[Closed] And you still gets slagged off for buying online (LBS content).......

Don't blame you. Merlin used to be my local when they were in ormskirk

I'm happy to pay a bit of a premium - lbs tax - to be able to walk out of the shop with it there and then. Once it becomes we'll order it in then it's online for me

They didnt have the stuff as expected but if I popped along, opened an account, and gave them 25% as deposit

Whats that all about ?

Did you tell then you just wanted to buy some bike bits not to buy the lease for the shop ?

My LBS just told me to buy it online as they didn't hold stock, they even suggested a place. But they never seem to have anything I want in.

I like to buy from the local shop where i can, even if its a few quid more as i know the guy very well, but when i got quoted £450 including discount for an XT groupset WITHOUT brakes or discs its a no brainer really.

The only thing Local shops have is stock, the ability for the customer to walk out of the shop that day with it.
'we could order it for you'
mean I can get it and then you can come back and pay/collect it. whereas online they'll deliver it to your home.
If the local shop can't keep something in stock they don't get my business.

mikey-simmo - Member

The only thing Local shops have is stock

What planet are you on? How wrong can you get? LBS don't have the resources to stock everything

I dont subscribe to the whole SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BIKE SHOP.

There are two kinda close to me, and both have arrogant and rude owners.
This I could maybe over-look. But every job they do for you they charge and every item costs considerably more than on-line ... so why support the local bike shop?

Blacklug - Member
I dont subscribe to the whole SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BIKE SHOP.

There are two kinda close to me, and both have arrogant and rude owners.
This I could maybe over-look. But every job they do for you they charge

Whatever next? I take it you work for nothing? 😆

Bassspine - I think you're missing the point. There's various advantages of an LBS but probably the most important is being able to walk out with one of the cycling staples - tube, tyre, chain, cable, hose, cassette etc which the bloody well should stock. I'm not saying they should have one of everything but for those interchangeable bits go they should have something which makes your bike rideable and saves you missing a ride.

Lbs's mostly rely on low end bike stuff, it costs them far more to source quality components than your run of the mill millionaire shops wiggle/crc/evans/merlin etc.
It's similar to taking yer car to halfords/arnold shark/main dealerships to your local garage.
Some independent garages/Lbs's are great/average/poor, find one that suits you, or continue to support the mass buying outfits.

richcc - Member
I think you're missing the point.

FFS richc, you're missing the point, mikey simmo says all LBSs have is stock and thats plain wrong.
I work in a small bike shop. People come in expecting us to stock a 1998 rockshox spring in 210lb weight or a 2025 xtr electronic rear derailleur and get funny if we don't have one or if wiggle sell it for less than our trade price. Obviously we stock inner tubes and cassettes in the most commonly needed sizes, but people seem to expect blood.

We'd love to be able to go 'oh yes sir a four year old mavic freehub body, we have all the sizes' but we just can't keep everything in stock

steffybhoy - Member
Lbs's mostly rely on low end bike stuff, it costs them far more to source quality components than your run of the mill millionaire shops wiggle/crc/evans/merlin etc.
It's similar to taking yer car to halfords/arnold shark/main dealerships to your local garage.
Some independent garages/Lbs's are great/average/poor, find one that suits you, or continue to support the mass buying outfits.

except that main dealers or such for cars tend to charge an arm and a leg. unlike little local garage, who do things quite reasonable/cheap pricing/for biscuit contributions.

I just subscribe to the "you'll miss it when its gone" school of thought.

Case in point being CD shopping in Edinburgh. I loved flicking through the decent selection of CDs that FOPP/HMV/Avalanche held between them, but now we're down to one of each shop and their selection could best be described as 'the dregs'. How hard should it be to find "Howl" by BRMC f.f.s? Its supposedly the best album of a fairly big, recent band...

Buying music off the web just depresses me, and I would hate my bike shopping to be reduced to that.

That said, its difficult for CD shops to offer stinky customer service, which is the OP's point I guess.

