[Closed] 1x11 Upgrade sense check

Have you thought about using a front deraileur?

30T chain ring?

It will get you roughly half way between 32x36 and 32x42 and you won't notice any difference in the 11T

Hills are hard even in dinner plate gears- there isn't a magical fix 🙂

When I first tried 1x there weren't the wide range cassettes available so it was the XT cassette plus extender route. I ended up with 30T x 11-40T but with a bigger gap where the cog had been removed to allow for the extender. It just so happened that the gap was about the point where I swapped between the "off-road" lower gears and the "road" upper gears (if that makes sense).

If you are 1x then you can get away with a medium cage rear mech up to 42T - I've got this on my 1x11 and it works fine. So if you've a long cage mech then there's no need for a Goat Link or similar, you just have to check the B-screw.

I use a medium cage on the 1x10 setups on my fat bike (28T x 11-42T) and hardtail (32T x 11-40T) and have had no problems with any of them.

Most of my riding is in the Dales, Lakes and Scotland. One or two hills around there!

Sunrace 11-40 Cassette and wind in the B-tension screw?

You don't strictly speaking need a goatlink or other gubbins to go from 36t to 40t...

If you really don't want to "Stretch" an old mech the newer Deore M6000 is designed to accommodate an 11-42 Cassette...

Alternatively if you don't want to spend a fortune on it but have to go 1x11 there's always NX, it's a pretty well priced group compared with everything else and you can always upgrade stuff to GX later if you really want...

Hills are hard even in dinner plate gears- there isn’t a magical fix

A SRAM 10-50t cassette and a 30t front ring appears to solve this, albeit expensively.

My default position is that if you have a functioning 10sp drivetrain and want more range from a 1x system then the best bang-per-buck is a 10sp 11-42 cassette and if necessary, goatlink.  The Sunrace cassettes have really opened up the market.  Additionally, if you have an XT 11-36, a good old fashioned expander is a very cheap option although likely to need the goat link again, and may be a bit tweaky to set up.

Its a little different if you have another bike to move the 10sp kit to, but then if you want to go 1x11 the only sane approach is to figure out what gears you actually need, and buy appropriately. Shimano is certainly the cheap option but it is fundamentally compromised by the freehub - you really need to sacrifice climbing or speed with the Shimano option.  SRAM or Hope is the better option if you want range and a sensibly sized front ring, but both are more expensive. The SRAM GX (1150) cassette is practically bulletproof and lighter than XT (just).

Gear calculator  to make comparison easy.

So far as I’m aware, there is no officially supported iSpec A -B conversion, so you’re looking at something like a ProblemSolvers adaptor.

Thanks for all your replies so far. The main reason I'm contemplating 1x11 is the need to sort out my boy's bike at the same time, otherwise I'd probably just buy the Sunrace cassette and make it work (even if it needs a goatlink thing).

The other thing that has occurred to me is maybe I just need to get fitter so my legs cope with the climbs better, but I don't want to damage my knees in the process!

Or of course I could just put my front mech back on and stop trying to justify spending on new shiny stuff...

Too many choices!

‘MTFU’ is bad advice in my opinion. Wrecking your knees to prove some sort of manhood issue is plain daft.  Fitness is the ultimate answer, but there’s only one way to get there which is a lot of riding.

If you want to buy a technological answer, then in no particular order, I’d consider 11sp GX, Eagle or 2x10.

Slightly left field options are around improving traction so your climbing effort goes further. While a fatbike or plus size rear wheel is heavier and take more effort to overcome inertia from scratch, once spinning inertia is in your favour and you have a lot more traction.  I’d certainly suggest trying a fatbike if you can borrow a ride on one. It’s pretty easy to pick up a reasonably specced SH fatbike now for around £350 with isn’t much more than throwing Eagle at the bike, and you might be surprised what you can climb on one...

I did this twice. Sort of.

First went to 1x10 using a 32T oval up front and an 11-42 at the rear. I used a Sunrace cassette, XT long body, and a goat link. Ran without the goat link at first then upgraded to that for a slightly smoother shift and less B tension.

Then I decided to go 1x11, still with the 32T but with an 11-46 out back, Again I went sunrace, Another XT long body, and pretty sure a goat link (but maybe not). Move the 1x10 to my youngest sons bike to give him more range as it was very very limited.

About a week or so later I sold my bike and bought a new one with GX 1x11 on a 30T with 10-42. As my fitness is out I've stuck a 28T oval up front. I'll switch back to the 30T or maybe another oval in the summer. I feel like the 10 at the back lets me get away with a smaller up front without losing the top end.

The goat link is a benefit regardless of what cassette you use. It improves the chain wrap at the rear derailleur. It's main purpose was to allow you to use a medium cage on a larger cassette. But it helps with the long cage too. Whether you use Shimano or Sunrace cassettes is irrelevant.

If you've gone from a 26/38 double to a 32t single on the same 11-36 cassette, you've lost a fair chunk of easy gears in one go. I couldn't do that without walking a lot or destroying my knees.

