Is Nino Schurter a common reference ? I only picked him as he's a household name in bike handling 🙂
Tbh although the reverb ref is tongue in cheek. As far as troublesome bike parts go - we have had much less dropper related mechanical issues since everyone in our group stopped using them... *My saddles dropping * *my saddle won't go up * *my seats posts ****ed again*
Seems like they overly complicated the issue.
Is Nino Schurter a common reference
Christ aye, every time a dropper thread comes up, the curmudgeons cite that fella, ditto 29ers, ditto wearing lycra.
I had reverb on a few bikes, no real issues with it other than the odd bleed. The main issues were folk that thought they were fit and forget. You wouldn't not maintain your brakes, suspension or gearing, dropper is in the same boat.
Edit - household name? Steady now! Come to think of it, I haven't ever knowingly seen the guy riding a bike, watching XC is up there with formula 1 and horse racing in the dullness games.
Cable actuated droppers are even less faff than a reverb...
To the people saying they ride with the saddle quite low anyway to enable a bit more flexibility, what you're actually saying is you ride with the saddle at a compromised height?! Too low for maximum pedalling efficiency on the uphill and easy stuff, and probably still a bit in the way on the descents.
With a dropper there is no compromise, you can have your saddle in the best position for each bit of trail without having to stop and without compromise.
I put off getting a dropper for a long time, seen them as expensive and pointless.
Now the bikes I have that don't have one feel like they are hampered.
On my Arkose first ride I was heading over Whinlatter Pass and decided to duck in and try the blue trail, shit that was scary at speed being that high up. Still no dropper on that bike but I can see why gravel bikes would benefit if you're linking up various trails with road.
Funny that folk would think their seatpost is fit and forget such as it has been for decades bar the yearly scrape and grease.
As for xc racing being dull.... It's certainly more engaging than a downhill time trials.
But tbh watching downhill is ruined for me. It just makes me want to buy a dh bike again.
It's all about making the riding experience better along with wider bars, wider rims , bigger tyres , shorter stems , slacker head angles etc etc . They are not essential but they just make the bike more capable . There are a lot of trails now that are being ridden today that were unrideable 15 years ago and that is mostly because of improvements to bike design .
There are a lot of trails now that are being ridden today that were unrideable 15 years ago and that is mostly because of improvements to bike design
Does that also mean that a lot of trails that were rideable 15 years ago are more dull because of improvements to bike design?
Possibly , or perhaps you can just ride those trails faster and have more fun on them . You could always get a 26" rigid with canti brakes and semi slick 1.9 tyres pumped up to 40psi if you wanted a bit less dullness or alternatively get a gravel bike .
Why? NOt something I have ever felt a need for and I don’t have one on any of my bikes
TJ, as such an expert in all things automotive you will surely be aware of the aim to keep centre of gravity low to improve handling. Droppers do that on MTBs.
I didn't buy one for years, never thought them important. But now I have two I have got used to being able to move around much more, so not being able to do so is limiting.
If you've never used one you won't see the benefit as you'll be used to not using them. But now I hate cornering with my weight miles up in the air to the point that I sometimes drop mine for a single sharp corner on a road.
MOlgrips - as above - the type of riding I do only needs the seat up or down once or twice a ride.
simplify and add lightness.
I have no issues with others using them. Its just not for me and the way I ride in the terrain I ride in
Yes to droppers.
Before having one I always thought it to be a gimmick. riding in the alps usually means 1-3 hour slog uphill, a break and something to eat at the top with plenty of time to lower your saddle.
However, dropper just works. Quick stop, drop.
Now having someone in the group without a dropper is tiresome if you're riding a tail with lots of ups and downs. Constant stopping to lower the post. Another stop to raise it. Stop again because it's not quite at the right height.... And so on.
I've even fitted an on X-Fusion post to my Bullitt....waiting at lights and getting off is easier. If I'm wearing flops rather than trainers or the GF wants to use it out can be ridden without faffing with the seat clamp.
All my bikes won't have dropper posts, ever.
Yes I have tried one.
Isn't freedom of choice great?
