[Closed] Adapting to euro/us style brakes

You'll die

That's my greatest fear

What would happen if you ran the levers flipped and upside down?

No way I would ride with US style brakes on anything more technical than a fireroad!

Anywhere nearby that rents bikes?
Personally it's a massive no for me, even if you could get used to it 1 day isn't going to get you there

Currently in Colorado, doing some riding. It takes about 10 minutes max to adapt. Just avoid blatting down a cliff in the first 10 mins and you'll be fine.

There's two places nearby I've tried who said they won't switch them over, and a third getting back to me. To be honest I think I knew the answer to the original question, just really fancied a ride! I may also just try turning up on the day and attempt to convince someone to do it.

I took a quick look and the hire fleet is Trek which all look to have gone SRAM, they can be flipped so anything running that should be fine, might be a bit of a pain with matchmaker clamps though but nothing more than 10 mins in the car park, failing that take a small spanner and allen key with you

Mike +1

It's a no from me. Live in Canada so almost all people run the brakes opposite to me and I find it hard to adapt.

However even Shimano can be swapped and it's not that hard. With practice it only takes minutes. Take allen keys and an 8mm spanner for shimano.

I have one bike UK, one bike Euro style and often hire then that way when abroad. Never been an issue.

I've used bikes with brakes on the 'wrong' way and it's terrible. I could barely hold a line on singletrack. Turns out I use different brakes for balance without any conscious thought. Then I went over the bars after inadvertently grabbing a load of front brake.

I've had hire places swap levers for me, though they did grumble about it - I can see why they wouldn't bother for day hire if it's a case of swapping hoses etc.

It's a two minute job to swap hoses. We do it for every one of our hires. Tske an 8mm spanner with you and a cheap shimano bleed kit. You won't need the bleed kit but just in case.

There is no way one of our hire bikes goes out with the brakes on the wrong way!

I keep meaning to teach myself to ride with the brakes the other way round. I think it would be time well spent.

Did it once in Morzine. Was ok just cruising but first time I went down Pleny I had a massive otb 'just feathering back brake' which was of course the front.
Took bike straight back to rental place & found somewhere with easily swappable levers.

just remember one thing

RIGHT = REAR

R = R

you'll be reet

It takes about 10 minutes max to adapt

Stuff and nonsense. Did you actually take it off-road?

Poison spider in Moab swapped ours round no problems, butvthey were Hayes. In tignes last month we just swapped them ourselves ( Avid)

If you're doing anything interesting enough to warrant the effort getting there then you need the brakes set up right.

have done rentals in Europe and US with brakes wrong way round and ended dragging back brake for the first couple of descents to remind myself that's where it was, then it was OK, even when having to grab a handful quickly

You will be fine. Done several days in us with the brakes the wrong way round. Moab, crested bite and fruita. Takes a max of 1/2 to get used to go it.

Top of the chairlift I thought I would die but by the bottom you have it sorted.

I run my brakes that way round anyway - rear on the right. I am very right-handed so in any 'moment of panic' it will be the right that I grab, so I'd rather that not be the front brake.

Cruising XC, no problem.
5 bikes here, 3 set up one way, 2 set up the other, but only cos I've not got round to swapping and chopping hoses yet.
Road bike (that I've not ridden for years) is one of those the wrong way around. No idea why. Must have been like it since 1989.

Only embarrassment so far is grabbing a handful of [strike]front[/strike] erm rear 😉 when coming up behind OAPs out for a sunday afternoon stroll on the local bike path thru the forest, and doing skids long enough to challenge those that fixie hipsters do in their posing competitions.

And maybe a couple of times when braking round corners.

It's the unexpected that grows you where you just react rather than have time to think.
I got away with it for a day on holiday and I found while you have time to think it's all fine though a bit of a reset every time... but when the unexpected happens instinct makes you grab the brakes as you are used to... probably everyone has slightly different experiences depending how they brake... and its not necessarily which brake but where you naturally adjust your weight as you do...

In other words if your body thinks your grabbing a handful of front that's on thing but if it thinks your grabbing a handful of rear and some front it's a different matter.

