[Closed] Ae Gravity Enduro - After the rain...

Few snaps here, sure Ian will have more online soon.
http://www.descent-world.co.uk/2011/05/09/661-gravity-enduro-rd1-ae-forest/

Not found any yet but just saw this.............

Pete - like the write up. Gives a great insight into what I missed. You got some good times too mate.

Roll on Kielder

Superb. See you at Kielder.

I've calculated from the results that I only need to go 31% faster to win!!!!

😮

Good write up MadPierre. I saved you from being slowest seeded Vet by crashing and sliding out far to often. Still had a great couple of days riding. Next time I must try racing instead. That and get some practice at riding in mud. Maybe the areas of Swinley that the firemen have been hosing down for days will be a good training spot.

You did a fine job as pit crew for the puncture repair. Must have been the practice at switching your tyre the previous day. I left you to it after pointing out that it was flat in the first place.

[url= http://www.rootsandrain.co.uk/race465/2011-may-7-uk-gravity-enduro-1-ae-forest/ ]RootsandRain Link[/url] Results with rider tagged pics, got to [url= http://www.rootsandrain.co.uk/race465/2011-may-7-uk-gravity-enduro-1-ae-forest/photos/ ]HERE[/url] and follow the photo tagging instructions - if everyone does a few it all gets done.

Thanks to Seb for adding the event

We've got an 'extended mix' crash vid coming shortly as well as a proper riding edit and report with plenty of pictures.

Although I didn't race, I rode the Stage 5/Seeding track and can see why it wasn't to some people's taste but I think that was due to the wet conditions more than anything. It'd have been lovely and buff a few days earlier 😉

Good to hear everyone's experience of the timing being bang on. There were a couple of issues that I heard about - the weird timing confusion on the linking stage being one - but I'm confident they'll be sorted for the next round.

I hope so anyway 'cos I'm definitely going to race Kielder, it was horrible sitting out and watching people ride even though the weather was grim 😀

I was a victim of the Stage 5 time shift. I nipped down to the carpark for a cup of tea as i didn't fancy standing around in the rain on top of the hill for a hour. when i got back up there I had missed my slot and was told by the marshall to go. I quickly put my lid on and set off (with the saddle up and in the wrong gear- good job I have gravity dropper post) had an okayish run but not the 16 mins+ stated on the results sheet. I think the format works but the communication need improving a bit. A lot of people didn't really know where and when they should be. Hopefully this should all be sorted for next time. The stages were good however I was on the edge of my comfort zone with the very wet DH stage. Looks like I need to get on some uplift days and get some training done.

I was one of the Masters that rode Shredder to finish.... Headed up to Scotland for Red Grade enduro xc. First dabble - ever - with downhill was recce, second was seeding. Certainly not what I was expecting from the web blurb. Reluctant to enter any more after the curve ball that was Section 5

I was only timed for 3 of the 4 sections I rode. Confused about seeding as I was lower down than folks who rode less sections than me - more slowly too. Some great folks made up for initial disapointment.

Organisation was a little lacking. Think most probs should iron out by next event.

SRAM were amazing. Thanks Ian - Legend.

How do these events work.

are they all run on one day or are they over 2 days?

and is it right the Inners one is on a Friday?

the course is a loop (of sorts), you're timed on the downhill/fun bits - these bits are called 'special-stages'.

you're given start times for each special-stage, you have to be at the start of each special-stage for the time you're given, this is when the clock starts ticking. If you miss your start time - tough, the clock still starts.

(don't miss your start times)

days 1: practise and qualifying.

day 2: race day.

apparently innerleithen starts on the Friday yes.

ah so the date on the website is the Practice/Qual day?

I think some of the timing confusion was due to the organisers trying to get people off the hill asap and avoid too much standing round in the weather. The initial gap between stage 4&5 was incorrect, then the amended one was too long. They tried to shorten it on the day and adapt the timing accordingly and I'm guessing that's where the errors crept in. Should be sorted for Kielder.

Vortexracing - yep, the date on the Website is the first (practice/seeding) day with the main event the day after.

I think people entering should check vids/pics as its quite obvious that its no xc race. And the name says it. Also organisers should clearly state that there will be high tech levels i.e dh style but without big jumps and drops.

I have to say i would be very annoyed if i travelled a great dinstance for under 20 mins racing. The UK need to look at Europe. Check the latest elass enduro tour. 26 mins for top rider and no faff with seeding. This is on same size hills too.

Enduro riding is xc and dh. Sub 4 min runs is dh. In my opinion. If you want top names to come you have offer more in a day and make it challenging physically and technically. In my opinion.

Don't let the fact that the runs are short fool you. It was challenging physically and technically.