There are a lot of trails now that are being ridden today that were unrideable 15 years ago and that is mostly because of improvements to bike design .
There is one downhill that I look at these days and think no effing way.
I used to ride it in the 90s on a rigid bike with cantis.
Solid proof there that I was talking rubbish then .
Possibly , or perhaps you can just ride those trails faster and have more fun on them . You could always get a 26″ rigid with canti brakes and semi slick 1.9 tyres pumped up to 40psi if you wanted a bit less dullness or alternatively get a gravel bike .
Agreed (apart from cantis!) I have more fun on those bits of trail on a rigid 26 or the frankenbike. Can't really ride them at warp speed due to other trail users.
I can understand how useful they are to many especially if you like having the seat up on climbs.
I fitted one before heading off to do Beskidy mtb trophy. Being able to drop on unsighted descents is great, and being a XC stage race, you have to go up too.
I know guys who refuse to fit them, and did swiss epic like that, so each to their own.
I use a Specialized command post, and really like the ability to drop 50mm for pedally, but technical or twisty trails. It is one concern I have going to a infinite adjust seat post, mine has been completely reliable, and the stepped drop works for me.
I might consider one if they only drop 50mm
You make one of the rare good points on the thread Shread.
And it formed part of a chat I had with Geoff kabush during a zwift event.
"All you Europeans come over here to do the BC bike race and you keep bringing your European race bikes with your heads down and your arse up. Bring trail bikes you'll do better"
Match the bike to the terrain. Much as I might like to think I'm always riding gnarly new trails.....the bulk of my riding is done locally on trails I know well that are relatively tame just because the laws of geography and I dislike losing riding time to the car. So many people go nuclear and end up riding things like g160s* on towpaths when a lighter shorter travel bike would make a higher proportion of their riding more enjoyable.
*When I was 14 I often did my paper round on my DH bike but then I grew up and realised how idiotic it was
Terry, the change in bike geometry since your dh days means that even with a 180mm dropper on my Bronson, it's at knee height when dropped and I'm stood up, same as dh bikes were.
Another 2 advantages are dropping an inch for pedalling through techy flat sections maintaining speed, and the ability to set your saddle height perfectly at your extended height, no ****ing about looking for marks on the seatpost and lining up the saddle.
XC racing is still dull, I'm not giving you that one! 🤣
I might consider one if they only drop 50mm
Most of them are infinitely adjustable, you can drop them as much or as little as you want. If you want, you can clamp something around the inner shaft to limit the travel (a reflector mounting bracket, for example).
Another thing to consider is steeper seat tubes. Lots of folk still riding bikes with seat tube angles at 74/75 degs, and the saddle position isn't necessarily that big a deal when you start descending. Seat tubes have got steeper recently 77degs isn't that uncommon, the saddle's pretty much where you need to be for good decending, so a dropper post makes much more sense.
simplify and add lightness.
[toungue in cheek] says the man who extols the virtues of gearboxes... [/tongue in cheek]
🙂
TJ mentioned a trail at GT that's been closed for years. That shows how often he does any kind of mtbing. As usual Northwind nailed it early on. I rode at Drumlanrig last winter and can't imagine riding there without a dropper, well I can but it wouldn't be as much fun or it'd be a lot more tiring. Lots of last minute saddle drops then pop it back up for the next pedally section.
Christ aye, drumlanrig is droppertastic, I reckon doing the full black I'd be onto treble figures on number of times I use it.
I tried one a few years back but kept forgetting it was there so rarely used it. I've still got it so might dig it out and try it again.
With a dropper you find more places to drop the post even on the same ride. For example, on my most local loop there is a long descent that's not technical. But I drop the post at the top because there are steep hairpins, then I keep it low to duck some branches but there a short climb where I pop it back up. After that it's down again for the next bit then in the middle for the last pedally section. There's no way I would do that if I had to stop or get off each time. Of course I would ride it with my seat up all the time (and I have done hundreds of times) but it's just much more fun with the dropper. Even though it's not what you'd call technical, and you don't NEED it dropped at all because you can still ride it quickly without. I don't have one on my rigid bike and I still ride the same descent.