What put me off most of the LBSs, is that the only things an LBS offer me that I can't get online is spannering and trying on kit. But half of them have no changing rooms, no mirrors, and poor workshops. I had to phone 4 shops before i found one that could face a brake mount FFS, 3 before I could find one who could chase out a BB shell's threads. All those shops are great at selling middle-of-the-road kit at very high prices though.

TBC, without being sycophantic, is a very good LBS. Good stock, good people, good prices. But most in my experience aren't. I've had better service over the years from Halfords than from independants in general.

my local bike shop is awesome, i break it they fix it.

i needed a 31.8 to 25.4 shim for a handlebar, they had one, gave me it free, bar a deposit in the charity box.

same happens when i need them to sort out my tubeless tyres or any of the the other really rather annoying tasks i put their way.

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

My LBS I have mixed feelings about. When I suggested I might look at buying a bike from him on C2W, he wasn't really interested, he's more into his roadie stuff than mtb. But when I'm looking for small parts like rotor bolts or front mech shims, he can't be more helpful. Odd.

But I'm going to keep supporting him because when I need that small something tomorrow afternoon, I can get it in less than half an hour.

The LBS nearest my work has decent stock but charges RRP on every single thing, and proper takes the piss on labour.

For example a guy I know got charged £250 for a 'Gold' service on his rockhopper which involved 'cleaning', fitting a couple of mud guards and replacing some aging bits of the drive train - with Altus!

I have no idea how they manage it but there are always people dropping bikes off and picking them up when I'm in there browsing and sucking air though my teeth.

Bike shops vary an awful lot. Although they all stock similar things they will all have their own specialities which they will probably keep more of. They all have different staff which obviously makes a difference.

The problem with independent shops is even when they do try and keep 1 of everything, it only takes 1 person to come in before you and buy it before its gone! And limited finances and space mean it is impossible to keep enough stock to satisfy everyone.

my local bike shop is awesome, i break it they fix it.

i needed a 31.8 to 25.4 shim for a handlebar, they had one, gave me it free, bar a deposit in the charity box.

same happens when i need them to sort out my tubeless tyres or any of the the other really rather annoying tasks i put their way.

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

I'm biased, I work there on a Sunday 😛
never ceases to amaze me how much work/ random spare bits we do for biscuits/ charity donations 😛

The beauty of the internet is that it means the people who think the lbs should kiss their ass when they drop in to buy a cheap part now have somewhere to shop. 🙂

I mix and match, depends what it is, how quickly I want it, what mood I'm in. Probably spend 50:50 LBS / online. My LBS is brill, owners really good, knows me by site now as do his staff (who are also excellent). It's taken a while to build up but I have a really good relationship with them (and I get an automatic 10% of for being a regular 😉 ). I definitely use them if I want some adivce or want to try things on (clothing etc., not asking the p*ss).

pitsford cycles of northampton, top chaps

Indeed, only charged me a tenner to order and fit new bearings in one of my hubs. Nice people as well 🙂 I'm yet to use them for much else though other than buying the odd spares if I don't want to wait for it off the internet.

My lbs are shocking so can kiss my butt 😀 i am buying my next bike from a nslbs ( not so local bike shop). As the guy who owns it sponsors my triathlete/ironman mate and is getting me a blimming good deal 😀

having read the posts it seems the best thing to do is use the lbs who looks after you...we look after loadsa people and it must work because a fair few come in weekly...

the only people im not interested in is some of the people above who dont appreciate service and everything comes down to price...theyre conversely not welcome.but you get good and bad customers! i think im going to start a free local bike shop experience and then maybe some customers would see what the issues are..

My LBS is all road stuff so completely pointless for me to go into. But he's a nice bloke and some of those bikes are really nice looking........

There are a few lbs round to choose from.

The nearest one is run by an obsessive roadie who sells mountain bikes but sneers at mtb'ers. He's a prize tool and so ignorant I will never return.