Even 11-42 on that chainring leaves you without your easiest previous gear.

I'd either stick a 30t on and accept having to spin a bit harder on the flats, or if definately wanting 11 speed, stick an 11-46 on with the 32 and have pretty much the same gearing for climbing as before, perhaps working up to a 34t oval once you've got used to it and need to swap chains.

(Actually, looking at it, 34t (oval)x 46 will feel the same as 26 (round) x36)

http://ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS&KB=26,38&RZ=11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,36&UF=2240&TF=90&SL=2.6&UN=KMH&GR2=DERS&KB2=34&RZ2=11,13,15,18,21,24,28,32,36,40,46&UF2=2240

Shouldn't be a case of MTFU but it could be bike fit or technique. If your saddle's in the same position fore-aft, or even height wise, it was when you bought the bike then there's a good chance it's wrong for you.

I find that once the terrain gets beyond a certain gradient then I'm better off standing up at which point cadence is immaterial.

Need for Goatlink on 1x10 seems to vary a lot, I was  fairly annoyed when I had to buy it as the price seemed high for a piece of aluminium. However, it sorted all the issues I had with 10 speed SunRace cassettes as I had already tried 11speed derailleurs and other known tricks.

Now I have Shimano 11-speed stuff which works really well except daft 11-46 cassette which has way too big gaps on 2 biggest cogs.

Agree with whitestone above.  If your knees are hurting it's not your gearing that's wrong.  (says a 50yr old singlespeeder with lovely knees thank you)

Just having a quick break with a cup of tea and thinking about this some more...

Say I went with a Sunrace 11 speed cassette with 46-11, which mech/goatlink combo would work best? Medium or long cage?

Athleteshop have the Sunrace CSMX8 for £36 quid which is a bit less than the Shimano 42-11, but the goat link is nearly 30 quid on top.

Should have stuck with 3x10 🙂

I bought an 11-42 cassette and one of these from eBay;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/253494100587?chn=ps&var=552678989880&adgroupid=54831769347&rlsatarget=pla-412711523011&abcId=1133916&adtype=pla&merchantid=113268121&googleloc=9046373&device=m&campaignid=1057744940&crdt=0&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fi%25252F253494100587%25253Fchn%25253Dps%252526var%25253D552678989880%2526itemid%253D552678989880_253494100587%2526targetid%253D412711523011%2526device%253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9046373%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1057744940%2526adgroupid%253D54831769347%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-412711523011%2526abcId%253D1133916%2526merchantid%253D113268121%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQjw2pXXBRD5ARIsAIYoEbfffufvePRdBak3E5kG6tcDCk3QWPfAMWr5nne1xPsYcDTeUQ4zNCQaAhceEALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1514541174828%2526rvr_ts%253D11d000d21630add8bcc7dfa4ffffb5ec

Works fine.

Say I went with a Sunrace 11 speed cassette with 46-11, which mech/goatlink combo would work best? Medium or long cage?

Shimano M7000 or M8000 are designed to work better with wider range cassettes. I have 34t/11-46 and M7000 (medium cage), works fine with no goatlink. So I would be trying to get it to work without one before shelling out 30 quid.

Don't skimp on the chain length though. 114 links was only just enough on my Medium frame.

I understand the logic of going x11 as you can use the existing parts to upgrade your sons bike,  but the furrent fashion for 1x whatever is not a fix all solution for every rider on all terrain.

mountain bikes evolved from 5 or 6 gears to having 3xwhatever for a reason, because on hilly/mountainous terrain, you need really high and really low gears, without massive gaps between gears.

it might be fine for some people, maybe even most people, but when you actually go into proper mountains, they don’t have the range required for average people to maintain a comfortable spin.

not yet, at least, maybe when we get to 13/14 speed they will.

ive tried my surly as 1x10, and its fine for flattish terrain, i can see why some people prefer it tbh, but it’s no good for anything steep, or when loaded.

Stick a front mech and a little ring on the front, it works, many many cyclists have been doing it for decades.

#frontmechswork

I am running a 30T ring with an 11-36 cassette but with a 26" rear wheel (a 29er would be like running a 33T ring). I've left on my 24T granny ring  and manually drop the chain down before monster steep long climbs (yes, I get the front  derailleur bit but then I'd need a chain device). The cassette is XTR and has lasted forever and I am in a quandary about what to do when it wears out (no longer made); I really don't want to add half a pound of weight to the bike with a monster cassette, nor have a derailleur that hangs down to the wheel rim (use a Zee currently) with 11/12 speed setups. Yes I know the £200+ SRAM cassettes are pretty light.

Off topic op but I would also think about getting an Oval chain ring. It's helped my knees massively.

I went from a 42t expander to an 11-46 Sunrace cassette. My 10 speed derailleur with a RadR cage fitted was at it's limit. Bought an 11 speed GS rear mech and now it works great.

