[Closed] 7 Stanes Red Difficulty?

or any descents that would require a full face helmet at armour

Maybe not, but the drops on the Caddon Bank descent at Innerleithen are a fair size and you can go a long way off them if you were shifting.

/edit - they do have chicken lines.

you would be hard pushed to find someone that will support the Red at swinley, on either technicals or distance.

YMMV

you would be hard pushed to find someone that will support the Red at swinley, on either technicals or distance.

Yeh, it was just a frame of reference that I felt like a lot of us here know well! Well aware Swinley is an easy red. (Though not as easy as Thetford. That really is pushing the definition of Red Route)

They're not bad probably rockier than your used to. If your up at CD I'm over near kirroughtree if you wanted a ride.

They're fine.
Taken plenty of folks on their first MTB rides round them without incident.
Any bigger drops etc have shortcuts past them.

Though not as easy as Thetford. That really is pushing the definition of Red Route

You mean you don't rate The Beast, despite the HUGE warning signs? 😀

I can't comment on Swinley but the 7 stanes are "proper" reds in my experience with a level of technical difficulty, not just distance. I've always thought of them as being technically harder than most other trails I ride of the same grade (e.g. Whinlatter, Kielder, Dalby*) probably about the same as Hamsterley.

I've never ridden them in a full face or armour but I don't ride in that kit ever - I'm mmore likely to be seen in a road helmet and team lycra. Plenty do use armour - if you are used to it then consider it. I can't think of examples where anything can't be avoided or is super scary with consequences. Normally they are hilly so a full face would be hot on the climbs.

*There is one bit on Dalby red that has been eroded. It's a series of messy rocky steps. It's easily black grade. It's after a blind corner too so I wonder how other fare as it always raises my heart rate!

They're pretty chill, esp by today's bike-park standards, the stanes were laid down 20 years ago. The Dumfries and Galloway ones don't really have any big climbs, either, if you were riding with some less fit people. Glentress and Innerliethen are built on the side of more substantial hills.

My 11 year old rides the Red at GT with me all the time and he's not a particularly hard core little shredder. Anything with a notable drop has a chicken run. I've been riding the red for 15 years and never owned a FF helmet or pads, I've not died yet.

Only ridden GT and Inners but, I'd say on a par with Swinley. Swinley gets a bad rep as the features are mostly optional, but equally there's no compulsory jumps at GT. Inners has a few steps on the last descent that you'd have to really slam on the brakes to get down to a rolling speed.

The difference is they have a big hill, Swinley relies on your legs and skill to build and maintain speed. If you drag your brakes into one feature at Swinley of course the next few are also going to appear easy. Where as you have gravity on your side in Scotland.

I did 3 centres with my kids on the red grade trails. The harder features like the slab are graded black and have chicken lines. 26 inch wheel short travel hardtails and shorts were fine. Just walk for a bit if your not happy

However the grading just doesn't compare. We felt that the trails were similar to the black at Coed y brenin

Here is a video of us at Dalbeaittie

Slight hijack whilst Duncan is around:
Is it my imagination, or does Kirroughtree black get slippier every year? I remember we used to hoof round it full effort on singlespeed, but every annual wet (October) visit of late seems like an ice rink. Just a time of year thing or same in summer? Lack of footfall on the far side?

The D&G 7 stanes are the nearest centres to us, all the reds are great for a couple of hours fun riding. I haven't really ridden at trail centres in England so is not a personal comparison but my observation would be that when have taken partners family from England around the local 7 stanes they took a few goes to get used to the rocks on descents and drops. Not necessarily harder than what they are used to, just different and so felt exposed.
No massive climbs at any so is easier to keep together as a family group than at some trail centres too. Would add that we tried the blues to start with for kids but found that the amount of fire roads at Dalbeattie and Mabie meant they preferred the reds for more interest even though a bit longer and harder. Kirroughtree Blue is worth a couple of laps though.

So far its somewhere between Swinley Red and Coed-y-brenin Black.