One lbs is superb but a bit further away. If I buy parts from him he fits them for nothing. Great service and when I've needed repairs at short notice he's always gone the extra mile to get it done.

Another is a large family lbs - again friendly service and where I tend to get bike clothing as there is a good choice and they are always very helpful.

The other lbs specialises mainly in mtb stuff but their attitude is all wrong. The guys who run it seem more interested in chatting with 'regular' customers or amongst themselves than actually helping anyone else.

I would be happy to pay significantly more in a shop for: good friendly efficient service, advice, good attitude, discount and reduced/no charges for fitting (stuff I had bought there).

Mostly now I buy online for: ease of shopping/delivery, choice, I don't have to put up with being patronised, I don't damage my bike when fixing it/fitting new parts and it costs less too!

I'm happy to pay a bit more in my LBS, but that's only because they always give me excellent service. I don't, and can't afford to, buy everything there, but i like dealing with them, so use them when I can. Keep up the good work 18bikes.

my LBS makes me coffee, they build my wheels,i have bought 4 bikes from them myself, they fit stuff i haven't got the tools to fit my self, this is why i have recommended 5 people to them to buy their first proper MTBs, i still buy stuff they don't stock (no one can stock everything) online though, i think that's fair?

Wish I lived near a good LBS. Locals ones are just silly - incompetent mistakes in one, long waits for service appointments in the other. The best service I have had is definitely from Merlin - so have to regard it as my LBS 250 miles away

In my experience most of the small independent bike shops are s**t, and as stated above, normaly run by arrogant, unhelpful individuals who charge at least RRP for everything and a fortune for labour. But there are some which are absolutely superb and if you have one like that near you, then cherish it and use it. I don't unfortunately, and now do all my shopping on-line and have learnt to build and repair my own bikes 🙂

Threads like this stress me out big time. Have any of you (either pro or con) actually told your LBS your views, and reasons?

I've never had a *proper* complaint in my 2 years as manager, but that means no constructive critiscism (sp?) either.

If anyone reading this has been in my shop (Brooks, Newtown), I'd love to know what you thought...?

My LBS is great; polite good professional service. They don't expect me to buy them biscuits and they don't make me coffee and pretend to be my mate, and that's fine for me. I still buy a few bits online, when it suits or when I've had some booze.

However, my mate came up from Kings Langley this morning, picking his bike up from his LBS on the way. They had fitted a new headset, he didn't really check it before he left. Noticed the headset was loose when he unloaded the bike at ours, even the top cap was just rotating round and the bolt just unscrewed out with no effort in my fingers. The shop must have refitted his stem first, and they did the stem bolts up so tight on the stem that it twisted my brand new draper allan key trying to get them out. The fitting torque was even written on the stem. By the time we got the bolts out, only one of them was fit to use again. They had also greased the whole steerer tube??

As has been said, not all LBS's are equal.

Samways in Derby used to be my local bike shop and although I buy quite a bit online, mainly due to the fact I'm not around much when shops are open, I do like to try and support my local bike shop where possible. I tried numerous times with Samways, I really did but it was mainly the bullsh+t and apathetic and aloof nature of guys there that got me, y'know the too cool for school types that work in bike shops. Here are a couple of my experiences.

I went in there for fork oil and was looking for either 5wt or 10wt and I know they had it in there previously, all they had left was 20wt and the guy tried to tell me 'that's all we keep in mate, because that's the most popular and all that people use' As if!

Next I was looking for a new road bike and had about £2k effectively burning a hole in my pocket and really fancied a Colnago Master X-light - y'know the retro looking one. I knew that they were supplied by windwave and Samways clearly had an account with them as they stocked mainly Marzocchi forks as well as other products of theirs. So, I asked the guy could they get hold of this frame? 'Nah mate, we don't do Colnago' so I pointed out that they were available from Windwave 'No they're not' No really - they are, perhaps if you could check please. This went on for sometime, he insisted they weren't and was reluctant to check - finally turning to an out of date catalogue to prove they didn't. It wasn't until I went on the internet on my phone in front of him and pulled up the Windwave website did he finally agree to put together a price on a build which would take a week apparently.

