[Closed] And you still gets slagged off for buying online (LBS content).......

Don't blame you. Merlin used to be my local when they were in ormskirk

I'm happy to pay a bit of a premium - lbs tax - to be able to walk out of the shop with it there and then. Once it becomes we'll order it in then it's online for me

They didnt have the stuff as expected but if I popped along, opened an account, and gave them 25% as deposit

Whats that all about ?

Did you tell then you just wanted to buy some bike bits not to buy the lease for the shop ?

My LBS just told me to buy it online as they didn't hold stock, they even suggested a place. But they never seem to have anything I want in.

I like to buy from the local shop where i can, even if its a few quid more as i know the guy very well, but when i got quoted £450 including discount for an XT groupset WITHOUT brakes or discs its a no brainer really.

The only thing Local shops have is stock, the ability for the customer to walk out of the shop that day with it.
'we could order it for you'
mean I can get it and then you can come back and pay/collect it. whereas online they'll deliver it to your home.
If the local shop can't keep something in stock they don't get my business.

mikey-simmo - Member

The only thing Local shops have is stock

What planet are you on? How wrong can you get? LBS don't have the resources to stock everything

I dont subscribe to the whole SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BIKE SHOP.

There are two kinda close to me, and both have arrogant and rude owners.
This I could maybe over-look. But every job they do for you they charge and every item costs considerably more than on-line ... so why support the local bike shop?

Blacklug - Member
I dont subscribe to the whole SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BIKE SHOP.

There are two kinda close to me, and both have arrogant and rude owners.
This I could maybe over-look. But every job they do for you they charge

Whatever next? I take it you work for nothing? 😆

Bassspine - I think you're missing the point. There's various advantages of an LBS but probably the most important is being able to walk out with one of the cycling staples - tube, tyre, chain, cable, hose, cassette etc which the bloody well should stock. I'm not saying they should have one of everything but for those interchangeable bits go they should have something which makes your bike rideable and saves you missing a ride.

Lbs's mostly rely on low end bike stuff, it costs them far more to source quality components than your run of the mill millionaire shops wiggle/crc/evans/merlin etc.
It's similar to taking yer car to halfords/arnold shark/main dealerships to your local garage.
Some independent garages/Lbs's are great/average/poor, find one that suits you, or continue to support the mass buying outfits.

richcc - Member
I think you're missing the point.

FFS richc, you're missing the point, mikey simmo says all LBSs have is stock and thats plain wrong.
I work in a small bike shop. People come in expecting us to stock a 1998 rockshox spring in 210lb weight or a 2025 xtr electronic rear derailleur and get funny if we don't have one or if wiggle sell it for less than our trade price. Obviously we stock inner tubes and cassettes in the most commonly needed sizes, but people seem to expect blood.

We'd love to be able to go 'oh yes sir a four year old mavic freehub body, we have all the sizes' but we just can't keep everything in stock

steffybhoy - Member
Lbs's mostly rely on low end bike stuff, it costs them far more to source quality components than your run of the mill millionaire shops wiggle/crc/evans/merlin etc.
It's similar to taking yer car to halfords/arnold shark/main dealerships to your local garage.
Some independent garages/Lbs's are great/average/poor, find one that suits you, or continue to support the mass buying outfits.

except that main dealers or such for cars tend to charge an arm and a leg. unlike little local garage, who do things quite reasonable/cheap pricing/for biscuit contributions.

I just subscribe to the "you'll miss it when its gone" school of thought.

Case in point being CD shopping in Edinburgh. I loved flicking through the decent selection of CDs that FOPP/HMV/Avalanche held between them, but now we're down to one of each shop and their selection could best be described as 'the dregs'. How hard should it be to find "Howl" by BRMC f.f.s? Its supposedly the best album of a fairly big, recent band...

Buying music off the web just depresses me, and I would hate my bike shopping to be reduced to that.

That said, its difficult for CD shops to offer stinky customer service, which is the OP's point I guess.

