarder for LBS stuff? Mostly road & gravel stuff there, but their service is really good.

I use them most of the time nowadays.

One of my lbs's is great for odds and ends to sort bikes out (im a rubbish customer though, most ive ever spent in one go was £20). The other, the guy behind the counter actually looked embarrassed when a set (f+r) of brake pads came to £35, i know they have overheads that uberbike etc dont, but at that price I can order each of my bikes a set of race matrix pads, and a set of organic pads as spares so I dont run out. Not just one set of organic pads!

Online, bought quite a few bits from evans this year as i can collect stuff. Ditto halfords.

On one are their usual selves, some stuff is a genuine bargain, like odd coloured bar tape for £1.
Other stuff is just cheap.

Crc/wiggle, youre buying from a warehouse run by venture capitalists.

I live in the highlands, I don’t have any real choice

This, basically. Whether it's bike stuff or anything else from Amazon I can have it on my doorstep normally within 48 hrs, often sooner. I have almost infinite choice too. Its not even a cost thing.

I couldn’t afford any of my bikes if they were from a shop, or any of the bits.
Never had a problem TBH.

I never pay RRP so mail order takes 90% of my hard earned, plus a hate wasting my time and walking out of bike shops empty handed, what are the odds of your LBS stocking any of the items on your list, I have two decent bike shops several miles away but still have to order online then collect a few days later. Years ago I tried to use my most local shop, they kept me on the hook for over a week, lying to me and they weren't very knowledgeable either, gave up and ordered from CRC, arrived two days later, could have saved a weeks wait.

As from today I won’t use BikeInn again. A week late with a pair of tyres they claimed to have in stock. The Royal Mail tracker was still saying “we’re expecting it” 3 days after BikeInn claimed to have dispatched them.

gave up on crc years ago.

I couldn’t afford any of my bikes if they were from a shop, or any of the bits.

I bet you could if there was no internet.

My LBS can get anything.
As an aside I went to Spa Cycles in Harrogate (9 miles away) when I was after a Sturmey Archer gear cable for an old Raleigh bike my stepson had left behind when he moved out. Guy said, 'you might be able to get one online', phoned my 'LBS', Bike Scene in Guisborough (35 miles away) who said, 'aye, can get you one for Thursday, I'll post it out. Bosh, job done.

SJS cycles were good to me, fairly big setup without the flashing banners of crc.

Just me?
(Yes I am a grumpy bigger).

And unlucky as well !!!

I've ordered from all of the companies you mentioned (apart from Radon) loads of times over the last 15+ years and never had an issue apart from one with Evans where I ordered one of the bargain Madison jackets about 3 months back, got the run around for 2 months and eventually told no stock so card refunded. No big deal, in fact they did me a favour. It was just another jacket I didn't need 🙂

SJS cycles were good to me

+1. Also used SJS for 15 yrs now. Never a problem. Got to walk the entire warehouse nearly 20 yrs back to view an Ice Trice recumbent. Really old-school setup with sliding wooden ladders and (to memory) endless stacks of shelving that towered up into dusty darkness. I was like an overgrown kid in a bike shop. Nothing new there then 😋

Not giving up, but mail order companies who don't put a returns form in with the package, why is this so difficult? Why make me download and print my own? I don't have a printer at home and I'm not in the office much. It can be on the same bit of paper as the invoice/ delivery note for goodness sake. First world problem I know, but it's frikking annoying! Pedalon, Sigma and Planet X are the most recent culprits.

I've got no choice really.

My lbs is, well, just not very good. That's not a reflection on all lbs, just mine ok?

Im prepared to put up with the odd mail order issue as I find that preferable to putting up with dealing with said lbs.

I've also made a concerted effort to buet most of the tools I need to service and repair things. It has saved me a fortune and I enjoy tinkering anyway so it's a win win.

I've found Planet X to be good at sorting stuff out. Twice I've had problems with an order, and both times it's been resolved on live chat in just a couple of minutes.

Obviously it's better if mistakes aren't made in the first place, but as long as it's sorted quickly I'm ok with that.

I purchase around 95% of everything by mail order/delivered (including food).

Shops don't tend to have the items I need so why get them to order it when I can order it?

As for bike shops, they know less than me about my specific bike and choice of bikes so not even any staff experience worth paying for.