I'M feeling all nostalgic . It's just like the old days of arguing about bar widths.
It's as if the last 4 years never happened.
I think it does depend on terrain, but also how/when you learnt to ride
I’m not sure that’s completely true. First started messing around the woods and hills in 1987. Lots of my local riding has always been rolling - not long, technical, steep descents or endless climbs - although I have always loved them. I think I got my first dropper in 2011/2012. So around 25 years of non-dropper riding.
I love dropping the post - to chuck the bike about a bit, playing about, cruising over underrating rough ground and obviously descents and less obviously dropped a bit for technical climbs.
I think it’s more about how you like to ride and how much/easily you have modified your riding style.
oi grandads it's not laps of a muddy field anymore - https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-checks-5-xc-race-weapons-from-the-2019-nove-mesto-world-cup.html - last years XC racing. 4 out of 5 in this article have droppers (that BMC one is well hidden).
In the real (non professional racing) world, some people like them, some don't. Some can really make a bike dance beneath them even with the saddle all the way up, others will have the seat dropped at every opportunity, just to go round one corner.
There are many reasons not to have one: cost, simplicity, fear of it breaking, weight weenieism, compatabilty with seatpost based luggage, comfort for long distance rides, terrain as TJ describes where the ride is just one big up and down.
And really one massive reason to have one: basically better performance and enjoyment over any off road terrain.
What I really do not get though, is people who have them, and don't use them. Saving them for the one steep chute on the route, while they ride like a bag of wooden sticks with their dropper in the up position
If all bikes had droppers and 1x gearing I think more people would ride them - I don’t mean MTBs, I mean practical urban bikes for commuting etc.
Bikes are easier to get on and off with dropper posts, easier to pedal uphill because less confident riders can have their seat at full height and easier to ride downhill because it’s less scary than having a full height seat. And you can swap between different height riders more easily.
And 1x gearing is so much less confusing. Proper cyclists will disagree with all of this.
good urban bikes use hub gears. Look at what is sold in the rest of europe and a utility bike does not have the high BB of an MTB so no issues with getting on and off or going downhill
And 1x gearing is so much less confusing. Proper cyclists will disagree with all of this.
I'd hope I'm a proper cyclist, but I'm 1x for life now. (Practical and affordable internal gears notwithstanding).
If I ever did go back to road riding for fitness - there's no point where I live now - 1x would be a must have for me.
1 button for faster, one for slower. Why people think needlessly complicating matters makes them a better or more pure cyclist is beyond me.
Yay another dropper thread!
So a few points, as ayjaydoubleyou points out comaptibility is not universal, some folk would probably be shocked to know folk still ride bikes with 27.2mm or even 26.8mm seat tubes!
Convenience for getting in the car. Jump on bike, hit switch, post goes down. Open QR, drop post. Nah I'm not buying that, it's marginal at best.
Maintenance. Big one here.
That's what you need when the damn things get seized, think he makes a post featuring that beast every other week. Yes, fit, forget, repent at leisure. Normal posts get seized too I hear you say, perhaps but if you're moving them regularly then ususally not.
Don't get me wrong, I see the appeal depending on the terrain but TBH I would see more benefit having an unshimmed post than a dropper for quick adjustments.
TJ, as such an expert in all things automotive you will surely be aware of the aim to keep centre of gravity low to improve handling. Droppers do that on MTBs.
Really? Maybe you should have studied naval architecture.
What's the weight of a standard post and QR VS a dropper? How high above the bike's centre of mass is the post?
Droppers raise the centre of mass. Basic physics.
What’s the weight of a standard post and QR VS a dropper? How high above the bike’s centre of mass is the post?
Droppers raise the centre of mass. Basic physics.
The rider is the heaviest part of the system, by a massive amount. The CoM will probably be somewhere around the rider's stomach. A dropper post lets you lower the rider by 4 to 6 inches, so the CoM will be much lower.
Also, you can move around much more easily. I used a 4" travel GravityDropper for years, then switched to a 6" travel Brand-X. I put the GD on my spare bike, but hate it because I'm constantly smashing my nuts into the back of the saddle, having gotten used to the 6" post now.