What put me off most of the LBSs, is that the only things an LBS offer me that I can't get online is spannering and trying on kit. But half of them have no changing rooms, no mirrors, and poor workshops. I had to phone 4 shops before i found one that could face a brake mount FFS, 3 before I could find one who could chase out a BB shell's threads. All those shops are great at selling middle-of-the-road kit at very high prices though.

TBC, without being sycophantic, is a very good LBS. Good stock, good people, good prices. But most in my experience aren't. I've had better service over the years from Halfords than from independants in general.

my local bike shop is awesome, i break it they fix it.

i needed a 31.8 to 25.4 shim for a handlebar, they had one, gave me it free, bar a deposit in the charity box.

same happens when i need them to sort out my tubeless tyres or any of the the other really rather annoying tasks i put their way.

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

My LBS I have mixed feelings about. When I suggested I might look at buying a bike from him on C2W, he wasn't really interested, he's more into his roadie stuff than mtb. But when I'm looking for small parts like rotor bolts or front mech shims, he can't be more helpful. Odd.

But I'm going to keep supporting him because when I need that small something tomorrow afternoon, I can get it in less than half an hour.

The LBS nearest my work has decent stock but charges RRP on every single thing, and proper takes the piss on labour.

For example a guy I know got charged £250 for a 'Gold' service on his rockhopper which involved 'cleaning', fitting a couple of mud guards and replacing some aging bits of the drive train - with Altus!

I have no idea how they manage it but there are always people dropping bikes off and picking them up when I'm in there browsing and sucking air though my teeth.

Bike shops vary an awful lot. Although they all stock similar things they will all have their own specialities which they will probably keep more of. They all have different staff which obviously makes a difference.

The problem with independent shops is even when they do try and keep 1 of everything, it only takes 1 person to come in before you and buy it before its gone! And limited finances and space mean it is impossible to keep enough stock to satisfy everyone.

my local bike shop is awesome, i break it they fix it.

i needed a 31.8 to 25.4 shim for a handlebar, they had one, gave me it free, bar a deposit in the charity box.

same happens when i need them to sort out my tubeless tyres or any of the the other really rather annoying tasks i put their way.

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

I'm biased, I work there on a Sunday 😛
never ceases to amaze me how much work/ random spare bits we do for biscuits/ charity donations 😛

The beauty of the internet is that it means the people who think the lbs should kiss their ass when they drop in to buy a cheap part now have somewhere to shop. 🙂

I mix and match, depends what it is, how quickly I want it, what mood I'm in. Probably spend 50:50 LBS / online. My LBS is brill, owners really good, knows me by site now as do his staff (who are also excellent). It's taken a while to build up but I have a really good relationship with them (and I get an automatic 10% of for being a regular 😉 ). I definitely use them if I want some adivce or want to try things on (clothing etc., not asking the p*ss).

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

Indeed, only charged me a tenner to order and fit new bearings in one of my hubs. Nice people as well 🙂 I'm yet to use them for much else though other than buying the odd spares if I don't want to wait for it off the internet.

My lbs are shocking so can kiss my butt 😀 i am buying my next bike from a nslbs ( not so local bike shop). As the guy who owns it sponsors my triathlete/ironman mate and is getting me a blimming good deal 😀

having read the posts it seems the best thing to do is use the lbs who looks after you...we look after loadsa people and it must work because a fair few come in weekly...

the only people im not interested in is some of the people above who dont appreciate service and everything comes down to price...theyre conversely not welcome.but you get good and bad customers! i think im going to start a free local bike shop experience and then maybe some customers would see what the issues are..

My LBS is all road stuff so completely pointless for me to go into. But he's a nice bloke and some of those bikes are really nice looking........

There are a few lbs round to choose from.

The nearest one is run by an obsessive roadie who sells mountain bikes but sneers at mtb'ers. He's a prize tool and so ignorant I will never return.

One lbs is superb but a bit further away. If I buy parts from him he fits them for nothing. Great service and when I've needed repairs at short notice he's always gone the extra mile to get it done.

Another is a large family lbs - again friendly service and where I tend to get bike clothing as there is a good choice and they are always very helpful.