Not giving up, but mail order companies who don’t put a returns form in with the package, why is this so difficult? Why make me download and print my own?

Returning something is rare overall I'd imagine. Leaving it to the customer saves paper/ink/power, excellent idea imho.

So all these folks that only use their LBS. Presumably you also use the local butcher, baker and candlestick maker too right? 😉

@roger_millie because it's another way to save costs, however small. Also I'd bet you get less returns that way.

I would love to use my LBS except it’s basically a store front for Giant and stock almost nothing else (nor do they seem keen to order stuff for you). Other shops are more than an hours round trip and more often than not don’t have what you want anyway.

If the LBS needs to order something then I’m quicker, cheaper and easier to order it myself. On the (let’s be honest - very rare) occasion it goes wrong it’s a pain but 9 times out of 10 it doesn’t.

No, I've had no problems with Merlin, Winstanleys, Sprockets, SJS, Ribble, Bike-Discount, Rose, High On Bikes, PX and many others. Some minor gripes with CRC customer service but that's about it.
I'll still do most of my purchasing online and maintenance myself but have started using an LBS (CJ Performance) for bits and bobs and it is nice to chat with a human about bike stuff now and then

I am struggling.

LBS's to here are costly in comparison to online and can lack stock. For example one local shop was £18.99 for set of disc pads (!) and didn't have any men's large lycra or inner shorts in stock...

That said, Comrie seems to be ace for stock now.

I'm just frustrated. I feel the world moved online, putting LBS at disadvantage and out of business, now online seems to have lost its appeal and a general lack of brilliance...

It seems you've just been unlucky Matt. Someone up there said mail order worked 9 times out of ten. I'd put it more like 99 times out of 100.

I had a brief engagement with a bike shop person on Twitter this week. She was complaining that customers were coming in to her shop with armloads of online-bought parts to have them fitted, without giving her a chance to compete on sales. When I suggested she just needed to make the workshop a profit centre, she said they'd then not come to thd shop at all. I think it's pretty obvious that's not a sustainable business model.

I can only recall one issue with a set of wheels I ordered from superstar some year's ago, in what must be 1000's of on line purchases over the year's. I have even found that none cycling specific retailers like Blacks are offering decent prices on some bits I've needed lately and service has been good.
It was the poor service I received from a number of lbs's over the years that led me to learn how to service my bikes and build them up, and I wouldn't think twice if I never set foot in one again. As a concept I think it's a shame lbs's have such a hard time, and hopefully some are looking at things like customer experience in order to survive and prosper. Saying this, I have started to pick up bits and bobs from one near me over the last year, as it's convenient and they are friendly enough, but we are talking small item purchases which I doubt will keep them in business. Truth be told I wouldn't even consider them for purchase of bigger items and if I changed jobs and it was no longer convenient I would never go again.

Yeah, I reckon I've had a higher percentage of "issues" in shops than I've had online.

Not giving up, but mail order companies who don’t put a returns form in with the package, why is this so difficult? Why make me download and print my own?

To maybe save a few trees? Only a small percentage of customers want to return the item but everyone should get a piece of paper they throw away?

The returns form could be printed on the back of the receipt listing the parts included in the order? (Edit: Alpkit do this)

Back on-topic: not had a problem with CRC. I'll use a LBS occasionally and don't mind when the price differential is say 10% but baulk when it's 50% or more but does depend on urgency of when I need the item. I'll always buy shoes from shops.

To be fair you're listing a group of companies that mainly sell stuff at barely any margin. You can't expect to get consistently great customer service, hold all the stock they offer, and pay < 10% over cost - that is the trade off. Having said that you do also sound unlucky, Ive ordered from several of them many times over the years and had not one issue except for some SS wheels that needed retensioning which they did promptly.

Is this some sort of "LBS Owners Guild" funded post, care of Cambridge Analytica?

I've always had great service from the three online outlets I use regularly - Merlin, Wiggle and Cyclestore. Stuff arrives on time, and is cheaper than any LBS round here.

The few times I've ventured into an LBS in recent years the service has been atrocious. My last experience was calling up my local Giant stockist to enquire how much it would cost to replace some worn frame bearings on my Anthem. They were completely disinterested, couldn't give me a price, couldn't do the work for two weeks, didn't seem to even want the business so I just bought the bearing replacement tool kit online (Cyclestore) and did it myself.

