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The feedback system would have helped with Lyons though. Myself and at least 2 others have been messed around by him.
"JonR - Member
The thing that 5spot seems to have going for him is he seems a really decent bloke and so any censure would be harsh but as AndyH says a touch more clarity would be nice. "
Clarity to his trading status and the origin of all the stuff I would say.
Those that have bought stuff from freeform5spot and not had issues are lucky - there are several horror stories such as mine.
Chipps- we're not talking about someone who's just tardy getting to the Post Office. Looking at the sheer quantity of stuff freeform5spot sells on this Forum he is clearly a 'Trader' operating a business on STW. Furthemore, he's doing it fraudulently - selling broken, damaged and not as described goods in my case (and others it appears!)
He sold me a Turner 5 Spot frame which he advertised as a 2010 frame (a new warranty replacement). It was in fact a 2009 frame, easily identifiable from the serial number and earlier frame features. So at a minimum he overstated/misrepresented the truth.
The Lyrik forks that came with it did not work properly and when sent to TF Tuned for inspection turned out to be completely ****ed, requiring £225+ of repair work. The Mission Control cartridge is completely knackered and would require a further £120 replacement, which I did not bother with.
Furthermore, the Specialized Command Post, also included in the stuff I bought from him, was quite clearly broken and wouldn't go up and down at all. When I sent it to Specialized they said it had suffered a major impact while in the low position and required £65 worth or repairs, new head etc, which I paid for.
All this was in May this year.
Over the course of the past 7 months I have called, emailed, texted and pleaded with Peter Gratwick/freeform5spot to try to settle the matter. I offered to split the repair costs 50/50 wit him, which he initially refused, then agreed, the refused, etc.. I also emailed the STW Mods twice about this, as I think it is simply unacceptable behaviour for the STW forum to be abused in this way.
After 5 months freeform5spot agreed to a partial refund of £60, promising a further £60 which I agreed to in full and final settlement of the matter. Of course, I'm still waiting for that (no surprise) - with no hope whatsoever of getting it.
I paid £1,500 to freeform5spot for a frame that was not as advertised, was missing a crucial part needed to even make it work, with forks that were broken, a seatpost that was broken - I've spent over £1,800 so far and yet he continues to trade on this forum.
Peter Gratwick/freeform5spot has given me the run around for 7 months and even threatened to set his "Family Solicitor" upon me!
People like him let STW down.
Exactly that. Something along the lines of the truth
'Bought this bike to split. All components look to be in 'X' condition but obviously having used these components I cannot vouch for there true condition'
Except on seatposts, saddles etc. Stuff that is what it is. Not forks and complicated expensive stuff.
Those that have bought stuff from freeform5spot and not had issues are lucky - there are several horror stories such as mine.Chipps- we're not talking about someone who's just tardy getting to the Post Office. Looking at the sheer quantity of stuff freeform5spot sells on this Forum he is clearly a 'Trader' operating a business on STW. Furthemore, he's doing it fraudulently - selling broken, damaged and not as described goods in my case (and others it appears!)
He sold me a Turner 5 Spot frame which he advertised as a 2010 frame (a new warranty replacement). It was in fact a 2009 frame, easily identifiable from the serial number and earlier frame features. So at a minimum he overstated/misrepresented the truth.
The Lyrik forks that came with it did not work properly and when sent to TF Tuned for inspection turned out to be completely ****ed, requiring £225+ of repair work. The Mission Control cartridge is completely knackered and would require a further £120 replacement, which I did not bother with.
Furthermore, the Specialized Command Post, also included in the stuff I bought from him, was quite clearly broken and wouldn't go up and down at all. When I sent it to Specialized they said it had suffered a major impact while in the low position and required £65 worth or repairs, new head etc, which I paid for.
All this was in May this year.
