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I spot what looks very much like a Jones loop copy from alpkit, I thought that Jeff had a patent on welded grip sections on handlebars? Hence why the mary was bendy rather than welded, no?
Anyone got any more info?
Brant, Brant, Brant!
What I really want is a Jones bar that is slightly wider and slightly less sweep. Is this it?
Saw those and had a fiddle today at the warehouse. No details on cost, Spec etc though. Sadly not on my bike so I couldn't rest them on top to compare.
It'll be a bit of a shame if they are a near as damn it copy of the Jones bar. Pricing of jeff's stuff is a touch steep but he almost deserves that premium for creating his designs and having the balls to go through with them.
Saw these at the bike show and asked about them. If I recall, they will be about 35 quid and on sale in about 6 weeks.
How wide?
I know imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but that is cheeky as chuff. What next? an alpkit truss fork and swooping frame called the Spacious frame? very surprised, they didn't do what surly have done and acknowledge Jeff and sell their bike with a jones loop like on the surly ECR
shonky.....very bloody shonky
Jones vs Brant love-in, who is right? Only one way to find out...
FIGHT!
Didn't titec do something before? Fight? Jones looks fairly handy.
Titec j and h bars were made under licence to jones. It depends if you screw over the creative guys then all you are left with is imitators looking for another person to leech ideas from.
Titec bars were either licenced or how Jones got them into production initially. Either way, they were 'official'.
*edit* DAMMIT, 27 seconds too slow!
On another forum I saw someone post the following:
"I think the thing to remember is that with other brand names, you are paying a lot for extensive research and development. ***** Group don't spend any money on this (they just copy everything) so they can pass on the savings to the buyer."
What a sad state of affairs. If you play music you can probably work out who this refers to...
shonky.....very bloody shonky
perhaps we can give them the benefit of the doubt for now - maybe they're licenced as titec aren't making theirs anymore?
I hope so Stoner, I really do. I've always liked alpkit stuff and have lots of good products from them, but if they are basically and blatantly ripping off Jones then that would be last time I ever shop with them.
fingers crossed they have sorted something officially with Jones.
Why would Jones licence the design? 🙄
God yeah I never thought of it that way, that capitalist scum.Why would Jones licence the design?
I thought exactly the same thing. I really liked the Alpkit stand I've got some of their bags and I'd consider one of their bikes. I hope it's not just a copy without licensing.
Alpkit made (make?) some frame bags to fit Jones frames once upon a time (and used his logo IIRC) so maybe they have a working relationship of some kind?
The Jones loop bar is hardly a wild innovation. Do you get in a strop over dirt drop manufacturers etc?
Pretty sure it was Revelate that made the Jones luggage.
Aren't all those Alpkit/Wildcat bags just copies of Revelate and Porcelain Rocket stuff anyway? Is there something specific to Jones stuff that means it shouldn't be copied or have some folk just woken up to capitalism?
I'm sure I've seen something like this before
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ALPKIT.COM And this
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ALPKIT.COM the cooking pot is a chinese catalogue thing. the original IP looting done by them, not Alpkit.
But point taken.
Alpkit made (make?) some frame bags to fit Jones frames once upon a time (and used his logo IIRC) so maybe they have a working relationship of some kind?
A Jones/[s]Revelate[/s] Alpkit bag earlier.
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LOL.
With that beard he does look quite like Jesus right enough
That's a Porcelain Rocket bag.
This is the Revelate one
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😆
Its not a Jeff Jones concept to weld grips onto bars.
Cafe racers have done it for years.
That's a Porcelain Rocket bag.This is the Revelate one
Damn, I only went looking for a pic after johnny above said revelate and I'd thought it was PR, but the jones site had a ton of Revelate stuff so presumed he had switched. Indeed he had but somehow I managed to google the only pic of a PR bag... DOH!
Biff – UK/Euro Jones person here...
