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if he has a lawyer then he must have an accountant too
His turnover must be mahoosive
Selling here with different IDs plus eBay, bikeradar, bikemagic, gravity slaves and others presumably with multiple aliases on all of them too
He totally must be legit and pay tax
There's no way you could keep a turnover of 3-6k a month under the radar is there?
And who wants a nice patriot and some expensive parts for it?
There's a beaut on eBay and bikeradar at the mo
Do you think it comes with all the bits for the rear caliper?
IIRC, he forwarded me his solicitor's response to him, which pretty much said he should pay up the 50% I'd suggested, put it down to experience and move on.
He's obviously too stupid to even take his own lawyers advice!
What a nob.
easy to block IP addresses.& just as easy to use another one
If you employ what a lot of the motor Forums (can only start trading once you have 50 posts in other no trading areas of the forum) and apply this everytime they re register or there is a new IP address, it will deter a lot of the fraudsters. they are in it for a quick buck, that stops them.
An update:
I found all the recent for sale ads that ireallylovebikes (freeform5spot / Peter Gratwick / bustafajones etc) has made on Bike Radar and made a few replies..
Within less than 12hrs Bike Radar's Moderators removed all his posts.
Plus it looks like they've restricted his account - see below.
I then received a PM from Peter Gratwick via Bike Radar asking for my details so that he can pay the money he owes... Let's see if he does, and I will keep this post updated with progress.
Chipps & STW Moderators - if Bike Radar's Mods can act so swiftly/decisively to restrict a professional trader's abuse of their Forum why didn't/don't you?
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I then received a PM from Peter Gratwick via Bike Radar asking for my details so that he can pay the money he owes... Let's see if he does, and I will keep this post updated with progress.
I would rather just keep messing up his business rather. It would be more satisfying in the long run.
Use common sense.
If its an expensive item - arrange to collect or drive to.
I wouldn't pay £600 for an item from someone that I'd never met.
I've bought the odd £200-£300 item but I have secured work and home address details first. If I was to be stung I was more than willing to drive any distance to visit these. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.
The amount of time I've posted 'oh I'd really like that but your too far for me/too new' just as a reality-check to somepeople who have posted on the same thread excitedly demanding the goods/dibs asap....
Quirrel - Don't be a fool. It's not about some sort of teenage vendetta. The OP has received an offer to sort things out financially. Leave it at that.
Hora- I agree which is why we need some sort of system. Wether that's 50 posts before you can trade or something else. The lack of discussion from Moderators is somewhat concerning. It seems that it's fine to ban people for swearing but not to enter in debate into ways to improve the forum for the users. If it's a time/resource issue I'm sure that there would be a number of users willing to be a 'trading mod'. Myself included.
Don't be a fool. It's not about some sort of teenage vendetta. The OP has received an offer to sort things out financially. Leave it at that.
Vendetta? I was thinking more vigilante.
Chipps & STW Moderators - if Bike Radar's Mods can act so swiftly/decisively to restrict a professional trader's abuse of their Forum why didn't/don't you?
There's a lot goes on behind scenes that goes unnoticed at times. This thread has started discussions but some idea can't happen over night. Anyone we believe to be trade has their account blocked, as we are volunteer plus ST staff who are busy with the mag and other projects we rely on tip offs so we can look into the concerns.
Either email us or more effectively click a report post and add you concerns. we are looking into this with some concern but please give us a little time and don't expect a massive change too quick.
If you employ what a lot of the motor Forums (can only start trading once you have 50 posts in other no trading areas of the forum) and apply this everytime they re register or there is a new IP address, it will deter a lot of the fraudsters. they are in it for a quick buck, that stops them.
some ISPs will allocate a new IP every time you logon
+ people will have different IPs from their home PC, their work PC & their mobile
IP blocking isn't the answer
Drac - thanks, that's good to know.
I did email the STW Mods twice about freeform5spot, but received no reply.
I think this post says it all really - there's surely more than enough meat in here for you to look into.
If you'd like more specifics I'd be happy to help - just send me a PM or email.
Hora, you're right of course - it was my mistake to trust him. However, I believe in the benevolence of STW Forumers.. and my trust in people on this Forum has over the past many years only once been proven to be wrong - with freeform5spot. Maybe I'm naive, but STW is a Community.
This morning Peter Gratwick asked for my details to pay back what he owes. Let's see if he does. If he pays up, then so far as I'm concerned this particular matter will be closed.