So finally I went in the next week and got a price on the build I wanted. Master X lite frame, ulterga, ksyriums, brooks saddle etc. All of these were listed at full RRP straight out of the catalogue and he even included innertubes and cables at full RRP. I could have done that, the reason I wanted a price working out I explained was to see what they could do for me if I was buying a package. To charge £8 for innertubes on a £2.5k build was missing the point, not to mention taking the piss. Needless to say I didn't get my road bike there.

I used CRC and when some of the bits didn't fit like they were advertised, they sent me more expensive bits that did fit for the same price AND they sent me a £20 voucher as way of apology.

And people wonder why they are taking their business. Many LBS's act like victims and just don't help themselves out - its like they can't be arsed to earn their money at times and expect people to put up with crap service and pay through the nose.

All i mean is that Local shops cannot compete on price or even range but the ability to have it on the shelf when someone needs it is all they have, Unreasonable things excluded.

I love my Local Bike Shops.

Surosa/Oldham Cycle Centre; excellent shop, excellent staff.

MK Cycles in Bolton; absolutely the best LBS I've used in 25 years, it's a 30 mile round trip by bike, but I'd do it everyday if I had to.

Mike Cooksons in Whitefield; again, bloody excellent.

It's about not wanting the Moon on a Stick; ring them up, ask them if they have something, or ask them to get it, then go and buy. No bike shop can compete with the net, but can compete in terms of the experience they can offer, and that gets me going back time after time.

My first trip to MK Cycles was after a fall on some diesel; needed my bars straightening and a bit of TLC; after getting sorted for nothing, I went back and have been going back for years...

I just subscribe to the "you'll miss it when its gone" school of thought.

I don't think I will, I've not been in one for years - I can't see the point any more, on-line retailers supply pretty much everything I need quickly & cheaply

A lot of people saw the point today at my LBS and we did ok, nothing earth shattering but a good day.
But the majority of people who shop in LBss dont use the internet to buy bike stuff which is why online is still the minority of sales in the UK

I guess I should have said I don't see the point for my needs

As an on-line LBS we see both sides of the coin i think.

There is a clear difference in peoples expectations in each channel.

It's a case of trying to find a balance and build an appropriate relationship with each person as an individual whether it be in person or virtually.

We adopt an LBS approach to web sales - it seems to work for us. We don't list the same product that makes the big guys big as we simply cannot and do not want to compete.

For us it's about people and fun, not box shifting. There is a market for this approach I have found - it's what the business model is based on and was the niche I saw we could fill when I took over the running of the shop. You have to accept you cannot make everyone happy all the time and some people just don't want a relationship - we go after the people that do and we aim to make sure we give them as near as damn the price they (and we of course) are happy with.

We make some money, they get a good deal. It's a case of treading the balance every day/week/month to keep things focused. I have wages to pay and a margin to achieve to make the business work. Sadly RRP has to be charged on certain things as Madison and Fishers do not at the present accept biscuits from us as payment (nor do staff for that matter!).

It's sad to think people think a business charging a realistic RRP are ripping people off. These prices are suggested by distributors and suppliers to allow us to make a margin based on the amount they sell to us at. No-one seems to bargain at Tescos or McDonalds for a discount. Believe me, they make much much much bigger margins than bike shops and distributors etc.

Ach well, it's the weekend! Brain off. Beer ON!

joe@brookscycles - No experience of your shop... but...

What have you done to seek your customers views? Why should we have to overcome our British reticence to tell surly and unhelpful staff that they are surly and unhelpful? It's not like they are going to change. These days you have to actively seek your customers feedback. Not to do so is inconceivable in a modern service industry.

One less than brilliant LBS was asking customers to fill in forms giving feedback, so I did.