The other lbs specialises mainly in mtb stuff but their attitude is all wrong. The guys who run it seem more interested in chatting with 'regular' customers or amongst themselves than actually helping anyone else.

I would be happy to pay significantly more in a shop for: good friendly efficient service, advice, good attitude, discount and reduced/no charges for fitting (stuff I had bought there).

Mostly now I buy online for: ease of shopping/delivery, choice, I don't have to put up with being patronised, I don't damage my bike when fixing it/fitting new parts and it costs less too!

I'm happy to pay a bit more in my LBS, but that's only because they always give me excellent service. I don't, and can't afford to, buy everything there, but i like dealing with them, so use them when I can. Keep up the good work 18bikes.

my LBS makes me coffee, they build my wheels,i have bought 4 bikes from them myself, they fit stuff i haven't got the tools to fit my self, this is why i have recommended 5 people to them to buy their first proper MTBs, i still buy stuff they don't stock (no one can stock everything) online though, i think that's fair?

Wish I lived near a good LBS. Locals ones are just silly - incompetent mistakes in one, long waits for service appointments in the other. The best service I have had is definitely from Merlin - so have to regard it as my LBS 250 miles away

In my experience most of the small independent bike shops are s**t, and as stated above, normaly run by arrogant, unhelpful individuals who charge at least RRP for everything and a fortune for labour. But there are some which are absolutely superb and if you have one like that near you, then cherish it and use it. I don't unfortunately, and now do all my shopping on-line and have learnt to build and repair my own bikes 🙂

Threads like this stress me out big time. Have any of you (either pro or con) actually told your LBS your views, and reasons?

I've never had a *proper* complaint in my 2 years as manager, but that means no constructive critiscism (sp?) either.

If anyone reading this has been in my shop (Brooks, Newtown), I'd love to know what you thought...?

My LBS is great; polite good professional service. They don't expect me to buy them biscuits and they don't make me coffee and pretend to be my mate, and that's fine for me. I still buy a few bits online, when it suits or when I've had some booze.

However, my mate came up from Kings Langley this morning, picking his bike up from his LBS on the way. They had fitted a new headset, he didn't really check it before he left. Noticed the headset was loose when he unloaded the bike at ours, even the top cap was just rotating round and the bolt just unscrewed out with no effort in my fingers. The shop must have refitted his stem first, and they did the stem bolts up so tight on the stem that it twisted my brand new draper allan key trying to get them out. The fitting torque was even written on the stem. By the time we got the bolts out, only one of them was fit to use again. They had also greased the whole steerer tube??

As has been said, not all LBS's are equal.

Samways in Derby used to be my local bike shop and although I buy quite a bit online, mainly due to the fact I'm not around much when shops are open, I do like to try and support my local bike shop where possible. I tried numerous times with Samways, I really did but it was mainly the bullsh+t and apathetic and aloof nature of guys there that got me, y'know the too cool for school types that work in bike shops. Here are a couple of my experiences.

I went in there for fork oil and was looking for either 5wt or 10wt and I know they had it in there previously, all they had left was 20wt and the guy tried to tell me 'that's all we keep in mate, because that's the most popular and all that people use' As if!

Next I was looking for a new road bike and had about £2k effectively burning a hole in my pocket and really fancied a Colnago Master X-light - y'know the retro looking one. I knew that they were supplied by windwave and Samways clearly had an account with them as they stocked mainly Marzocchi forks as well as other products of theirs. So, I asked the guy could they get hold of this frame? 'Nah mate, we don't do Colnago' so I pointed out that they were available from Windwave 'No they're not' No really - they are, perhaps if you could check please. This went on for sometime, he insisted they weren't and was reluctant to check - finally turning to an out of date catalogue to prove they didn't. It wasn't until I went on the internet on my phone in front of him and pulled up the Windwave website did he finally agree to put together a price on a build which would take a week apparently.

So finally I went in the next week and got a price on the build I wanted. Master X lite frame, ulterga, ksyriums, brooks saddle etc. All of these were listed at full RRP straight out of the catalogue and he even included innertubes and cables at full RRP. I could have done that, the reason I wanted a price working out I explained was to see what they could do for me if I was buying a package. To charge £8 for innertubes on a £2.5k build was missing the point, not to mention taking the piss. Needless to say I didn't get my road bike there.