Chatting to the owner of the hotel I was staying in on a ski
holiday, and he relayed an anecdote about a summer guest who had really, really hurt himself. Not even half an hour in he had grabbed the wrong brake on a rented bike and went OTB. Hospitalised with multiple fractures kind of hurt.

Just get your brain working !

At worst you should grab lots of rear brake and do big skids

As Turnef - I ride with them that way too and always have done.
I'm right handed so rear brake for that hand.
If you actually think about it it's the right way to do it - dominant hand takes precedence.
One to many OTB as a 7yr old on a Raleigh Stiker solved that one!

I've done it 4 time's with day hire bikes, took about half hour to get used to it, but still had to keep reminding myself through each day and there was the odd 'Oop's! Wrong brake!' moment. Most of those were at times where I was pushing it a bit. Only once did it really go wrong with a big OTB's, that resulted in me breaking two fingers and fracturing my eye socket.

Recipe for disaster! You'll be telling yourself - Right=rear, left=front for ages, but then something will happen which requires tactical braking and muscle memory will kick in. As happened to me on a hire bike in NYC when I suddenly had to grab a handful of rear brake and went massively OTB...

Get them swapped. Or take an 6mm (7,8??) spanner with you and swap when out of sight on the trail... If you're careful, they won't need a bleed.

Stuff and nonsense. Did you actually take it off-road?

I spent a fantastic day mtbing in the Canadian Rockies this summer. The brakes didn't give me much of a problem, and I got used to it quickly, but I'm not prone to grabbing the brakes in a panic.

i have always run my bikes with the back on the right (Old bmx'er) and it usually takes me 2 to 3 mins to swap hoses over, i'd get the bike and do it myself 😉

Stuff and nonsense. Did you actually take it off-road?

i borrowed a spesh epic in canada this summer. thought it might be an issue, decided it was too much hassle to swap around on a bike that wasn't mine.

thought about it for about 100yds and then wasnt an issue at all for the next 60-70 miles of riding.

i did keep riding on the wrong side of the roads though.

If you actually think about it it's the right way to do it - dominant hand takes precedence.

Nah. You need the most powerful brake in the most controllable hand, and for most that's the right hand.

You'll be telling me we should drive on the other side of the road next 🙄

for those who have swopped them over on hire bikes, are hoses always long enough ?

Nah. You need the most powerful brake in the most controllable hand, and for most that's the right hand.

or not, for the reasons quoted.

Didn't bother reading what was written did you....
So STW...

for those who have swopped them over on hire bikes, are hoses always long enough ?

if you're just changing the lever from left to right brake shouldn't ever be an issue.

Just swap the levers over. I used a rental out in the states a few years ago. The bike had Shimano brakes.
Ok, it doesn't look pretty and the shifters need to be positioned so there was a bit of a reach to get there but better that then grabbing a hand full of front brake when you thought it was the rear.
It was fine. I didn't swap them back when I handed the bike back and there were comments but the guys in the shop were more than reasonable.
Mrs Wachowchow had a nasty off in Brazil while trying to get used to the brakes being the wrong way around.

simons_nicolai-uk - Member
for those who have swopped them over on hire bikes, are hoses always long enough ?

if you're just changing the lever from left to right brake shouldn't ever be an issue.

I can see how the rear will be fine moving from right to left side of the bars, but wouldn't the front be a bit short moving from left to right ?

Are you guys swapping over the levers? Or keeping the levers there and swapping over the hoses?

If the latter how are you doing that without spilling fluid? When you take the hose out doesn't liquid come out of the master cylinder? (Unless by taking nit the lid off it's creating a vacuum?)

In the Pyrenees a few years back I was lent a Cannondale for a weekends riding.

The ride to the first trail was about 4 miles on road, and it took me that long to get used to the brakes being the wrong way around. I just spent a bit of time practising, grabbed a hand full a few times.

Had no problems for the rest of the weekends riding, and we did some pretty steep stuff.

One caveat - I did run a BMX with a single rear brake in the right for many years, so that probably helped.