"Howl" by BRMC

Who are they ?
I know BMC made cars years ago

thebikechain.co.uk

Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

McDonalds is a largely franchised business - consisting of thousands of small businesses.

Not sure your comparison is fair or valid. But good luck.

The idea that there is such a thing as RRP these days is actually a little bogus.

Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

Thanks for the good luck wishes - i think you know what i was aiming at.

It may be a bogus that RRP's exist but they do and this is what businesses use in forecasting and budgeting. To introduce a non number or constantly shifting variable instead would be fallacy and impossible.

You just have to accept that as a forecast it is just that, a forecast. Based on things being 'normal'. That's just a simple accounting fact.

Personally I only shop online for 'odds & sods', like... I dunno, grips, some cheapo pedals for the hack bike etc. My 'local bike shop' is 65 miles away but when I go there I spend a bit & get a good discount, I shake the owners hand & he asks me how I'm doing, the mechanic comes out of the back from the workshop, does the same & asks If I've any jokes! (cos I try & make them laugh, works wonders) One of the sales lads says 'Hi Jim, long time no see, hows it going?' Dunno but it might be cos I was shopping there before the interweb came along & I've recommended them to a lot of people who go back time & time again.
PLUS... It's like Santa's grotto to a mountain biker!

My LBS is Primera in Bournemouth
They helped spec my build - built it for nothing and gave 10% on all the parts (it was a top of range build) That was about 3 years ago but when I broke a saddle rail earlier this year and asked them to post a replacement on Monday so I could ride Tuesday evening the manager came round and fitted the saddle on monday evening to make sure I could ride - also got my local club discount on the purchase.
I will use them for everything I can because its a case of use it or lose it with LBS. They also have a great stock + changing rooms for trying on clothes and apart from having so many bikes and so much kit in stock that walking round the shop is a challenge they would be hard to beat. No biscuits or coffee but a Tuesday night ride ending in a pub led by 2 of their staff all year round.
I am no longer interested in saving a fiver on-line. They are superb.

I work in a small LBS where we tried selling MTBs only to discover they were being bought for 16 year old kids whose parents later demanded everything and a bit more to be done under warranty, that would include punctures, fixing hydraulic brakes treated with WD40 and broken wheels.
We left it and stock hybrids and road stuff. Now we get pretty girls in lycra, lads doing triathlon, families going touring. The bikes come clean and customers are smiling, what a change!
Not for a moment do I regret such a switch, many (most?) MTB-ers are a rude bunch who expect too much for far too little.

This has, as is often the way of STW, turned into a really interesting thread. Interesting to see the different viewpoints on what are reasonable and unreasonable expectations and whether and how shops try to meet them

Wow - a minor league rant has turned into a pretty good thread 🙂

Threads like this stress me out big time. Have any of you (either pro or con) actually told your LBS your views, and reasons?

Well thats the 64000 dollar question

I phone up the LBS and order the bits
Thats from the manager of the one who doesnt ask for a big deposit
I then make time from work to collect them the next day
This is a minor hassle but a hassle nevertheless

When I arrive they have c0cked up the order
As I said this is somehow my fault - wtf??

I then leave never to return

Do I really need to tell them they are rubbish?

Having b4llsed up my order and got funny when I denied it was my fault is there really any point in telling them how unhappy I am?

Cheers

I buy stuff online if I can because it's easier and I know what I'm looking for. I'd like to support my LBS more but I find that the advice I'm given on this forum is much more useful.

I remember (20 years ago before the internet reached me) when the LBS was a cool place to hang out and was filled with really amazing bikes, parts and kits I would save up for and buy. They would always do deals for cash and fit things for free and were not run by snotty little teenagers that want to patronise me. I would drop in just to chat, go for a group ride, get advice and often got freebees.

Nowadays I do all my own mechanics and buy everything online where it is in stock, cheaper and in my hands quicker.

LBS just seem rubbish these days.

