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Edit: short version is, alcohol is a poison and there is no safe limit of consumption,
I've been thinking on this the last couple of weeks because it annoyed me. The scientific basis will be that there is no amount of alcohol that is safe for the entire population. But as with everything, YMMV; and one has to look rather more holistically.
If you have chronic stress and one glass of red wine every couple of days helps you relax, unwind and get to sleep, the net benefit to you personally may not be overall negative, taking into account the long-term effects of stress, sleep deprivation etc on diet, the immune system, mental wellbeing. But it's not possible to recommend one glass of red wine to every adult because their situations - tolerance, complicating factors etc - are all unique.
So yeah, only drink in moderation, but if it helps you manage other factors, don't beat yourself up about it. If nothing else, there is no safe limit of beating yourself up about it.
I think a more interesting question (to me, anyway - the reason I clicked into this thread) is alcohol's effect on your sporting performance. Obviously, get battered to the point that you're hanging out your arse, your sporting performance will probably suffer.
But I know from my own self that a couple of beers the night before leads to slightly better running speed the next day - whether it's the carbs, the fact that everything hurts anyway so I just push on through, or simply the self-flagellation of wanting to burn off the beer. So what's the impact there: presumably it's only for short distances, probably a personal effect, and so on?
But I know from my own self that a couple of beers the night before leads to slightly better running speed the next day
I did a duathlon a while back, it was just a training day for an Ironman I was doing later in the year. Anyway, had a slug of single malt before i went to bed. Finished 8th 🙂
Most things in modern life have a negative effect on us in some way, if you enjoy a few beers dont beat yourself up about it and enjoy it. Everything in moderation.
I did a duathlon a while back, it was just a training day for an Ironman I was doing later in the year. Anyway, had a slug of single malt before i went to bed. Finished 8th 🙂
Winners are grinners.
Drunken charge: Rolt and Hamilton's incredible '53 Le Mans win
The health benefits of alcohol have always been based on the fact that it contains an ingredient that MIGHT be beneficial to your health, that’s where the myth about red wine being good for you came from. The problem is that all these drinks contain alcohol which is NOT good for you in any way because it’s basically a poison. And the problem with all dietary studies is researchers can’t isolate the one thing they’re testing because as humans we eat a lot of things to survive.
There have been a lot of robust studies on alcohol and it’s effect on the quality of your sleep and they’ve pretty much all come back with the conclusion that even one drink is detrimental to your sleep.
It’s fine to have a drink now and again if thats’s what you want. if you enjoy it enjoy.
Personally I quit before my kids were born because 1) I went out on the piss too much and it was ruining sports the following day and cost too much and 2) I hate hangovers. Then I had kids and didn’t have the time or energy to drink.
Yeah I've got a kid now as well. You can't be having a lie in and moping around all day when you've got a hyper 3 year old jumping all over you. I also don't want to waste my days off.
I didn't even think of the expense. It's hard to buy a pint for less than a fiver round here. The price of drinks definitely went up with the creation of contactless payment. Too easy to get pissed and beep away all night.
Wow, I thought I was drinking too much last year but based on this thread I'm a lightweight! Only have the odd pint every few weeks/month now.
Weirdly, a couple whiskies helps me sleep (?), but anymore than that I have a terrible night and sometimes throughs sleep out for a few days. Might just be my perception. Don't use a Garmin, but would be interested to see the data.
Drink for me is directly linked to my stress levels. The more stressed, the more I drink. I can see how people enter a vicious cycle and spiral.
If you have chronic stress and one glass of red wine every couple of days helps you relax, unwind and get to sleep,
Or find something else to help you 'unwind' that isn't damaging your health?
I rarely drink now mostly because of the effect it has on my sleep. I've also noticed this weekend that I slept badly on Saturday after having a fairly spicy curry and then again last night after eating the leftovers.
I think a more interesting question (to me, anyway – the reason I clicked into this thread) is alcohol’s effect on your sporting performance. Obviously, get battered to the point that you’re hanging out your arse, your sporting performance will probably suffer.
I often wonder this. Historically I've been equally enthusiastic in partying as I have been in exercising- though I'm 44 now so drink a lot less, but still go out a fair bit. Previously it would be fairly common for me to perhaps do some V02 max intervals on a turbo trainer and then if may mates were in the pub I'd go and spend the night in the pub. Whereas now I'd just choose one or the other.
So my question is, I wonder to what *extent* alcohol effects performance- we all know that zero alcohol is better from a purely physiological perspective but in the example above I don't believe the night in the pub totally negates the benefits of an intense session on the turbo trainer. But I do wonder (if it were quantifiable) how much less effective that session is due to the beers.