If he doesn't, well, watch this space!
Regardless: STW desperately needs some kind of Seller/Buyer Feedback rating and this would help us all as this episode has proven.
Mr fivespot appears to be a blocked user on here now too
I did email the STW Mods twice about freeform5spot, but received no reply.
We get a lot of reports every day and it's impractical for us to reply to them all. We look into them all and take any action we think is necessary. Often this is a quiet word in the ear of the offender - sometimes it's a ban. Either of which would not be entirely obvious to the many who reported them. So please don;t assume that if you get no reply from the moderators that nothing has been done.
I wouldn't say that there was a desperate need for a new system, although we are looking at options to improve it. The truth is that there are hundreds of transactions every day that go ahead smoothly and without any problems. These don't get reported of course. The handful of cases where something goes wrong are almost always brought up in open forum and are hence very prominent. This gives a slightly skewed impression of a classifieds that is rife with corruption and scammers. The simple fact is that the vast majority of sales go without a hitch. The solution to us seems to need to involve a mechanism that makes visible to majority of the 'hitchless' transactions.
There's been some good ideas on this thread so keep them coming.. we are listening.
He was active on here 1hr 35mins ago...
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Perhaps there could be a query section for those sales that don't go according to plan ie, delay with postage, item not arriving problem with payment, the members involved would stay in the query section until the dispute is resolved. If the problems are not resolved then its up to the mods to take the appropriate action by blocking or banning them. Or anyone posting items for sale must give a valid address or proof they are genuine that can be kept by the moderators and not disclosed almost like an intermediary. Not fully sure if these ideas are workable, just a suggestion.
Personally, I think the simplest idea is to create a "Feedback Forum" where people's Usernames can be listed and Buyers/Sellers post their experiences - or not - as they see fit.
That keeps it separate from spamming up the main Bike or Classifieds Forums, and would make it the 'go-to' place to see a Seller's rating.
He was active on here 1hr 35mins ago...
well, I guess he was blocked after that then?
He was active on here 1hr 35mins ago...
The Profile may show that as he's probably tried to get on.
FWIW I've bought a few bits from Pete and vaguely know him as a result. Never had any issues and he seems a decent bloke; clearly not everyone's experience but I doubt everyone who has been happy with his service will be shouting up.
I've just found out this guy Pete is bidding on an ebay item I'm selling under his freeform5spot user name.
If he ends up winning, should I be apprehensive about taking his money? is it worth the potential hassle??
No. You shouldn't be apprehensive. He has no history of being anything other than straight in any purchases. You also have ebay/paypal as protection. This particular issue I think has just got a little out of hand. The OP is in the process of resolving his issue and the mods have taken the action that they deem appropriate.
Another idea which may work is to close the classifieds to anything other than registered/verified users. ie only the Bike and Chat forums are only able to be view when a user is logged in.
his particular issue I think has just got a little out of hand.
You seem to be championing him on this thread.
He has no history of being anything other than straight in any purchases
Unless you are the purchaser it, appears.
It took this thread and action on the OP's part to get a response. Is the freeform5spot user to be let off the hook because he has paid up this time?
Sound like this was a pointless thread if that is the case.
I bought something from Mr Gratwick, It took a gentle reminder a few days after I paid for him to post the item. It did arrive as described but the delivery was slow.
B
Quirrel. I haven't 'championed' anyone! Please try and get a sense of perspective.
I have stated fact in my last post. As a seller there are some instances of him being slow to post. Something I am guilty of too. As a buyer there is no evidence to suggest that you wouldn't be paid. If you really don't want to sell, then cancel the bid.
What hook is Freeform5spot being let off? He's had his account suspended here, and on bikeradar by the look of it. He's been publicly outed in this thread which I would find personally unpleasant. I presume something has been said on Bikeradar.
Following the start of this thread he has come forward and offered to make amends. Arguably this should have all gone on behind closed doors, so to speak and preferably before this thread got going.
I have made my views on traders on the forum clear and suggested a number of ways we could control who uses the trading forum. I have bought things from (and met) Pete on a couple of occasions and he seems like a decent guy. I think things have gotten a little out of hand. However; as I said, this is now being rectified. I haven't had problems with anything I bought from Pete and a friend on here (JonR) has bought stuff off him too. There are also a few other people on here who have bought from him and it's been fine. Judging my the amount of stuff he's shifted then the odd trade doesn't go quite as smoothly. You get that in shops too though don't you?
so who votes for a feedback subforum???