Over the course of the past 7 months I have called, emailed, texted and pleaded with Peter Gratwick/freeform5spot to try to settle the matter. I offered to split the repair costs 50/50 wit him, which he initially refused, then agreed, the refused, etc.. I also emailed the STW Mods twice about this, as I think it is simply unacceptable behaviour for the STW forum to be abused in this way.
After 5 months freeform5spot agreed to a partial refund of £60, promising a further £60 which I agreed to in full and final settlement of the matter. Of course, I'm still waiting for that (no surprise) - with no hope whatsoever of getting it.
I paid £1,500 to freeform5spot for a frame that was not as advertised, was missing a crucial part needed to even make it work, with forks that were broken, a seatpost that was broken - I've spent over £1,800 so far and yet he continues to trade on this forum.
Peter Gratwick/freeform5spot has given me the run around for 7 months and even threatened to set his "Family Solicitor" upon me!
People like him let STW down.
This has soured my view of him somewhat. If it were me I'm petty enough to spoil every classified post he makes on here and on bike radar where he post as ireallylikebikes with a warning that he is a trader and a scammer.
I have started to do something like that - a much smaller, edited version.
Am expecting a letter from his Solicitors imminently as a result of these posts.... 😀 which I look forward to ignoring as he has done me! 😈
Doh. I'll admit I have started feeling a bit more wary when looking at stuff on the classifieds - to the point where even the way the seller describes the thing they're selling makes me think 'hmmmm'.
I'm currently going through the process with freeform - so far it's all been fine and he's been quite flexible. I'll report back either way when it's complete.
Here's an idea which is sort of pinched from RetroBike. When I bought or sold stuff from there, once finished the guy asked if I'd mind posting on his feedback thread - this was just a thread he's started a while back with the title ""AUsername" - feedback". And everyone who bought from him or sold to him posts on there. The thread has a static URL so can infinitely be referred back to and searched for. No extra work on anyone's part. Obviously if the user doesn't start a thread themselves, someone else can start it on their behalf, as long as the title contains Username & feedback, its easily searchable.
Whats not to like? Who's gonna start their feedback thread first....?
I can understand folk who've been burned by dodgy ads etc objecting to him operating some sort of business as it's against the clearly stated rules but if this were to be applied there'd be quite a few sellers in the firing line. Fair enough, maybe, when you read the rules.
But then there is one guy who answers each "what bike for..." thread with blatant plugs for bikes he has a vested interest in selling...I'm not in anyway slagging him, his bikes or his habit of doing this, or suggesting he sells dodgy stuff{unlike 5Spot allledgedly} just wondering if this is not in some way a trade ad in stealth mode?
Here's an idea which is sort of pinched from RetroBike. When I bought or sold stuff from there, once finished the guy asked if I'd mind posting on his feedback thread - this was just a thread he's started a while back with the title ""AUsername" - feedback". And everyone who bought from him or sold to him posts on there. The thread has a static URL so can infinitely be referred back to and searched for. No extra work on anyone's part. Obviously if the user doesn't start a thread themselves, someone else can start it on their behalf, as long as the title contains Username & feedback, its easily searchable.Whats not to like? Who's gonna start their feedback thread first....?
If you did this on the bike forum or the chat forum they would start to spam up the board a bit but if another forum were opened for it in the same way that the new wanted forum has sprung up then I reckon it could be a winner and wouldn't take much programming time. Up to the mods I guess but sounds to me like the easiest option so far.
Chipps are you still there? Any further comments?
Andyhilton -
Member
The feedback system would have helped with Lyons though. Myself and at least 2 others have been messed around by him.
To be fair a search of his username would have shown him as someone not to deal with I'm afraid
that idea about a feedback subsection is the best so far. only problem i can see is that do threads get deleted after so long?
maybe the mods could trial it for a while as i would have thought it would be a 2 minute job to sort out (i could be horribly wrong though)
Peter Gratwick was bustafajone's name as well.
What a coincidence eh 😕
Passing broken stuff off and getting people to pay good money for it is tantamount to stealing.