I can usually finish in the top 20-25% of a trail or fell race and many of them were done with a mild hangover- I honestly don't think I'd ever have finished a single place higher if I'd have stayed sober the previous night, in any of them. I even kind of think the same would apply if I had a pretty serious hangover (i.e. I really think I'd have placed exactly the same in the race) but I've never tried it to that extent.
I came to the conclusion that any news story or report on why alcohol is good for you is on a par with those "More Dr's smoke Camels Cigarettes" posters from the last century. Or cigarettes have the health benefit of making you thin, or coke suppresses your appetite, etc. It might be true, but it's a long way from being a net positive.
“The j shaped curve shows that light and moderate drinkers of any form of alcohol live longer than those who abstain or drink heavily.”
I'm sure the explanation behind that is that the "abstain" group includes people who have previous addiction issues.
So the person who has never touched a drop of alcohol or done any drugs in their life falls into the same category as a recovering opioid addict with life shortening blood borne illnesses.
Like it or not, society relies on drinking for a lot of its socialising.
Having just spent the weekend mostly pissed at SSUK it's kind of hypocritical of me to say this but; I disagree
It's a learned behavior in so much as you have a correlation between starting the evening with a pint in hand and having a good time.
And it's not actually sociable. Like most drugs that depress the nervous system it just slows down your cognitive ability. Push that far enough and a lot of things seem more fun. Anyone who's been designated driver knows that their mates aren't more interesting after a pint or 3, they're idiots. It's just that if you've also had 3 pints then you can't see that anymore. Same with drugs and art or philosophy. You don't gain some great insight into Marx or Elon Musk after half a spliff, you just lose the cognitive ability to think against them.
If you have chronic stress and one glass of red wine every couple of days helps you relax, unwind and get to sleep, the net benefit to you personally may not be overall negative, taking into account the long-term effects of stress, sleep deprivation etc on diet, the immune system, mental wellbeing. But it’s not possible to recommend one glass of red wine to every adult because their situations – tolerance, complicating factors etc – are all unique.
I disagree again, the alcohol isn't removing the stress from your body, it's just masking it out temporarily. Masking the effect of one chemical in your body with another.
You'll get worse sleep.
And you'll wake up the next day and get just as stressed again.
The article also seems to be suggesting there is a conspiracy by the temperance movement to stop the consumption of alcohol!
I’ve often suspected that myself.
Ha! Fair point, that is their mission! I think what I found a bit surprising was the idea that the modern day Temperance Movement was some sort of powerful, shadowy lobby group pulling the strings of government health policy. I always saw it as a fusty Victorian hangover (no pun intended) religious movement that my grandparents were involved in.
In the late 90s I read that some of the high profile continental footballers drank a small amount of alcohol with a meal before a match. There was a theory that it was good for their performance, and as long as it wasn't more than a glass of wine / half a beer then it was ok.
So, I took a can of beer along to my next Uni match to drink in the changing room. We had a coach from the British Sports Council at the time and he was suitably unimpressed. As it turned out as a team we played unusually badly that day and I think it was the only time I ever saw him lose his rag with us. I wasn't too bad, but I was definitely singled out for being on the piss before a game.
I didn't try it again after that.
Quite a contrast to going on tour to Newcastle with my Rugby team a few years later where the hangovers were so bad we intentionally downed vomit-inducing sherry at half time in order to clear the system - second half was definitely easier.
…and if you hated hangovers before kids…
No kids and very rarely suffer from hangovers. Maybe there's a correlation.
Two days ago I had quite a lot to drink, even by my standards, but according to the breathalyser my sister got me for Christmas a couple of years ago I was at 0.2% the next morning. That was after 3 Weißbier, three glasses of Lagrein (very nice and only 3,70€ a glass, got to love Italy) and then the best part of another bottle when I got home.
Yesterday I had two shandies ( fizzy grapefruit rather than lemonade, much nicer!) and a glass of wine.
Tonight I had a three dark beers at 8.1%, two strong beers at 7.something% and two Summer IPAs from Lidl (not sure if you have them in the UK, but they're really moreish tasty).
Can't remember the last time I had a proper headache out hangover. I don't seem to suffer. Feel quite sprightly most mornings.
Three years back whilst still in Germany a normal workday would be half a bottle/ 250ml of water whilst riding to work. Tea or coffee with a joint at 8:30. 11 o'clock first beer (lager Helles) and another doobie. Lunch at 12 accompanied by two Weißbier (doctors orders). After lunch, share a joint with an espresso. At least another 3-4 beers until 6pm and at least the same number of smokes, if not more. At the time I was working on the van after work till 10 or 11pm and would have another 2-3 beers and the same amount, if not more, of smokes. Might have a glass of red alongside a sticky when I got home.