You will die, so swop them.

You need the most powerful brake in the most controllable hand, and for most that's the right hand.

I think the difference depends on what side of the road you ride on and which hand needs to come off the bar signalling a turn. Rear wheel lockups being more controllable one handed than front wheel lockups. So for UK, signal right, left hand has the back brake. Opposite hand in Euroland but the hand on the bar has the back brake.

I asked about swapping Shimano M/C's over on the bars. This would mean the bleed port would be upside down, not that this in itself would be an issue. But... internally, after taking the big M/C cover off, they are definitely made to be one way up, not the other. Upside down they would ingest the small amount of air in the M/C.

Swapping would be a hose change, not a lever change.

If your not sure, swop your current bike and go for a ride. If you end up in A&E you have your answer 🙂

Quote the new directive and get them to swap all the brakes on all bikes: [url= http://enduro-mtb.com/en/new-eu-directive-demands-uk-style-braking/ ]Moto-Style Brakes[/url]

(In all seriousness, and as a motorcyclist myself I can't understand why there is a difference with the rest of the world having bike front brake different to motorbike front brake?)

(In all seriousness, and as a motorcyclist myself I can't understand why there is a difference with the rest of the world having bike front brake different to motorbike front brake?)

as others have said, a hose swap on shimano brakes is the work of less than 5 minutes and if done carefully shouldn't require a bleed. only issue I can see is that the olives are designed to be single us, but shouldn't be an issue with 'second' use as a one off. I can only assume this is why the shops don't want to do it

as others have said, a hose swap on shimano brakes is the work of less than 5 minutes and if done carefully shouldn't require a bleed. only issue I can see is that the olives are designed to be single us, but shouldn't be an issue with 'second' use as a one off. I can only assume this is why the shops don't want to do it

Cock it up though and you either have to return to the shop and explain why the brakes are buggered, or if you cock it up when switching them back (cos you would right?) then the next rider might have a nasty accident when their brakes fail.

Seriously, just MTFU and ride them like they are 😉

Didn't bother reading what was written did you....
So STW...

Who? Me?

I'm in the none issue camp. Far less tricky than first time driving abroad.

Don't know how true that is or if there is some authoritative source for the info..

Sheldon Brown couldn't find one.

[i]The theory that seems most probable to me is that the national standards arose from a concern that the cyclist be able to make hand signals, and still be able to reach the primary brake. This logical idea is, unfortunately, accompanied by the incorrect premise that the rear brake is the primary brake.
For this reason, I set my own bikes up so that the right hand controls the front brake, which is not the norm in the U.S.

I also do this because I'm right-handed, and wish to have my more skillful hand operate the more critical brake.[/i]

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

I am pretty sure I would find it very hard to adapt based on riding hire bikes with euro style brakes, motorcycles with different gear shift sides and bicycles with different direction twistshifters.

I would go so far as to say that for me it would be really quite dangerous so it would be swap or not ride for anything other than bimbling riding

I never understood why this is a big deal.

When I first moved over here (the UK) 15 years ago, I brought my Trek Fuel 90 with me. It obviously had the brakes on the North American way. I didn't know there was a difference, but when I then bought a bike in the UK, I tried it, thought to myself "oh, the brakes are on the other way 'round", and got on with riding.

Today, one of my road bikes has its brakes on the Euro/NA way, and I hardly notice.

Don't worry about it!

Did a week in Majorca on a hired full sus with euro brakes. Never again - it was fine 95% of the time but the 5% was the fun steep stuff and my brain just reverted to UK set up.

This logical idea is, unfortunately, accompanied by the incorrect premise that the rear brake is the primary brake.

I have to confess, however, that though I live in France I swap my bikes over to the proper and correct way i.e. Front brake on the [s]fapping[/s] stronger hand because that's how I like it. I had a dilemma with my son's Isla and left him with them the "wrong" way round having [s]over analysed the question for weeks and weeks[/s] considered things and decided he might borrow bikes likely to be set up the other way in the future, so was probably better off complying to the norm.