Haven't really used a dropper for a few years since the reverb dumped it's oil for the xxth time. When I was riding golfie etc it's either seat up or seat down and now I live in a flat place it's just seat up so not missed having one much. Definitely good on group rides with lots of up and down though.
In the real (non professional racing) world, some people like them, some don’t. Some can really make a bike dance beneath them even with the saddle all the way up, others will have the seat dropped at every opportunity, just to go round one corner.
I was pretty quick in XC races on the flats and downs (just slow as hell on the climbs) back in the 00s when I used to do it. I'm sure I'm quicker now with bigger wheels, wider bars, better geo, better suspension, better tyres and a dropper - but then, so is everyone else probably 🙂
But it is much more fun. DHers always have their seats down, and this is for a reason. So clearly having your seat down is good for descents. And there are many short descents on my rides so being able to put it up and down instantly is a big convenience.
Bejeebus, can't some people just accept that if they don't feel the need for something, it doesn't make it wrong, and there doesn't actually need to be an argument about it? However...
Normal posts get seized too I hear you say, perhaps but if you’re moving them regularly then ususally not.
So an argument for not using a dropper is that if you don't have one, you manually adjust your seat with the QR so much, that there's no chance of it being left for a long time and seizing?
Excellent. Definitely unneeded tech then.
And there are many short descents on my rides so being able to put it up and down instantly is a big convenience.
This to me is a key thing. I can think of one ride I did where I wanted one. But as most of my riding I would only adjust it once or twice a a 3 hr ride I see no point
#droppersnotjustfordescents
#standingnotjustfordescents
“a utility bike does not have the high BB of an MTB so no issues with getting on and off or going downhill”
If you think MTBs have high bottom brackets I think you need to ride some modern ones. And you need to meet some beginner or less confident cyclists to understand my point.
I do understand your point. I don't think you understand euro utility bikes. Ask a dutch utility rider if they need a dropper! YOu can get both feet on the floor easily while still having the right BB to seat distance.
I do understand your point. I don’t think you understand euro utility bikes. Ask a dutch utility rider if they need a dropper! YOu can get both feet on the floor easily while still having the right BB to seat distance.
So, pointing out bikes that you rarely actually see in this country, after citing a trail at GT that hasn't existed for years, bravo sir!. 🙂
You should never have sold that Hite Rite TJ 🙂 🙂
“I do understand your point. I don’t think you understand euro utility bikes.”
My mother-in-law used to have one. It was absolutely hopeless in Brighton because unlike Holland we have lots of hills. Nice along the flat seafront though...
The fact XC racers don’t use them means nothing
It means that they have a smaller gut than the average STWer, so they have no trouble getting their weight back.
P.s. I have a hite rite...
A dropper post lets you lower the rider by 4 to 6 inches, so the CoM will be much lower.
Uh huh, and could you explain to the class how a normal seat post prevents the rider doing this?
That's my point.
So an argument for not using a dropper is that if you don’t have one, you manually adjust your seat with the QR so much, that there’s no chance of it being left for a long time and seizing?
Excellent. Definitely unneeded tech then.
First things first, I was simply pointing out that they present maintenance challenges of their own. Usually from the sort of folk that fit stuff and ignore it until they have to deal with it.
And I never said they were unneeded, I was simply pointing out that they come with a cost and frankly watching that extractor at work on a carbon frame (they like binding to carbon) gives me the fear.
@fasthaggis take the piss all you like but that hite rite has something going for it.
Uh huh, and could you explain to the class how a normal seat post prevents the rider doing this?
Well, dropper posts generally have a lever on the handlebars that you can press and adjust the saddle height as you're riding. This means that you can constantly adjust your saddle on rolling terrain. With a normal QR, you need to stop to adjust the saddle. That's ok if you ride up a road and take a steep trail down because you only need to adjust the saddle once during the ride. It sucks if you ride anywhere with changeable terrain - it's nice to lower the saddle an inch or so for rooty sections, etc, drop it six inches for steep bits, then have it at full height for climbs. On some trails, you get a constant mix of this so you're adjusting the saddle pretty much constantly.