My vote (though its been about 3 years for me, next month cancelled again, damn Covid) is for equivilent to a Welsh red, with a few more "black options" than in Wales, all either obviously labeled as such with a chicken run; or as the secondary/side route such that the first timer wouldn't accidently go down them.

Personally, open helmet and knee pads and gloves.
Unless you are a phenomanally fit pedaller, FF and armour is going to worsen the experience.

Awesome, thanks all. It seems as I thought - some tougher bits perhaps from a technical point of view but always chicken lines available, but really not that far off our comparison to Swinley.

So far its somewhere between Swinley Red and Coed-y-brenin Black.

I was over at Afan on Sunday with my 14 year old daughter. We rode Bluescar, among other things. On the way up from where we'd parked, she hesitated on one of the easier red sections near the river and pushed her bike around a couple of bits. There is nothing at Swinley that she has trouble with. I wouldn't even bother taking her on GT's red - it would be a long, frustrating walk.

Us keen riders in south Wales will often head to Scotland and stop at the 7 Stanes on the way to wherever we're headed. We'll often head to the Surrey Hills - we don't stop at Swinley on the way. That might give an idea of how well regarded Swinley is outside of the south east. Calling it a red is overstating it. (It's about as red as Haldon's red!)

You mean you don’t rate The Beast, despite the HUGE warning signs? 😀

Many years ago at Thetford - perhaps during a warm-up lap to the first Dusk til Dawn race or something, around about that sort of time anyway - a regular forum member commented that "The Beast" was at worst a slightly agitated squirrel. 😂

Its been a while but does the definition of a red not include obstacles are avoidable?

Or is it the black includes obstacles are unavoidable.

Maybe worth double checking which stanes, there is a bit of variation in style and terrain across them. Had assumed that if in CD would be going to Dalbeattie, Mabie, Kirroughtree and Ae (and possibly Drumlanrig although not sure if still felling ongoing). These are all a bit more chilled and undulating with features on the way than compared to Glentress which does have bigger, longer descents and would say is more like the south Wales trails centres and you might see people in armour or full face. Ae might be the one which straddles the type of riding.

Its been a while but does the definition of a red not include obstacles are avoidable?

Or is it the black includes obstacles are unavoidable.

Seems to be

Blue - hit it flat out, it's all rollers and tabletops.

Red - still rollable, but caution there's "roller doubles" so you've got to commit to riding it or rolling it, you can't half-arse it or you'll come up short and faceplant hard. This is IMO why people berate Swinley, they're riding the techy bits like a very slow blue rather than a fast Red. Drops have chicken lines.

Black - varies. Stainburn for example has that "I'm sure it looks bigger in real life" boulder drop (it's probably only 4ft, but probably a lot more to the actual realistic landing at any real speed, and it's on singletrack so there's no margin for landing squiffy). Whereas 90% of the GT black is just a longer, rougher, narrower track than the red, appart from I remember a couple of steep rocky trails Bitch, Matrix and Wormhole on the way back?

Best not show any Swinley riders Laggan, Balblair or Golspie 'Red'... 😱

Had assumed that if in CD would be going to Dalbeattie, Mabie, Kirroughtree and Ae

yeah these are the ones we're looking at, glad to hear they're a bit more chilled! We have a mixed ability group!

I’ve ridden Kirroughtree, Mabie, Αe Forest, Dalbeattie and Newcastleton a few times each and you don’t need a full face helmet for the reds. I’ve ridden them on hard tail and FS, though admittedly some of the trails have lumpy stoney obstacles that I find easier to clear on my FS.

@jonba

There is one bit on Dalby red that has been eroded. It’s a series of messy rocky steps. It’s easily black grade. It’s after a blind corner too so I wonder how other fare as it always raises my heart rate!

I know exactly where you mean and I would not be surprised if theres been some nasty accidents there. I can ride it fine however it does sneak up on you and is very out of character from the flowing easy trail that has preceded it for miles and miles! It requires some proper decisive line choice and is definitely not just a 'roll it' section!

GT red, lots of climbing. I'd say the trickiest sections are at the top of super g, few features of pie run and a few rooty bits on the final descent.