Had kidney stones around for years ago. My drinking was pretty much the same, but without the Weißbier. Doctor said I should drink at least 1 Weißbier a day for the mineral content.
I'm not fat. Now 42 (?), 172cm, ~72kg (not been on a scale in the last year or so, so it might be more). Physically fit. In the bike I mostly out perform mates that are teetotal fitness nuts. I know I could lose another 4kg and feel much better and drinking less would definitely help, but then I was at that weight two years ago despite my much higher consumption.
It's a "meh" from me.
I came to the conclusion that any news story or report on why alcohol is good for you is on a par with those “More Dr’s smoke Camels Cigarettes” posters from the last century. Or cigarettes have the health benefit of making you thin, or coke suppresses your appetite, etc. It might be true, but it’s a long way from being a net positive.
Was there not something about red wine being good for you because it eliminated free radicals?
And it’s not actually sociable. Like most drugs that depress the nervous system it just slows down your cognitive ability. Push that far enough and a lot of things seem more fun. Anyone who’s been designated driver knows that their mates aren’t more interesting after a pint or 3, they’re idiots. It’s just that if you’ve also had 3 pints then you can’t see that anymore.
You've just contradicted yourself here though. I reckon most folk know what alcohol is doing to them in that situation and are perfectly happy with it. For lots of us it removes sociability barriers that we otherwise suffer from.
So my question is, I wonder to what *extent* alcohol effects performance- we all know that zero alcohol is better from a purely physiological perspective but in the example above I don’t believe the night in the pub totally negates the benefits of an intense session on the turbo trainer.
Marginal gains. For the vast majority, a minor drop-off in performance doesn't matter. We're not racing, we're just out enjoying ourselves. And, if we do race, then abstinence for a period before hand isn't an issue.
I rarely drink now mostly because of the effect it has on my sleep. I’ve also noticed this weekend that I slept badly on Saturday after having a fairly spicy curry and then again last night after eating the leftovers.
I'd imagine there are quite a few things out there that affect your sleep but don't get as much attention as alcohol.
I did a duathlon a while back, it was just a training day for an Ironman I was doing later in the year. Anyway, had a slug of single malt before i went to bed. Finished 8th 🙂
It’s we’ll document that some elite athletes have a small red wine the night before a big event to calm thier nerves / fall asleep quicker.
Re recovery - although the most damage is done in the first two hours approx. of recovery, alchohol inhibits human growth hormone and is prioritised - on the basis of a removal of a poison from the body - over carb and protein absorption and sysnthesis. Therefore the aforementioned turbo session above will be less effective than it could have been. If you’re serious about training for performance, abstain so as not to waste / compromise your efforts.
The puritans will stay puritanical I suppose.
Honestly, as someone above mentioned, a good curry usually wrecks my sleep. And sugar in large quantities leaves me more hungover than a couple of beers.
Re recovery – although the most damage is done in the first two hours approx. of recovery, alchohol inhibits human growth hormone and is prioritised – on the basis of a removal of a poison from the body – over carb and protein absorption and sysnthesis. Therefore the aforementioned turbo session above will be less effective than it could have been. If you’re serious about training for performance, abstain so as not to waste / compromise your efforts.
This is a really interesting point though. Sure you may feel like you're working faster/ more intensely, and you may even be faster/ more intense, but your recovery could be hampered by alcohol
I seem to remember reading an ultra rider had a few expressos and a beer mid race ...!
A lighter version of a Red Bull and vodka i suppose!.
Maybe its a boost and bit of a relax vibe in a quick stop.
"expressos"
Is that an espresso drunk really quickly?
Doing the 75 hard challenge at the moment.Not drinking seems less of a problem to me than not eating chocolate!It seems very addictive.Any advice about going Cadbury's Cold Turkey would be appreciated.
addictive.Any advice about going Cadbury’s Cold Turkey would be appreciated.
Nothing other than if you're going to eat choclit eat decent choclit. Cadbury is crap.
For anyone that is at all interested in this topic should listen/read 'This Naked Mind'.
It was recommended by the guy that does Stone King Rally at the end of his recent Downtime podcast, I gave it a listen as have/had lately been thinking about my own alcohol use.
In short it has a lot of down to earth info about everything in the GCN video.
I used to drink about 3 to 5 pints of strong cider a week, not a lot compared to some, but an amount that had slowly increased over the years, and I knew in the back of my mind that it had become a habit instead of something that I actively enjoyed.