I used CRC and when some of the bits didn't fit like they were advertised, they sent me more expensive bits that did fit for the same price AND they sent me a £20 voucher as way of apology.

And people wonder why they are taking their business. Many LBS's act like victims and just don't help themselves out - its like they can't be arsed to earn their money at times and expect people to put up with crap service and pay through the nose.

All i mean is that Local shops cannot compete on price or even range but the ability to have it on the shelf when someone needs it is all they have, Unreasonable things excluded.

I love my Local Bike Shops.

Surosa/Oldham Cycle Centre; excellent shop, excellent staff.

MK Cycles in Bolton; absolutely the best LBS I've used in 25 years, it's a 30 mile round trip by bike, but I'd do it everyday if I had to.

Mike Cooksons in Whitefield; again, bloody excellent.

It's about not wanting the Moon on a Stick; ring them up, ask them if they have something, or ask them to get it, then go and buy. No bike shop can compete with the net, but can compete in terms of the experience they can offer, and that gets me going back time after time.

My first trip to MK Cycles was after a fall on some diesel; needed my bars straightening and a bit of TLC; after getting sorted for nothing, I went back and have been going back for years...

I just subscribe to the "you'll miss it when its gone" school of thought.

I don't think I will, I've not been in one for years - I can't see the point any more, on-line retailers supply pretty much everything I need quickly & cheaply

A lot of people saw the point today at my LBS and we did ok, nothing earth shattering but a good day.
But the majority of people who shop in LBss dont use the internet to buy bike stuff which is why online is still the minority of sales in the UK

I guess I should have said I don't see the point for my needs

As an on-line LBS we see both sides of the coin i think.

There is a clear difference in peoples expectations in each channel.

It's a case of trying to find a balance and build an appropriate relationship with each person as an individual whether it be in person or virtually.

We adopt an LBS approach to web sales - it seems to work for us. We don't list the same product that makes the big guys big as we simply cannot and do not want to compete.

For us it's about people and fun, not box shifting. There is a market for this approach I have found - it's what the business model is based on and was the niche I saw we could fill when I took over the running of the shop. You have to accept you cannot make everyone happy all the time and some people just don't want a relationship - we go after the people that do and we aim to make sure we give them as near as damn the price they (and we of course) are happy with.

We make some money, they get a good deal. It's a case of treading the balance every day/week/month to keep things focused. I have wages to pay and a margin to achieve to make the business work. Sadly RRP has to be charged on certain things as Madison and Fishers do not at the present accept biscuits from us as payment (nor do staff for that matter!).

It's sad to think people think a business charging a realistic RRP are ripping people off. These prices are suggested by distributors and suppliers to allow us to make a margin based on the amount they sell to us at. No-one seems to bargain at Tescos or McDonalds for a discount. Believe me, they make much much much bigger margins than bike shops and distributors etc.

Ach well, it's the weekend! Brain off. Beer ON!

joe@brookscycles - No experience of your shop... but...

What have you done to seek your customers views? Why should we have to overcome our British reticence to tell surly and unhelpful staff that they are surly and unhelpful? It's not like they are going to change. These days you have to actively seek your customers feedback. Not to do so is inconceivable in a modern service industry.

One less than brilliant LBS was asking customers to fill in forms giving feedback, so I did.

"Howl" by BRMC

Who are they ?
I know BMC made cars years ago

thebikechain.co.uk

Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

McDonalds is a largely franchised business - consisting of thousands of small businesses.

Not sure your comparison is fair or valid. But good luck.

The idea that there is such a thing as RRP these days is actually a little bogus.

Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

Thanks for the good luck wishes - i think you know what i was aiming at.

It may be a bogus that RRP's exist but they do and this is what businesses use in forecasting and budgeting. To introduce a non number or constantly shifting variable instead would be fallacy and impossible.

You just have to accept that as a forecast it is just that, a forecast. Based on things being 'normal'. That's just a simple accounting fact.