I wonder if we are actually a bit of a niche market for the lbs and don't make up as much of their business as we think we do. I know that I am price and kit sensitive so tend to shop around and am aware of the online prices. However the bulk of my cycling friends aren't like that and just want a bike that works, price often not being an issue (well up to 1,500 maybe).

The result of that is that of the 3 lbs that I use I send all my friends to just one of them as I know they don't mess around and always work out the right bike for whoever I send there and servicing seems good to.

There seems plenty of market still out there for a good lbs, it's just that now there is somewhere else to go if it isn't so good

20 years ago

not run by snotty little teenagers

i see a potential correlation here...grumpy old man??

[i]I buy stuff online if I can because it's easier and I know what I'm looking for. I'd like to support my LBS more but I find that the advice I'm given on this forum is much more useful.[/i]
Possibly easier depending on how far away you are from the shop. As for 'advice' it's seems to me that this forum is more about opinions than advice.

Possibly easier depending on how far away you are from the shop. As for 'advice' it's seems to me that this forum is more about opinions than advice.

Yeah good point. There is one bike shop I go to that's full of experts, characters and helpful people but it's a bit of a drive away. The shop I got my bike from probably know less about the bike than I do and it's a struggle to get good advice. Forums can be useful for talking to folk who own the same bike and components.

One thng I have found is tht people seem to overstate the savings buying online.

My LBS is the above mentioned TBC - but I also use other shops.

When buying stuff that is not an emergancy buy I check prices online then go to TBC or one of the other shops to see what they can do. Usually they are pretty close and have wht i want in stock - I refer to stuff like drivetrain parts, brake pads, tubes, that sort of thing

For the advice and convinience I am prepared to pay the odd fiver extra

QUOTE: geofg - Member
My LBS is Primera in Bournemouth QUOTE.

Mine too!

Really good shop. They were great with my dad too, he bought his first ever serious bike at the age of 60 and they sorted him out with a Specialized Crosstrail which is just perfect for him.

I'll be going in there at some point next week to see if they can get the pedals off my brother's Hardrock.

Actually....strictly speaking, 'On Yer Bike' is my LBS, but as you'll be well aware they're perfectly good, but not in the same league as Primera.

Heres a new one. Why don't LBS's support us?

They are businesses and we are punters.

Those that have a good repoire with their bikeshop. If you stopped buying things from them (you know, things are tight) but still popped in. How long before the owner etc would describe you as annoying etc?

Well? Its your wallet the shop owner wants. Why do some people have a fairy-tale view of the world? 🙄

I wont name and shame but the amount of times I've popped into one particular shop just to buy bits and pieces and asked just one question- then spent 10minutes with them telling me all about a certain frame or bike with me saying 'err right thanks'.

I'm a bloke - I don't go into a shop and buy something by surprise. I know what I want and go hunting for it.

for me the problem is that pretty much most stuff in the bike shop is RRP which isn't the bike shops fault but i can take 10 minutes to look at stuff online in 10 different shops and see who is doing the best deals, guaranteed one of them will have a huge discount on what i want for last years model which is fine with me. I can't justify full RRP when you can save so much online.

rs why are you up so early?

its just coming up for 10pm here, why are you up so early?

Ah. Couldn't sleep. Saying that I started falling asleep at 8.30pm yesterday (old age I guess). Out on the bike in a hour though and back intime for the F1 start

ah, i figured it must be the new kid getting you up early, enjoy your ride.

Hes fast asleep! How ironic- its me who can't sleep and not him. 😯

I have had very mixed experiences of both online and LBS shopping. I have a particular hatred for some arrogant LBS owners, and those that rip of newbie riders by overcharging significantly for repairs/fitting.

Recently, however, I have found some absolutely top class service from Four LBS's in particular:
*Coombes Cycles in Hereford - fitted a Hope Bottom Bracket, including free facing of my BB, set the bike up perfectly and provided amusing stories of MM all for the retail price of the BB...and completed in a morning leaving me to collect the bike at lunch break.