I am pretty sure I would find it very hard to adapt based on riding hire bikes with euro style brakes

i was pretty sure i would too, in reality it made no difference at all.

Interesting variation in responses here. My guess is that it reflects the wide range of people on here and OP should certainly not assume that just because some people don't have problems, that they won't either.

Personally, I've ridden UK-brakes on bikes for 30 years now and I am 100% confident that no matter how much I chant "right is rear, right is rear", when thing go wrong, I [i]will[/i] grab the wrong brake and grab it hard, and it [i]will[/i] hurt like hell!

For me, at least, it would be "swap the brakes, or don't ride" without any question whatsoever. Useful thread though, and I'm going to take my [url= https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Park-Tool-MWF1-Flare-Nut-Wrench-For-Hydraulic-Brakes_100309.htm ]trusty flare spanner[/url] with me when I next head off to foreign climes with the intention of renting a bike.

If it's a week from now then switch your own brakes across now to get used to it. Ive switched all my bikes now and it does take a while to get properly used to bit you do. As mentioned by others, the problem isn't when you are cruising along but rather when you have to brake suddenly.

Could you not just leave the levers as they are but cross your arms over, that way right hand will still operate front brake?

jambo - I have ridden with wrong way brkes - It was fine for pootling around but I didn't get used to it even over a whole days riding and if I wasn't concentrating on which brake to use I grabbed the wrong one.

I wonder if the different responses come from whether you are in the "[i]slow rider, brake dragging camp[/i]" (as this is unlikely to make a huge difference if slowly riding adn draggin either brake) or you're in the "[i]thrash the bejeesus out of my bike, snatch the rear brake, skid the tyre, 100%on/off braking camp[/i]"??

DrP

DrP - I am in the ride slowly but brake hard using front brake mainly camp - hence grabbing the rear instead leads to skidding not stopping

First trip Les Gets, I rode a hire bike with brakes euro style and didn't die. I'm a bimbler though, so was riding conservatively, if as others have said if your more aggressive/on the limit type of rider you could run into problems.

I'll never get why Euros and the Yanks use the left lever for the front. The front requires fine modulation so as you don't flip over the bars - most people are right hand dominant, thus having better co-ordination with the right hand surely?

See..i disagree with this "more control with the right hand" argument....

I'd crash and die because I'd think i was grabbing the rear brake, and it'd be the front. Nothing to do with not enough 'modulation'..

People can modulate/control a brake jsut fine with either hand (the control needed to wheelie needs to be fine... rear brake etc etc).

I tried riding trials at the Morzine trials show at the PdS in 2011 (i think). I'm actually (well, was) a pretty good trials rider. I looked like a complete rookie buffoon as the bike was set up euro style 😳

DrP

I'm not so sure, have you ever watched someone play the Piano for the first time?

And I don't just mean the inability to seperate what you're doing with each finger, but the fact that they cannot get the dynamics right - especially with their non-dominant hand. I reckon dynamics are a pretty good indicator of how well you can modulate your brakes.

I read somewhere that driving on the left is statistically safer as well, because more people are right hand and right eye dominant.

Interesting variation of responses, thanks all. I'm already in the US not riding, so experimenting with my own bike not possible. No tools or owt with me except an Allen key multi tool.

Have been told over the phone that they are running Shimano brakes on their rental fleet. So therein lies the issue. Not sure how well they'd take to being run upside down.

I'm just going to not book and turn up at the shop on Saturday and offer them a bit of extra money to swap them over. Its the penultimate day of the season for the bike park so hopefully they'll see it as a chance to wring the last few quid out of one of the hires before they flog them all.

If they're dicks about it I'll just go hiking instead. Have had my Mtb holiday earlier in the summer so not feeling like I've got to ride.

I've done it twice. Once was at a MTB event I rode in Austria, I arrived with a broken bike, so had to hire one. 211km, 7,000m climbing, and descending with no problems on brakes the wrong way.
2nd time was a road bike hire, no problems descending Etna at speed.

I read somewhere that driving on the left is statistically safer as well, because more people are right hand and right eye dominant.