I've already started.
I've just bought some £50 brakes from Jimmy-s3 who didn't have a big posting history. I thought about backing out of the purchase at one point, as it felt like a shot in the dark, but he answered all my emails every evening, we struck a deal and the brakes arrived quickly, just as described and pictured.
So I left some feedback on the for sale thread which anyone can check as has been suggested many times. No, it's not perfect, but I'm well known on here so it's a start.
We don't need the mods help to start the ball rolling, we just need to get on with it ourselves!
But a sticky at the top of the classifides would help things along, which would take very little effort.... How about it mods? 😀
As a seller there are some instances of him being slow to post.
Er, there is evidence of much more serious issues with freeform5spot than slow postage Andy!
Following the start of this thread he has come forward and offered to make amends
And hasn't done so yet - let's wait and see whether he does make amends or not.
Arguably this should have all gone on behind closed doors, so to speak and preferably before this thread got going.
It did - I tried in vain for SEVEN MONTHS(!) to resolve this with freeform5spot / Peter Gratwick / bustafajones. This is all detailed in this thread.
I'm not the OP, I replied to the OP's suggestion of a Seller Feedback rating or forum, which is a very good idea I think. Hence my reply. In it I mentioned the one and only person I'd had a poor experience with, freeform5spot, and doing so kicked off this debate.
I'm pleased that it did. If Peter Gratwick does actually make amends then so far as I'm concerned my issue with him over that sale is done. However, this thread (and others) have exposed him as a professional Trader with unreliable trading practices that lowers the standards of the STW Classifieds for legitimate buyers and sellers on there.
This is not about just being late to the Post Office.
I bought a XTR chainset from him but I was unsure due to the number of sales & what people were saying about him so I drove 2 hours each way to pick them up & paid cash.. Any body what his address?
We deffo need a feedback system to rate buyers / sellers.
My proposal:
1. Keep it as it is.
2. Use your ****ing common sense.
Just put up a seller feedback thread. If people want to use it then that would be great. If they don't it will just slink off the page.
Andy
AndyHilton=freeform5spot?
AndyHilton=freeform5spot?
No. I've met him (top bloke who is more than willing to help a STW'er) and he lives close to me. He most certainly isn't him.
I've known AndyHilton for nearly 16 years and if he were breaking that many bikes there is no way he wouldn't have phoned me up to borrow tools.
Anyway to balance the karma thing (I dont like asskissing).....andyhilton likes drowning kittens in his spare time whilst driving over OAP's who don't cross the road fast enough.
A feedback forum won't really work, due to peoples differing opinions of whats acceptable & whats not.
If you read the thread its pretty obvious andy isn't freeform5spot
The tax thing mentioned earlier is interesting though
From the size of his turnover he Is obviously running it as a business so I'm sure he is legit but at what level does trading become tax evasion?
Or another way of thinking is would you grass someone on benefits working on tthe side for a bit extra for crimbo?
But what about someone in a full time job making more than the average salary flogging expensive bits of bike on the side for the last 4-6 years?
The feedback thing would be simple to do
All any seller has to do is start a new post in the classifieds simply titled with their username
Anyone who has any dealings with them can just add comments to it - In fact anyone could start one on a sellers behalf if they hadn't done it for themselves [for whatever reason]
The way that the classifieds works means that the post will soon disappear off the first few pages but will be easily searchable so won't clog anything up or be intrusive at all
simple & effective
Uplink - as Suggested in an earlier thread.
Stick your feedback on th original FS or WTD thread then add a tag to the thread in the format:
FEEDBACK username
It would then be easy to pull all threads back that contained feedback for an individual user via the tag function.
It would then be easy to pull all threads back that contained feedback for an individual user.
fair enough, but you'd have to go through them all individually -
1 thread would keep it all nice & neat
I'm not sure most folks use the tags - I know I don't
Fair point, can people title the feedback thread in a standard way, so it's nice and easy to search for and you don't need to trawl through all their posts.
Fair point, can people ne the feedback thread in a standard way, so it's nice and easy to search for and you don't need to trawl through all their posts
If the title of the thread was simply their username & nothing else, it would be easy peasy
Hmm, more scams from Peter Gratwick I'm afraid, as a Google around this morning shows.. this time on Bikemagic Forum, last year
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and...
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[b][Your giving out too much personal info - Mod][/b]
Errr, should you be posting someone's private address for all to see...?
Nope, that's why I've masked it.