If more people donated to the stw beer fund when having sold stuff as chipps has said (I have done a few times as it goes) then they might be more proactive in sorting the problems on the classifieds?
Having said that feel for Digger, not nice that at all.
For me I think this should be a sticky -
[url= http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm ]Paypal Calculator[/url]
At least then you'll have some sort of protection.
And if they dont accept paypal, then no sale. I also check other forums to see if their stuff is for sale there too.
digger90 - good to see you present your biased side so well!
you forgot to add the telephone conversations we had about the frame when we discussed that it was a warranty replacement that was recieved directy from Turner in 2010. You were OK with this so not an issue.
The 'cruicial' parts was one nut for the rear brake caliper. These were lost in transit as were on the frame at the time of posting. I offered immediatly to send you money to cover it. you wanted me to do it. I went to a bike tree who looked into it but by the time they got back to me you had got one made for you.
I had had no issues with the post.
The forks were bought off here (in good faith) to go with the frame to take to the alps. never ridden - as I had told you. You wanted the frame pronto so I sold it to you and built up my BFe. I contacted the person I bought off but that was evidently not going to result in getting it resolved. No point naming and shaming.
As for the family solicitor - I asked his advice after you repeatedly made long winded threats to go to the small claims court (as is your right).
I have sold to loads of people on here (including most of the naysayers) with no real problems - sending out stuff ahead of payment on many occassions to people on here who post regularly.
I have also met with and have good relationships with a lot of folk off here.
I agree that a feedback system is a great idea btw.
Err. Are you sure you meant to post under that account?
To clarify. just in case you are including me in the naysayers. I have absolutely no problems with you trading on here. As long as the ads clearly identify that you are a trader and you make some contribution. It is very apparent that you buy and sell bikes to fund your hobby and therefore you are unable to accurately describe the condition of some of the parts and frames.
Andy
so just to clarify.............
is freeform5spot/bustafajones/peter gratwick the same person???
Yep - that's pretty obvious isn't it? Although he hasn't used the busta... account for nine months, until today. Why would you have two accounts?
It doesn't lend a lot of gravitas to your legitimacy when you post your rebuttal to allegations against yourself from an alternative account. The only reason anyone would have an alternative account would be a nefarious one surely?
Why would you have two accounts?
to scam or troll??? 8)
It appears that quite a few people have 2 or more accounts - for various reasons !!
One of the watch fan sites (TZ-UK) has a forum called Heros and Villains. It's pretty self-explanatory-people go on and drop a simple message after a trade. There's a massive preponderance of 'hero' threads and the occasional 'villain' thread tends to stick out like a sore thumb. I'd imagine it's a serious deterrent to people trying to misuse the forum. They also have a system where you can't post in the classifieds until you have 50 posts elsewhere.
The TZ site appears to work pretty well but in fairness Eddie doesn't have anything close to the traffic on here.
so who votes for a feedback subforum??? (cos this is a democracy :D)
I really like the idea of a feedback thread, maybe its own section above next to the "for sale" and "wanted" sections.
It makes us police it ourselves and do it respectivly.
I very rarely sell/buy in here but when I do I'm more than happy to give as many resonable details as posible. Link to facebook, my home address etc.
I also think it makes a difference knowing how much imput a member has to a forum, For example myself, ton, AndyHilton and SC-XC on this thread all have the premier member symbol which shows our commitment, Would it be possible to have a "post count" like many other forums, even if just in the Profile section. I would be happier buying from a regular poster or a premier member.
I really don't see what is wrong with posting on the for sale thread the outcome of the transaction - both sides could do this.
Then when you buy something you search for the previous threads and you get to read the feedback
No new forum required, no programming, just a post needed on the for sale thread.
Good Idea TJ.
Timely of this thread to appear as I'm going through a bit of a nightmare at the moment.
Does anybody know "clive" off here?
I paid for some XTR cranks off here about 15 days ago and apart from a host of excuses, nothings appeared yet. They're literally the last thing needed to finish a bike off for the Mrs and I had this week off to take her out on it but it's a bit difficult without any cranks...