In one of those annoying bits of irony, I'm an average ish height bloke with relatively short legs and long body.
I tend to size up for reach (not too gnarly here in the South Downs) so end up with less than fashionable amounts of seatpost and the FS has a curvy seat tube with a bolt through it.
100mm would be the max I'd think I can get in.
Silly question but can you run a dropper at 80% height or less indefinitely?
garage-dweller, you can pretty much spec the likes of the oneup to whatever length you like out of the box.
100mm would be the max I’d think I can get in.
Silly question but can you run a dropper at 80% height or less indefinitely?
There are some quite short dropper options so you may find one that works. Also with a dropper I find sometimes on long climbs I set the seat higher than I would normally be happy to ride, sort of like a roadie position, so you might end using more. If you do need to hobble a post it is easy to limit the drop with a collar but harder to limit the extension. You could use a bit of string which would be perfectly functional but quite shonky looking.
MTB yes, gravel bike no. I like having a place to rest my gut when I'm hanging off the back....
Silly question but can you run a dropper at 80% height or less indefinitely?
Yeah but it'd be annoying if it always pops up to a 'too high' position. I sometimes run mine 1-2cm lower than the maximum extension when I'm climbing off road on something techy, though. That's easy enough to adjust on the fly. But as people have suggested, there are loads of options for shorter travel posts too.
I was sold on dropper posts when I realised that I could drop the post a bit to do a mid-climb wheelie or practice manuals on long flat road sections where stopping would be annoying. But then I started using them and wonder how I managed without. YMMV of course.
MTB yes, gravel bike no. I like having a place to rest my gut when I’m hanging off the back….
Not just me then?
I have a Spesh Command Post which I think is 120mm drop. It's also mechanically activated so seems pretty reliable and easy to repair. No fluids to bleed or leak. And it's lighter than many.
But as most of my riding I would only adjust it once or twice a a 3 hr ride I see no point
It's still easier, but then I have other reasons to have one. I have made some seatposts noticeably narrower in the past by raising them and lowering them manually in muddy conditions.
Could you not put a shim inside to limit the extension? Seems like an easy 3D print job.
Just had a horrific flashback to the old solution for short seat tubes which seemed to solely consist of the Titec Scoper. Droppers definitely have their plus points.
Thanks for the helpful, non combative comments - eyeing up a little dropper related treat for myself to help keep the economy going. Its probably going to be 100mm or 120mm if I can find one - got about 150mm to play with from seat rail to top of seat tube (stupid tall seat tower) 😁
Please feel free to go back to telling people why they're wrong, I have a whiskey on the go and this thread is good entertainment in places. 🤪
Never ridden a bike with a dropper, but this thread has me intrigued. Whats the difference between this and just standing up a little bit ?
Whats the difference between this and just standing up a little bit ?
Find a steep, rough descent and drop your saddle 6" and ride down it as fast as you can. Then raise your saddle back to normal and try riding down it at the same speed. Then find a long road climb and ride up it with your saddle at optimal height. Then try riding up it with your saddle dropped 6".
What you'll find is that being able to have your saddle at different heights is a big advantage on rolling terrain (i.e. where you have short steep climbs followed by rough, steep descents). Yes, I've seen pro XC racers ride down some crazy stuff with their saddles up high, but most of us aren't that good.
Whats the difference between this and just standing up a little bit ?
Standing up raises your centre of gravity. If you want to turn corners, your CoG has to move to the left or right - the lower down it is, the less far it has to move, so the quicker you can change direction, just like how a metronome moves faster when the weight is lower down.
Also, if you are going down something steep then your weight has to be behind a vertical line through the front wheel, otherwise you'll go OTB. Moving your weight back does this, but with the saddle out of the way you can move it much closer towards the rear wheel which, when you are pointing downwards, means your weight is further still from the front wheel.
It might not be immediately obvious when you first do it, but it allows you to move your body around far more in loads of ways, and once you learn how to take advantage of this you can do a lot more, quicker and better, and for most of us this means more fun.
wow i never realised having a dropper and actually using one as its
designed was such a niche market :0)
must admit i had one 4 years ago and never used it, had a few coaching sessions that have massively improved my riding, now i dont think i could ride without one now, even considering one for my gravel bike, when i decide to push its boundaries on routes i ride my mtb, having a lower cog would much aid my comfort, and fear of an otb.