After listening to the audiobook I actually don't want a drink any more. It's not even a case of 'Oh I really crave a pint but the book says...' I actually don't want to put poison in my body, it takes a lot and gives next to nothing.
It's hard to talk about this topic without upsetting people.
I havent drank for 10 weeks as of tomorrow, so it's still recent, but I've lost weight, my blood pressure has gone down and I no longer get cramp at the end of a long ride anymore.
I actually don’t want to put poison in my body, it takes a lot and gives next to nothing.
It’s hard to talk about this topic without upsetting people.
I think you missed a 'for me' there which is what upsets people.
For you it gives nothing but for others it gives a great deal.
What "great deal" is it giving? Genuinely interested as I know what I thought it was giving me but after cutting it out I realised I was wrong.
Was there not something about red wine being good for you because it eliminated free radicals?
But failed to take into account, wealth, health, lifestyle etc etc, when you isolate all those other healthy indicators, red wine intake has no addition health benefits.
What “great deal” is it giving?
Pleasure. I enjoy the taste of a nice glass of red wine of an evening with my diner. I'm not bothered with the alcohol element of it at all. I don't need it to de-stress or wind down, I just like the taste. Last time I went to Morrisons I was surprised to see they had a selection of zero alcohol wines. Will try a bottle next time.
What “great deal” is it giving? Genuinely interested as I know what I thought it was giving me but after cutting it out I realised I was wrong.
It alters my mental state in a variety of ways that I find pleasing, depending on the situation. Either in terms of allowing me and the people I'm with to soicialise more easily and thus bond better in ways that carry over into our non-drinking time together. Or in terms of allowing me to enjoy the heightened emotional reaction to books, music, films etc which means that I go to bed happy rather than frustrated.
And sometimes I just really like the way I feel when I'm sitting drinking a whisky.
It’s hard to talk about this topic without upsetting people.
It is. I think it's the proselytising that some (not all) people do - "I don't do this and you mustn't either" gets folks riled up, particularly with something that's probably an established part of people's lifestyles from which they feel a benefit
It's not upsetting me. I married into a family of alcoholics, two of whom have since died as a result of it and the third has severe illness caused by alcohol. Nothing I read about alcohol is a surprise or an upset, but that doesn't preclude me from enjoying its effects myself occasionally. Just don't expect everyone to have the same response as you.
What Brucewee and Scotroutes said. I could voluntarily go out for an enjoyable walk later which has various benefits knowing there’s a risk of me being run over to death, but I won’t let that stop me.
Everything we do comes with risk and reward, how you balance or moralise what you do is mostly within your control, but sometimes not. Opinions are like aresholes…. Etc
It’s hard to talk about this topic without upsetting people.
Also, there's something about people coming out with variations of, 'I gave up alcohol six weeks ago. There is no reason for anyone to drink!'
I think the general reaction to that is not so much getting upset and more just, 'Hmm...'
I definitely get something out of having a laugh with my mates in the pub over a few pints- clearly not a physical benefit but a social or wellbeing sort of benefit or whatever you want to call it. I meet the same guys (or variations thereof) for other social events that don't include alcohol, like cycling or walking or whatever and they're great too, but we'd still look to meet up for some beers once in a while.
I'd estimate I drink slightly too much but not loads. My general diet is average but not perfect so if I was minded to, I could probably make equally positive (but different) changes to my health by eating less puddings or cheese or steaks or whatever as cutting out a few of pints a week.
One thing worth noting is that Gen Z are generally lauded for drinking less than previous generations. However, they also seem to be the most isolated and lonely.
Obviously we shouldn't confuse correlation with causation but you have to wonder if their loneliness and isolation has something to do with the fact their social groups are less likely to get together and have a drink (or if they are less likely to get together and have a drink because they are isolated).
Could be these two things have no connection, of course.
I think what people need to realise is that everyone has a different relationship with alcohol. Luckily for me I am happy to not bother or have a few glasses of wine a week and maybe a couple of pints on a Friday. Other mates have been raging alcoholics and now don't drink, I am happy to hang out with them and not drink. My brother was an alcoholic drank far too much far too often and died because of it. When I stop to think it's odd that I haven't stopped completely, but I like the odd pint now and again and enjoyable but of red wine, don't think it does too much hard to me ..what's the point of this waffle , well I am lucky and we all should be accepting of what other choose to do as long as it isn't doing serious harm or is an addiction.
And many Gen Zers may be getting the same/similar fix elsewhere.
good food for thought for Sober October....
I'm in, I often do it and feel a slight overall benefit, mainly in regard to good sleep.