Click - [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/2010-fox-36-van-rc2-316-joplin-4-xtr-175-crank-arms ]Original sale thread[/url]
Any input from someone that knows him or dealt with him before would be great.
Well, he was on here 4hrs and 13 mins ago according to his profile.
I think a feedback thread is better than nothing. However if the mods can work with this and help improve the forum then that would be great.
Sort Jo Burt out while you're at it!
Welcome back Freeform5spot / bustafjones / Peter Gratwick...
To clarify the errors in your reply:
You demanded the 'quick transaction' (not me) as you were 'off to the Alps with your Cotic BFe and had to do it now'... hence your pressure to close the sale.
When it arrived, I raised with you my concern that the frame was a 2009 not a 2010. At no time did I accept that the frame was OK, or that paying for a 2009 frame which you sold as a "new 2010 warranty replacement" was OK.
You promised to send money for the brake caliper mounting bolt but you didn't, did you?
You promised to send a replacement bolt, but you also didn't do that, did you?
You did not state prior or during the sale that you had bought the forks off here and/or had never ridden them - if you recall, you sent me photos of the bike fully built up as you had been riding it, with those Lyriks on it.... so were you lying then, or are you lying now?
In any case - who and where you bought the forks from is irrelevant - you sold them via STW as being in perfect working order - then refused to take them back or pay for the repairs when TF Tuned diagnosed that they were in fact, utterly trashed.
As for the family solicitor - after your persistent refusal to even respond to my emails, calls and texts, what choice do I have? It afforded you the opportunity to put right your wrongs - which, par for the course, you ignored.
So, in summary:
- You lied about the age of the frame
- You lied about sending money to pay for the missing part, then lied again about obtaining a spare from your LBS
- You lied about the forks (TF Tuned, the experts, say they were obviously ****ed - but maybe you know better?)
- You lied about the broken seatpost (Specialized UK, the experts, said they were obviously ****ed - but maybe you know better?)
Still awaiting your recompense Peter... I guess the best test of whether you are genuine or not is to refund in full the £300 repair bill that I have had to foot.
Not doing so only compounds the situation.
I look forward to hearing from you.. and we'll post the outcome on here to expose whether you can be trusted or not for everyone on this Forum to see.
How about it?
It would take a little work, but based on a feedback system, how about a 3 strikes and you are banned for a month from selling, 3 more and banned for life? easy to block IP addresses.
I know digger personally and having seen the trouble he has had with the forks in question and missing parts and all the broken promises and chasing he has had, i would not touch the seller in question with a barge pole. the fact others have had similar experiences speaks volumes about the type of seller he is.
why is he not barred from selling on here?
easy to block IP addresses.
& just as easy to use another one
I've only been burnt once before- all other times things have been as described.
Tough one to regulate. I used to go by how long the person was registered on their profile.
Other than that i hope all others I have dealt with both selling and buying have been happy!
Lmao @ a private seller this week alone selling two titanium bikes, a carbon one plus a hardcore downhill rig
And also having the face to mention he even has a tame lawyer to help his business
WTF who else has their own lawyer?
He's trade and it's easy to see how much money he's made over the years
But the first rule of trade I'd look after your customer base isn't it?
who was it wrighty?
I'm guessing it's bustafa5spot
ton - Member
so just to clarify.............
is freeform5spot/bustafajones/peter gratwick the same person???
If I remember correctly Ton it should be :
Wheelsonfire/bustafjones/freeform5spot = Peter Gratwick
Yes,
freeform5spot = Peter Gratwick = bustafjones
He's a trader - and not a good one at that, see above.
He scammed me out of £300 over the Turner, Lyriks and seatpost I bought off him, as he has done to others on here.
I am sure, of course, that is a fine upstanding citizen and has reported his trading revenues to the relevant tax authority.... hmmm, who's betting on that then? 👿