*Swinnertons (Cannock Chase) - have a good supply of stock, and are always happy to help, even when really busy

*Red Kite in Brum - haven't always had what we want in stock, but are still happy to help, provide alternative suggestions and generally polite and helpful service.

*The Bike Chain, from where I recently ordered a large amount of kit for a new build. They sourced it all at a fair price, kept me constantly updated with info about the suppliers and got the stuff shipped out as soon as it arrived.

Top quality service from all four....just wanted to say so really - because good customer service doesn't get recognised anywhere near enough.

MY LBS is just over 100 miles away - they have cracking customer service, chat about bikes at any level of knowledge to anyone who comes in asking for advice, have enough stock to do the running repairs needed at the trailhead, AND possibly most interestingly, they don't presume two women wandering in there know nothing about bikes.

My main gripe about a lot of shops is that they can't talk to women normally as though we don't ride, don't mech, don't spend lots of money etc. That's the bit that irritates me and that I don't understand. Although, again interestingly, walking into a shop with a Mayhem buff seemed to get instant respect (after they'd asked if we'd ridden)

So whoever it was above who said LBS where the service is good and internet as a back up/extra.

I actually feel sorry for my LBS (and others in my area that I have used in the past). There seems to be a number of issues at the moment - one is the massive increase in trade (and therefore RRP) cost on parts - i.e I went into my LBS and it was going to cost £55 for an XT BB - I can get the part for around £25 if shopping online! It is impossible for most shops to have the cashflow hold the amount of stock needed to satify all types of customer, and despite mt best efforts at supporting my LBS I find it harder to do so when you have to pay full price and wait 2 weeks, when it is easy to get cheaper and next day.

Before all the web retailers, the business was different and shops could stock more as there was only one place people could go - it seems very catch 22, the more folk buy online, the less likely shops are able to make enough money to carry all the stock needed to compete for cost and choice, a vicious circle?

Also, cycling now has more disciplines and industry standards, therefor a lot of products needed to meet demands of each market - not that long ago you just had roadbikes and hardtail MTBs.

I think shops should play to their strengths, if they have a good workshop - focus on that and expand it, I know my local multiple chain shop has less choice and is a much poorer stocked shop that 2-3 years ago, but is still booked 3-4 weeks in advance for the workshop!!! I dont think you need to be a rocket scientist to see where demand is.

People forget that "LBS's" have a cash till as their focal point.

Lets not forget that.

i disagree...my focal point in the shop shifts depending on the customer...usually its the newest bike/wheel/pair of oakleys/kettle etc....

i wouldnt go in any shop where the till was the main focus...maybe you think that because youve not been in a good bike shop for years

I have a small family bike shop near me .It sells the usual hybrids and bmx bikes for kids .It does not stock much higher end stuff but without fail will always get anything I want within a few days and phone me to let me know.It's this reliability that keeps me going back ,other lbs's locally don't bother to order stuff quickly or moan about minimum orders

maybe you think that because youve not been in a good bike shop for years

Shop. Yes, its a shop. I wish folk would stop pretending that bike shops are something else. They are there to take money off you. Thats their primary purpose.

Not much in the way of a decent local lbs to me, The only one local to me is very small and pushes far to hard to sell you ANYTHING in the shop, Went in and asked to look at pedals to be told they dont stock pedals and then tried to sell me something completely different

However if i travel a few miles, Activ cycles in folkstone and The Hub Cycle Shop in Sandgate have been excellent, Charged about £10 more on CRC prices for Cassette, chain and cables and i could physically look at them and walk out the store with shiny bits !

Thats another thing- why do bike shops charge a fortune for inner and outer cable? ESPECIALLY outer. WTF. Just boggo-stuff.

hora - Member

"People forget that "LBS's" have a cash till as their focal point.
Lets not forget that."

TBH I think a lot of LBSs need to be reminded of that, that's the problem.