Another experience a few years before going in to an independent bike shop in Leeds with cash in my pocket to buy a new hardtail saw the shop assistant refusing to let me sit on two different sizes of the same bike (let alone take them for a spin in the car park) "because you'll just go online and buy it cheaper once you've sized yourself up here".

Been using Merlin as my go to for over 10 years now, up until the best stocked bike shop in Scotland opened 10 miles up the road.

Sprockets

gave up on crc years ago

Your loss really. Some amazing deals and good service overall IME.

When I suggested she just needed to make the workshop a profit centre, she said they’d then not come to thd shop at all.

I think the three week wait for workshop slot at Stirling Bike Doctor who only does repairs, minimal parts like brake pads, begs to differ. His workshop is hidden in a business park, and I've never seen him advertise.

You're right, I may have been unlucky.

Exactly, but she just didn't seem to see that this could be an option.

Evans: order online, pick up (and check items) in store.

Mail order via internet is the new normal.

I think more people have given up on LBSs, for a mixture of reasons

My two main LBSs also happen to be among the biggest Internet retailers (aside from Chiggle obvs), I use them a fair amount including for buying bikes, but they still don't always have the item I need in stock.

To maybe save a few trees? Only a small percentage of customers want to return the item but everyone should get a piece of paper they throw away?

As I said earlier, it doesn't have to be a separate piece of paper. Planet X have sent me a delivery note with my recent order that has:

My name, address, phone number and email; the item number, description and quantity; and a return address;

But they still want me to download and print another form. Hardly saving trees, is it? They could just allow me to circle the item(s) on the delivery note I want to return. But as someone suggested, perhaps they want to discourage returns generally....

Luckily I'm in between 2 great bike shops, if one doesn't have what I want the other will. I'm not agnostic about mail order, but I'll always try the shops first.

Freewheel.co.uk seem to have an interesting idea. Run by Madison they use the lbs network to distribute stock. Free postage if you pick up from the lbs and plenty of discounts.

WRT returns a few folk (sportpursuit springs to mind) let you generate a QR code that you take to the Post Office for them to print the label. I think wiggle do something similar with ASDA as the label printers. Works well and reduces the number of labels going to landfill.

Luckily I have a great LBS that I've used for a long time so the majority of my bike spend is with them. I do occasionally order stuff online if I can't get to them or if it's something that they don't deal with, occasionally it'll be because the price is just too good! I made the decision about 2 years ago to avoid relying on online orders as a default and on the whole it's saved me money as it cuts down on the frivolous purchases. I may have been able to save a decent amount on the stuff that I have bought from the LBS but it's more than made up by when they've helped me out of a hole just before a trip and dealt with the insurance claim after I was doored.

Non-bike stuff I order online a lot more but the amount of times I've had failed deliveries or the wrong items sent means I rarely rely on it, even Amazon Prime deliveries are a ballache to their lockers as they always seem to be full or can't accept what I'm ordering!!

Giving up on mail order? Uh. No. Very unlikely.

Sure, you have to wait a bit and it can sometimes go wrong, and there is a bit more hassle with returns but that's the bit you have to accept to benefit from much better prices, vastly wider choice and availability and convenience.

The alternative is having to wait for the weekend because of my working hours, and waste a minimum of 30 minutes travel time, plus whatever time it takes to deal with: a) undoubtedly skilled cool kids living the bike shop dream who are nearly too important in their own bubble to actually attend to customers, b) explain your needs to someone who clearly knows less about bikes and indeed, how to work a brain than I do, only to find it's not in stock, but they can get it in, taking longer than it would via mail order and for more money.

I've lost count of the number of times and hours I've wasted travelling to local bikeshops only to be greeted with blank stares or not in stock answers. It's a hard lesson in self sufficiency, but LBS's in my area have made me default to mail order and hold spares in advance for common consumables.

Matt, try Keith at Mugdock Cycles, its a wee bit further that ccb but very mtb focussed, santa cruz dealer and has loads stock if craig and dr bike are all booked up.

Only issue I have with online is the wasteful packaging....

Here’s the box I got from my last online order (from seemingly the only shop in Europe to have what I needed)

https://flic.kr/p/2hy8ye9

Guess what it was? Nope, a pair of rims(reason for the scarcity is that I need a 27.5 rim with 36 holes, that doesn’t weigh as much as the moon)