I think it also depends upon the bike. Some bikes just don't feel at all right with the saddle in a fixed position. My Yeti feels fine with a rigid post, decent to pedal on the flat, and not too much of a hindrance in twisty and descendy stuff. My Stache on the other hand, if I place the saddle in a comfortable pedaling position for flat stuff over a distance, it's really in the way in the twisty stuff, if i swap it around so that it's just slightly out of the way for descendy/twisty stuff, it hurts my knees when pedalling for a long period.
I feel no need or desire to have one on a road or gravel bike. That's just dead weight for 99% of the ride.
A game changer bit of kit which i'd put into the same 'game changer' MTB developments as disc brakes, SPDs and suspension forks
Yes, happy to ride without any of them, but Christ they made a difference
Daffy
I think it also depends upon the bike. Some bikes just don’t feel at all right with the saddle in a fixed position.
Steeper seat angles have a big part to play there - it's dropper posts that have enabled modern MTBs to have those angles, if you try to ride a bike with a 79 degree SA with the seat up it's just not comfortable, the saddle is right where you don't want it.
About time I chimed in again having started this... I really didn't think there were many people who weren't aware (or accepting) of the benefits of a dropper post on a mountain bike, I assumed it was pretty universal, like disc brakes and suspension forks.
Anyway, I've just built up a new bike - an On One Scandal, complete with a fixed Thomson post. This you may think goes against my whole argument, but it was a budget build and I thought I'd use the Scandal basically for what I've ended up using my gravel bike for (I didn't expect to have both). With cost, weight, and the style of riding I had in mind, I thought I'd try it without a dropper first.
So on Sunday I did that, a quick 7 mile loop about 50% road, a gravel track climb, a bit of open hill, a hill descent, then some gravel track descending and a few bits of urban singletrack. I want a dropper. I didn't die, or really feel like I was going to, but a fixed post just limits your body positioning so much, I think once you've got one on one bike, you need a dropper on all, for off road riding with any modicum of tech anyway. Bargain 30.9mm available anywhere?
I feel no need or desire to have one on a road or gravel bike. That’s just dead weight for 99% of the ride.
I'd like one on a road bike for long descents. I'd make it much easier to get low and aero. I tried that top-tube sitting thing that the pros do and I nearly had the mother of all spectacular wipeouts at 40mph. My bike's too small and my arse is too big.
I'd liek one on my gravel bike for one tiny section near home where I need to descend a steep offroad slope to link together two paths. I can descend it with saddle full height OK, but I'm right behind the saddle when doing so, and when I reach the bottom of the slope at speed and level out the prospect of saddle-induced genital injury is always there.
And frankly, when there's even a slight risk of genital injury involved, then the OP's post title seems entirely sensible, even for just that 1% of my ride.
I really didn’t think there were many people who weren’t aware (or accepting) of the benefits of a dropper post on a mountain bike, I assumed it was pretty universal, like disc brakes and suspension forks.
Again, don't confuse this place with an accurate demographic of MTBers, I don't ride with anyone who doesn't have a dropper post on their MTB.
I want a dropper. I didn’t die, or really feel like I was going to, but a fixed post just limits your body positioning so much
That was basically my position. After years of only riding off-road (with a dropper) I got a gravel bike last Autumn. I didn't initially have a dropper as everyone said it wasn't necessary. Although I did deliberately spec a bike that gave me the option. First few trips off-road on it and the saddle was just annoying. Didn't crash, or feel like I was going to, but the saddle just got in the way of where I naturally wanted to put my body. I dare say I could learn to work around it, but why when fitting a dropper is so simple?
OK, it adds a bit of weight, but if I cared about dropping weight I wouldn't start with the bike. I guess it is one more thing to go wrong, but I've never had a dropper fail on me yet and given all the other bits that can fail it's hardly a big increase in complexity. The worst that can happen is that I have to ride home with the saddle in a sub-optimal position.