Personally I thought it was a good mix and a good test of all round (AM) bike handling. The seeding/stage 5 course added to the mix nicely. It was only really tricky cuz of the weather and as we are not American we should be able to ride in the wet! 😉

I did the race last year and I race across Europe in Enduro (All mountain Series, Enduro Series and SuperEnduro). I am all behind this series but it needs to be longer. Its not a Mini DH, its an enduro.

It is whatever the organisers want it to be and was very enjoyable.

It was long enough for me

Mad Pierre - Member
Don't let the fact that the runs are short fool you. It was challenging physically and technically.

Ae being local and me not being one to enter races of any kind I thought I would have a gander at the DH track and check out what it looked like now with the view to maybe a last minute entry. Last time I was up/down the DH trail was in the very early days of Dhing, on my old hardtail. Some of what the riders ^^^ above have termed "new/cheeky" sections were actually parts of the original DH trail which was "easily" ridable on a ht in them days 🙂
Anyway after "riding" down the DH course I had a bit of a rethink and decided that walking half of it would be a waste of time, money, effort and become a nuisance to other riders 🙄

Fair enough Mr Plow but its good to attract other riders to do series/race which make it grow in the long run. Uk could have a great series where people from all over Europe would want to come and compete in. But not for 17 mins of racing. I am purely interested in this kind of event growing as it is EXCELLENT.

An example of the kind of Enduro in France (and there are loads and loads of local ones happening). Similar height in terrain.

The guy has a Special finishing (and race finishing collision)

http://www.zapiks.com/dabo-sp5-et-fin-elsass-blueg.html

...I have to say i would be very annoyed if i travelled a great dinstance for under 20 mins racing...

it's about 3 times more than you'll get out of a typical Dh race weekend.

although, i think a really good idea is lurking around here:

5 stages, 3 of them redish in nature and lasting 4 or 5 mins. 1 stage much more technical, let's describe it 'blackish', and 1 stage much longer - say 10mins - so that the fitter xc/roadie types can hand out some pain.

for example - stage 4 from Ae, but extended so that it finished at the bridge right at the bottom. Still 'down a hill' - but with a jolly unpleasant climb inbetween the awsome swoopy fast bits.

Actually this is a better overall one:

http://www.zapiks.com/le-film-dabo-elsass-bluegras.html

I couldn't careless about what a DH race does and doesn't do. As far as I am concerned its not my sport (love watching it though)

ahwiles: THAT is the concept of Enduro. What the French define as Enduro is trails/effort that an XC rider doesn't have more advantage over a DH rider and vice versa e.g. they balance out so that the overall winner is the best rounded rider (Fitness and Skills)

Maybe it will be called the Gravity Sprint Series next year just for you :mrgreen:.

It's not just 17mins of racing though. It was a class weekend, hell I only raced for 10mins before I ruined my tire. We spent Friday going round the course and playing on the DH. Sat playing on the Shredder and Rabs and then the seeding and racing. With camping and a good crowd it was all very good and can not be summed up as only "17 mins of racing"... I sum it up as 10mins of racing lol. :wink::lol:

It can always develop into longer stages if the majority and organisers wish but this series is clearly in it's infancy and many people are already enjoying it which is nice.

Hey. I am not putting it down. I had a fantastic time last year even after snaping my frame 😉 Just ways to improve in my opinion and I am 'Fan' but also a relative objective fan from doing other (multiple series) types.

Wouldn't it be cool for an Italian/French/Spanish/American/Canadian to be saying to other riding buddies etc 'Hey, I have heard the 661 Gravity Enduro Series is something to do. The trails are great, timing good, etc, etc. Lets go do a stage'

I know that I didn't come over to do any of them as it was too short to make it worth while (based in Switzerland). Honest truth.

Nah, they would only be amazed by the British weather lol

and Midges?

fairlyfoxy - Member

Certainly not what I was expecting from the web blurb.

This is it... I'd a fair idea of what the series is about after the (unconnected) Innerleithen Enduro earlier in the year but if you read the website, it sounds like it's just red routes.

I'm kind of the other way round though, I don't want a race that's just on red routes 😉 But especially early on getting any information on the level of riding's not been easy. It's like they're afraid of putting people off. But, that Innerleithen event made a lot of use of the downhill trails and got a load of people who'd never normally do DH out onto them and having a blast, which was a huge result- so many people just think "I'm not a downhiller" but DH trails are a blast on a little bike even for a mortal.

It's a big step forward I think and I'm really looking forward to the legs I can do but I think they've been pretty poor with communication. And they're getting told that over and over, the facebook and SDH page is full of it but there's not been much reaction.

but DH trails are a blast on a little bike even for a mortal.