I found dalby was 10% interesting, 5% fun and 85% fitness miles.

Never ridden swinley, by the sounds of it I probably won't.

No bother, maybe chilled is not quite the right word I should have used, maybe more even effort which helps keep a mixed group together. A better way may be to say the D&G 7 stanes are more like an hour or two of technical riding round a forest compared to the kind of uphill slog/downhill blast/uphill/downhill rhythm which seems more common at other trail centres. Both are fun in their way but a different experience which is why when we have visitors ride with us here can take a couple of goes to get dialled in. Compared to other places the D&G trails have not been really updated since built so other than AE there are not many flowy jump type sections in the trails you see elsewhere, the difficulty is more from just consistently having smaller technical rocky sections all round.

<No bother, maybe chilled is not quite the right word I should have used, maybe more even effort which helps keep a mixed group together. A better way may be to say the D&G 7 stanes are more like an hour or two of technical riding round a forest compared to the kind of uphill slog/downhill blast/uphill/downhill rhythm which seems more common at other trail centres. Both are fun in their way but a different experience which is why when we have visitors ride with us here can take a couple of goes to get dialled in. Compared to other places the D&G trails have not been really updated since built so other than AE there are not many flowy jump type sections in the trails you see elsewhere, the difficulty is more from just consistently having smaller technical rocky sections all round.>

I'd say this sums it up nicely, Ae is much more like other trail centres I've been to, Mabie is very short but a reasonable if fairly easy red loop. Kirroughtree and Dalbeattie might feel like a bit of a slog if youre expecting a "normal" trail centre experience but they are a lot of fun if you see them in the light of tom7044's comments, I'd say you probably want a dropper post to enjoy them properly too. It's also worth remembering that the black at Kirroughtree is an extension to the red and not an alternative this can make it feel like a very long way especially if you have already ridden somewhere else earlier in the day.

Awesome, thanks. We're looking forward to it. I don't mind flowy/jumpy downhill bits but my partner will be very pleased to hear there aren't any!

Kirroughtree red has a couple of sections that if they were at GT would probably have had chicken runs built for them but at KT are mandatory- not so much because they're super hard but because they're quite different and have a fair amount of consequence if you screw up- one rock garden I remember with a slightly fiddly entry and a decent fall off to the right frinstance. But a lot of that is about the nature of the trails, GT is fast and generally everything is super approachable, KT has more slower stuff that a lot of people won't just want to charge into unseen and the pace of the trails is a little slower in general, so the whole trails work a little different and set different expectations.

Difficulty levels are always a funny thing, because what's hard for one person might be easier for another. A reasonably competent rider with a broad skillset will find all the 7 stanes reds easy enough, but a better rider with holes in their skillset might find some specific parts hard. (I've seen first hand someone basically unravel on Mabie's slightly skinnier, slightly more natural trails who I know is fast and capable at Glentress frinstance)

mick_r
Full Member

Is it my imagination, or does Kirroughtree black get slippier every year? I remember we used to hoof round it full effort on singlespeed, but every annual wet (October) visit of late seems like an ice rink. Just a time of year thing or same in summer? Lack of footfall on the far side?

Definitely seems like some of the rock sections are slippier now than they were when I first rode there, aye. That long damp rock section climb on the way up talnotry hill, and the little ridgy rock thing just after a hard right hander especially, they used to be pretty much just "balance and pedal" but now they're nadgery.

Both dalbeattie and kirroughtree have techie sections that make them harder. All rideable but a bit of skill needed.
I really like them both. But don't be taken in by the small hills there's plenty climb in both.

I'd say that a Red in Scotland is of a slightly different order than one in England, and probably of Wales for that matter. I've only done Kirroughtree and Dalbeattie, to compare with Cannock, Sherwood, Grizedale, Cwm Carn and Llandegla fwiw. And it was some time ago so i don't know if it has changed much.

It's more of a step up than some sort of quantum leap forward - all of it is rollable so nobody needs to be God-like, but you need to concentrate quite a lot.

I particularly liked Kirroughtree.

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