Something to do with ducking to the left when the other tribe lobbed rocks at you. That's why driving on the left is the correct way according to the Institute of Studies - we always swerve left to the safety of the ditch*.

Hth
Marko
*This might be made up (or true).

Incidentally I'm also riding in Santa Cruz whilst I'm here on a factory demo bike. They've got no issues swapping brakes over for me. So the guys at mammoth are being a bit dickish imo.

I hired a Surly Krampus in the States. Cable disks do 2 minute job to correct the setup myself.
Wouldn't even consider ridding in any serious way with them arse about face.

Something to do with ducking to the left when the other tribe lobbed rocks at you. That's why driving on the left is the correct way according to the Institute of Studies - we always swerve left to the safety of the ditch*.

Hth
Marko
*This might be made up (or true).

[b]Institute of studies[/b]

I assume this is a joke - as you're referencing the Daily Mash

but

Research in 1969 by J. J. Leeming showed countries driving on the left have a lower collision rate than countries driving on the right, although he acknowledged that the sample of left-hand rule countries he had to work with was small, and he was very careful not to claim that his results proved that the differences were due to the rule of the road. It has been suggested this is partly because humans are more commonly right-eye dominant than left-eye dominant. In left-hand traffic, the predominantly better-performing right eye is used to monitor oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror. In right-hand traffic, oncoming traffic and the driver's wing mirror are handled by the predominantly weaker left eye. In addition, it has been argued that left sided driving is safer for elderly people given the likelihood of their having visual attention deficits on the left side and the need at intersections to watch out for vehicles approaching on the near-side lane. Furthermore, in an RHD car with manual transmission, the driver maintains his or her right (i.e. in the majority of people, dominant) hand on the steering wheel at all times and uses their left hand to change gear.

I run my brakes the Euro way round and if I borrow a bike from a friend it’s a bit of work to remember which way round things are. I’m not sure I’d want to ride anything that wasn’t a chunk inside my comfort zone though.

Those telling you that you'll adapt quickly are either deluded, lucky or perambulators. If you have time to think Right = Rear then you're riding with my Grandma. Either swap them or don't ride anything more challenging than a towpath.

I think I agree. If I was riding somewhere familiar then possibly I'd give it a go and see how I got on. It isn't worth trying it and breaking myself and ruining the rest of my holiday though. Also, the unhelpfulness of the companies in question isn't motivating me to give them my cash. Will speak to them in person about swapping them over and see what happens.

Those telling you that you'll adapt quickly are either deluded, lucky or perambulators. If you have time to think Right = Rear then you're riding with my Grandma. Either swap them or don't ride anything more challenging than a towpath.

You'll adapt quickly 😀

Would it be economical to buy a set of saints/ SLX/ Deore in a USA bike shop, have the levers swopped in the shop, attach them to the hire bike and then flog them on eBay when you return?

Would it be economical to buy a set of saints/ SLX/ Deore in a USA bike shop, have the levers swopped in the shop, attach them to the hire bike and then flog them on eBay when you return?

This, flog a set of Zees to me. In London, if you're near by and the brakes aren't ****ed by the time you get back, I'll pay for them in cash - or via paypal if you so wish.

Those telling you that you'll adapt quickly are either deluded, lucky or perambulators. If you have time to think Right = Rear then you're riding with my Grandma. Either swap them or don't ride anything more challenging than a towpath.

No, just better than you at a simple task.

At what? Riding with his grandma?

You pervert.

[img] [/img]

All this talk of going over the bars by grabbing the wrong brake is nonsense.

I can go over the bars by grabbing the correct brake so its clearly not to do with swapping!

If anything, at least for right-handers, grabbing far too much brake will be on the rear, causing a 27ft skid rather than an OTB.
Maybe cack-handed lefties might OTB rather than skid? 😉

If anything, at least for right-handers, grabbing far too much brake will be on the rear, causing a 27ft skid rather than an OTB

This +1, panic braking on a hired road bike & I hit the "skid but don't slow down very much" brake twice in the same emergency stop manoeuvre