I'd rather see trails that were rideable for lower tech levels slower with faster tech lines than trails that some won't do. You need a broad range for this kind of thing to work.

There are 8-10 DH races a month if you want to race DH!!

mikewsmith - Member

There are 8-10 DH races a month if you want to race DH!!

And there's any number of XC races if you want to race XC. But this isn't the same as either, there's a big difference between enduro-mincing down ae or innerleithen on a 5 inch bike, and racing DH. Or there is for most folks, for Crawfy and the like it's not so obvious!

some others really didn't want them (my gf for instance) especially in the mud.

Do you think that the 661 Gravity Enduro series might be a victim of people riding 'easy' and 'safe' trail centres? Enduro is always going to have Hard riding. If you don't like reasonably hard riding (at times) then maybe this format isn't for you. It is RACING with a gravity based side after all.

I think people should be able to put their hand up and say 'I am not good enough for this' or 'I am not comfortable with this level of tech/speed/terrain' rather than say 'its too hard'.

A quote (think I posted it earlier) from the UKGravityEnduro Site

What is enduro racing?

Enduro racing is a cross country based event and is normally run on an existing red route cross country loop. The event is run like a stage rally event where each rider has to complete a set amount of stages, most of the timed stages will be downhill but some will have uphill sections. Each event will consist of five competitive stages where you will be set off as an individual with a gap between each rider. At the end of each stage you will ride on a non-timed section to get to the next stage, this will involve riding uphill. The times for the link sections will be very generous so you dont have to ride quick on these sections, you will have time to take it easy. The rider with the quickest overall time for the 5 timed stages will win their category. Each stage will be electronically timed with manual backup. The final stage will have live timing with a results screen in the pit area, this means there will be no waiting around to find out your results.

My main point goes back to the first sentence

Enduro racing is a cross country based event and is normally run on an existing red route cross country loop.

If this had said
"Enduro racing is a [s]cross country[/s][b]trail & Downhill[/b] based event and is normally run on an existing red [b]& Black[/b] route cross country loop [b]and existing DH Courses[/b]."

Then I would know what I was getting into, not so much a case of urgh it's too hard for me must be wrong more not as advertised. I'd be p*ssed off if I paid for a DH race and found it was being run in Glentress Spooky Wood or an XC race to find it running down the DH at Ft Bill.

The advertising was didn't match the event.

Enduro is always going to have Hard riding. If you don't like reasonably hard riding (at times) then maybe this format isn't for you. It is RACING with a gravity based side after all.

The previous Avalanche Events have used the existing trails, most who went said it was really good, one of the bit positives was it was open to all, the better you were the faster your time.

Edit (cock up with HTML code)
Quote from Nigel Page on Seeding Run

The format was that everyone did a run on the National downhill track on Saturday afternoon for a seeding time

You missed a bit out mate.

The trails used in these events will be largley trail centre quality trails, however we will include more challenging and off piste/natural sections where possible to make it enjoyable and challenging for all riders.

They also posted on facebook the stages that where going to be used and it clearly stated the downhill track, if the downhill was not in the race then it would have lacked any tech sections. Also the weather didn't help if the heatwave had continued the downhill track would have been fine.

The way I look at is gravity enduro should have a bit of everything.

...I think people should be able to put their hand up and say 'I am not good enough for this' or 'I am not comfortable with this level of tech/speed/terrain' rather than say 'its too hard'.

RHS, you're forgetting, this is STW, no one here would could ever admit to that 😉

BTW I think this format is brilliant and is really what mountain biking is all about.

enjoyable and challenging for all riders

There is a bit of a leap between Red and DH track especially in the wet, I would agree with a bit of everything but maybe some foul weather plans etc.

The future will say how the event went down so far there has only been another 10 or so entries for Kielder.

Will see how that one goes

mikewsmith - I think you're perhaps exagerating your point a bit here. Yes the "DH" track was used but it was a DH track with the worst of the obstacles avoided. The step down, the large jumps, the larger rock gardens were all bypassed. Yes there were a couple of steep sections and some roots and a lot of mud, the latter made an awful lot worse by the pretty shocking weather conditions. All the remaining drops/jumps had detours available around them and all bar the bottom section was rollable at slow speed for anyone not confident to ride it fast (the bottom section was slideable on your arse through the mud if necessary 😉 )

As others have said, it was made clear that these races would not be just a race round a trail centre route with no imagination - I've avoided the Avalanche Ae rounds in the past as I it just seemed a bit dull. The name itelf surely suggests the series is going to have a
bit more, erm, gravity based action

As you stated earlier, you finished 90th overall so clearly weren't struggling too much with things.