I'm still looking for a decent lbs. One shop where I used to live didnt want to help me source my mtb and seemed happy to just sell their affiliated brand with no bikes over 500 quid, maybe because they assumed I would have them do the legwork then by it elsewhere/online, I dont know. My current lbs is apparantly run by a very moody bugger and the next nearest couldnt fit a crank for 3-4 weeks so I bought the tools myself. Another bike shop near where I work tried selling the wife a bike that was clearly too big for her so thats another cossed off my list. I'm sure there are good shops out there but in terms of consistent customer service I cant fault my online providers. If I do ever come across a decent lbs I would be happy paying a slight premium compared to online prices.

I think this is a case where the public need to thank European trading/competition laws!

I work on the supply side of the bike industry, (no names, no pack drill!)

i) RRP is only a guide, retail price maintenance is illegal, however there are certainly "gentlemen's agreements" in place (between both supplier/retailer and retailer/retailer), but if a price shagger decides to pump it out at next to cost, there's really nothing that can be done.

ii) Grey import is a huge problem for suppliers, if someone in the UK buys from another source in Europe, theres nothing that can be done - plus there are people who make a living trading OEM stock from one source to another and then onto another that makes it difficult impossible to trace - if you've got cash to spend, you can get anything you want for a good price with a quick trip to the Benelux.

iii) The big guys often don't get much better prices than stocking in retailers, most brands really want to encourage IBD's to stock their product.

iv) There are two main types of IBD - those who invest in stock, and those who don't, as you'd expect the ones who invest, get a much better price, as they take a big risk - theres a fair number of the latter type of IBD who expect full margin for basically, ordering something in and opening the box. IMO its these guys who really lose out to the internet retailers. Do I think that some shops take the piss? Yep, some of them expect the moon on a stick, but most are happy with a reasonable margin.

v) There's three types of internet retailers: those who run a shop and then have a website on the side, its a good way to increase sales but clearly never going to be the dominant power and money spinner that the big boys are, the big boys, who really, really do run a slick operation, but to be fair they invest a lot (and I mean a lot) in stock, and theres the guy selling from his shed/bedroom, most of the big guys will no longer touch them.

Realistically, for a brand it really, really does pay to support the LBS stockists as much as possible, most sales are still through LBS, and the key customers here are the ones who stock in your brand - and if your brand gets shagged out then it becomes devalued, and people refuse to stock it, which is death for your overall sales figures. Theres more than enough cake for everyone to get a slice.

Unfortunately for both manufacturer and retailer, theres always some clever shite that will get some grey product and shag it out at no margin, they make very little out of it (turnover does not equal profit!) - but devalue the product, so shops stop stocking it, importers don't invest in stock, spare parts or support, the downward spiral begins and so who loses out in the long run? yep, you guys, you've got both the biggest benefit (savings) and ultimately the biggest loss at the same time...

its certainly an interesting trade!

Firstly Zulu-Eleven, thank you for the insight.

theres a fair number of the latter type of IBD who expect full margin for basically, ordering something in and opening the box

Yep I've been to a few of those AND I can name a couple really easily. Its the way they treat you. They want blood/your sworn allegiance and they would look at you oddly if they noticed you bought a frame etc elsewhere.

I'm guessing but one way to stop punters from guilty buying elsewhere is the weekly shop rides huh? Keep an eye on your customers.

Anyone else remember the Freewheel (later Madison Cycles) mail order catalogue with the hand drawn pictures of bike parts from c.1980? I was pushed towards the mail order route after being talked down to by an LBS and although I like the internet shopping route I'm sure it's been instramental in me buying a hell of a lot more stuff than I really ought to 😳

Common lines I learnt to spot
"Thats worn/finished, you will need a brand new one" (NUMEROUS times).
I think they clock you as 'all the gear' (not what you lot think - but 'money to spend' is how I'd define 'all the gear' to a bike shop.

"Labour to build a bike costs £100+the parts and sundries costs" (how long were they building it for?)
"Sorry we don't stock them as they are actually not very good"
😆