Bags... I previously asked Alpkit to make a batch of bags for Jeff Jones Diamond and Spaceframe frames. I provided the Jones badges for them to include in the production (and provided them with frames and H-Bars to work from). We talked about a bag for the Loop H-bars.
The bar is not something I (or Jeff) was aware of until seeing it here. I have emailed Col and Kenny at Alpkit about it. I wait to hear.
CDN.MEME.AM Is there a jones bar with rise .... I looked for ages .... The old titecs had rise but were narrow as chuff.
My Loops have a slight rise - as in they definitely curve in 3 dimensions.
Is there a jones bar with rise .... I looked for ages .... The old titecs had rise but were narrow as chuff.
My Loops [i]still[/i] have a slight rise - as in they definitely curve in 3 dimensions.
Jones loops are 13mm rise/drop i believe.
You asked Alpkit to make a close copy of some bags that are already being made by other companies?biff - Member
Biff – UK/Euro Jones person here...
Bags... I previously asked Alpkit to make a batch of bags for Jeff Jones Diamond and Spaceframe frames.
What precisely is the sort of IP on the Jones bars?
A patent?
A US filed patent?
Internationally recognised or not?
I bet you Alpkit are in the clear...
I thought stifling competition through the application of patents was a bad thing - or does that only apply to Specialized and Clif?
When was that ever a reason to cancel a STW lynching?cookeaa - MemberWhat precisely is the sort of IP on the Jones bars?
A patent?
A US filed patent?
Internationally recognised or not?I bet you Alpkit are in the clear...
[plot twist]
Looks like Jones doesn't even make the bars he patented anymore.
[I]..and parts of the side bars [b]forward of the center bar[/b] are used for mounting a brake lever, shift lever or a combined brake and shift levers..[/I]
[/plot twist]
[i]You asked Alpkit to make a close copy of some bags that are already being made by other companies? [/i]
No – Alpkit were making Alpkit framebags. I asked them to make some to fit Jones frames. I made no reference to other framebags.
I thought stifling competition through the application of patents was a bad thing
.. to be balanced with encouraging innovation by protecting valid ideas that can be developed into commercial proposals without being copied unduly. There's another debate about the US vs European patent systems in all that though.
Whether it's a patent or a registered design, there's an inventive element to the bars. They were established a long time ago as something quite different to the mainstream. In the framebag comparison it's more similar to the Wildcat Tiger imo, ie an original and new take on an existing product.
Alpkit have form for this type of behaviour, iirc they screwed outdoor pacific over a few years ago.
Jeffs H bar shook things up in the handlebar market when it was launched. I had been riding something kind of similar in 1986, copied from the guys at Swallow who made true "H" bars. But his angled bar was different.
It's funny too. As I didn't really understand it fully when I did the Mary bar, as when you grip the H bar you end up holding the extension and cross bar, rather than the 45deg bit. And it's best with tape. Anyhow.
Jeffs lawyer got quite serious with us when I was at on-one when we were experimenting with the welded extensioned H bar which we discounted (the design) when it was a super fiddle to set brakes and shifters up. Hence the forward backward wiggle which I put on Mary, and the Ragley Carnegie after it. I didn't hear anymore.
We didn't kick up a fuss when I was at Ragley when Trek did a Bontrager bar like the Carnegie. Even though someone from Trek called me to discuss licensing it. Licence what? It's a curvy bar.
For the Jones, I don't know about patents or licences on the bar.
An arrogant younger me would have argued that the Jones loop bar was nothing new and fair game. An older calmer me sees things differently.
I don't have full involvement with the bag and bar stuff that Alpkit are doing. At this point I just did frame design for them and some assistance with component selection of some items in the Love Mud range.
I didn't even see it on the AK stand as me and Neil were on the other stand in the bike area. That stand was 100yrds away in the outdoor section.
AK are good people. "On sale in 6 weeks" sounds like crossed wires. And thanks to Jeff for shaking up the bar market and making things more comfortable for longer distance stuff.
"Go nice places, do good things © 2016 Alpkit"
Well, somebody should sue Humpert first then....
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