Obviously it's horses for courses with this type of racing and, being new in the UK, time will tell as to what people make of it. I left the weekend happy that 95% of the people that raced, finished with a huge smile on their faces. Yes, some were covered in mud; yes some took a long time to get down. Hell, I trashed my bike, abandoned the race and was still laughing at the end.....just!
The important thing is there was a great atmosphere and I for one, can't wait for Kielder.

Thinking about it - the comments about the course being unrideable in the wet and mud, with people abandoning the race, reminds me of Mountain Mayhem 2 years ago. The weather turned the DH sections into swampy quagmires with lots of people giving up. I don't think that could ever be classed as too extreme - the weather plays an important and unavoidable part.

Indeed the DH race at Bringewood was run on the same weekend. They had to change the course used half way through the weekend as the original choice was unrideable. And they're DH'ers 😉

Stu661 - Member

They also posted on facebook the stages that where going to be used

Plenty of people had signed up before that point though, those only went up at the end of March, and even then only on Facebook not on their actual website. At the start it was like getting blood from a stone trying to get any indication of the route, I was literally saying "If it's just on the red I'm not going, tell me it's not" and getting no real response. You shouldn't have to dig.

Just playing devil's advocate here btw, it's my idea of a good event, but I do think their communication's been less good than it needs to be.

FBK

I was round the corner from you in the car park, well done for the finish on the borrowed bike.

Not to hit it too hard but an event like this needs wide support, I did OK, would have done better without the DH!!

I was mainly disappointed/annoyed by the way it was laid out on the web then after an update on facebook suddenly included the DH etc.

I'll go with the horses for courses argument, just know a few who wont be back if it chucks a few stages like 5 in again which is a shame as they really enjoyed 1-4. I fully accept that there needs to be more challenge for some - I'll take mine that there was 30-40s to find on S1-S4, not too bothered about S5 as my aim was not to hurt myself.

Most DH races would have run Chicken Runs round the hard obstacles anyway, gives you a time penalty but can still compete.

Would have liked to see some marshals up there as I have raced DH tracks like that (Pearce Rd 1 was similar!) which would have been mandatory Full Face and 10 marshals on the course.

All in all event was good for me but not for the people I came with who had hoped it was the middle ground that they would enjoy. Neither would have entered had they known what was coming, details were a bit late in coming out as to the track choice. Will see how Kielder goes.

Don't want to spend my days arguing my point but there are always 2 sides in these things those aspiring to move up and those who are looking to do well. Events when they start need to cover both and establish themselves before excluding people. This sort of event is still fairly new over here (2 Kona F Ups and 2/3 Avalanche Events?) maybe we need to let lots in and see where it goes rather than deciding where it needs to be from the start. I'd rather see 250 riders from all fields (XC all the way to DH) entered than 150.

Entries for Kielder 110 so far so need a few more to come would be a shame to turn people away because they are not good enough(there were more masters than that at Ae!!)

I've never ridden a DH course or a trail centre Black route. Without the rain I do not believe that Stage 5 would have been any harder than the previous 4 stages.

It's a shame it rained so much but its a personal choice as to whether you let that ruin the race for you. If you didn't like the Stage 5 in those conditions then walking all or some of it was still an option. I know I would rather walk it and complete the race than skip it and not. Actually, thats pretty close to what I did.

Mike - I think you've got me confused with someone else - I didn't borrow a bike.

Most DH races would have run Chicken Runs round the hard obstacles anyway, gives you a time penalty but can still compete.

There were multiple line choices on the DH section and any drops were easily bypassed (the biggest of these was still a lot smaller than those on stage 1 (shredder). The only difficult sections in my eyes, involved roots which, had the weather not been so bad, wouldn't have been any issue at all.

All in all event was good for me but not for the people I came with who had hoped it was the middle ground that they would enjoy

Funnily enough, the 3 guys I was riding with all said that stages 1 and 5 where the definite highlights of the day and the majority of smiles I saw were at the bottom of these.

None of us are of a level that will challenge podiums but we all ride a lot in varying terrain and have fun doing it. This series is just an extension of that idea and that's the appeal. IMHO it would be a shame if a series like this turned into a "race" round trail centre routes that can be ridden with a stop watch any time. The mix of different styles makes it what it is and challenges every skill.

I guess this argument could go on for ever, as will similar arguments re every genre of MTB racing/events - too long/short, to easy/not challenging enough, too pedally/not pedally enough. Time will tell if these guys have got it right. I think Ae was a good event with a few teething problems that round 2 should hopefully rectify.

can someone please explain how it will be raced at Afan? im guessing they are riding the Wall