I also went down to a 30t oval chainring.

Think I'll keep this setup until my shifter breaks and then go 1x13 or whatever we'll be at then.

I'am a fan of 2 x 10 Deore....and:

Front 24 + 34 T

Rear 11 ... 42 T

Climbing: 24 / 42 = 0.57

Nearly the best ratio you can get. For the 11 ... 42 cassette in the back you need the M6000 Deore rear mech in "GS" version (think that's the version called).

Have this set up on all bikes now. Low cost. Rugged. Great.

Recently built a "PLUS" bike with boost BB. 2x Deore crank is only available with 26 T + 36 T. Spent a couple bucks more and rebuild it to 24 T + 36 T. Was absolutely the right decision!

When biking with my pals, uphill: my impression is that all the 1x11 bikers suffer on long uphill stretches.

And the 1x12 bikers have to service / adjust all the time their mech to keep it working smooth....?

Fashion is 1x right now. But I don't follow this fashion if it means suffering and more costs for me. 2x10 Deore in mountain goat set up is soooo good.

Off topic op but I would also think about getting an Oval chain ring. It’s helped my knees massively.

This ^ and for me switching to correct length crank arms... makes the difference between a week of hobbling about after a ride and feeling great.  (I'm also 50 and have bad joints anyway)

I use a 32T oval at the front and have had both 10 speed 12-40 (removed the 11 and stuck on an extender) and 11 speed 11-42.

For the OP ... I'm mainly using iSPEC B ... and also have to maintain the kids bikes and my other bike (which is currently 10 sp 11-36 but weighs almost nothing).

Despite you having tons of options ...

1) How much life is left in the -Spec A brake levers ?

You could spend money and then end up changing levers and levers alone are not that expensive....

2) Today's SLX is better than the 9 speed XT in almost every way... and as good as the last gen 780 stuff...

Don't know your kids age/hand size but SLX shifting is WAY better for small hands... (both the mech and shifters require less power) ... brakes wise its basically you need the hard to find bit to get the same functionality of reach adjustment with SLX...

3) My top speed before spinning out is faster with 11 speed... BUT I don't need/use the 42T much and in fact the 40T on the 10 speed was more useful.... If Im riding singletrack with the kid then the 32T on the front and 12T on the back is "fast enough"...  With 32T oval on the front the 42T doesn't make much odds... in fact it just means its harder to keep the front wheel down AND keep grip on the rear wheel...

If I'm honest switching to 11speed was a bit underwhelming ... at least for the price. It's not like it's not better but then everything else gets more expensive.  The XT 11 sp cassette has alloy 1-3 spider and these are quite soft... whereas I used to have a 40T expander that was £15-£20 to change... chains are more expensive, split links more expensive AND "single use" (more so) BUT ... it also means you benefit from lots of sale items.

When biking with my pals, uphill: my impression is that all the 1×11 bikers suffer on long uphill stretches.

I'm not that fit and long being 1500'-2000' of ascent (say Y Wal) I honestly don't feel the need with the oval 32T on the front... (and this is an AL frames T-130 ... not that light)

The thing is when I had a granny ring I did use it ... but I honestly found I was just using it because it was there... and not having the option I found that in fact it wasn't really helping it's just when you get a difficult spot you change and once you have you don't change back.  Its often just a few meters or perhaps a hundred meters .. and I find now that I just push through and then actually find it a benefit as I didn't change gear and don't then have the "do I try and change into back a slightly harder dilemma"  ...

Obviously we all have different styles and what works best for us but I found that if I'm happy to lose top end speed 1x10 or 1x11 works perfectly well until I run really big and draggy tyres...

Anyone wanna sell me some 10sp kit?

I'll admit to being a 1x fanboi but if 1x isn't right for you then it isn't right.

We are all different with various strengths/weaknesses and ride in areas with different requirements. I find I don't use the 11T or the 40/42T cogs very much on either bike so for me the supposed lack of range isn't an issue. I tend to use the 40/42T cog on the very long draggy climbs rather than the short steep ones, for the latter I'll be two or three cogs further up the block and standing. At the top end I'll only be using the 11T on long low angle declines, if the downhill is steep enough then I'll be going fast enough that I wouldn't be pedalling even on 3x11!

As @stevextc says if you are only using the extremes for a few tens of metres then you won't really miss them.

I've run out of gears just once (by which I mean it was rideable but I didn't have the energy to pedal) and that was on day four of last year's HT550 but I had been going for 17hrs that day which included crossing Fisherfield and the Postman's Path to Kinlochewe.

because on hilly/mountainous terrain, you need really high and really low gears

I'll dispute that.  It depends on the riding you do.  I almost never used top gear on 3x9.  When I did, I thought that going as fast as I could on fire-road descents was a good descent.  I used to seek out long fire-roads.  Most people don't do stuff like that any more.  I've got 1x9 on my XC bike with a 32x11 top gear and I've yet to use it off-road.  I use it on the spin home but I don't care about max speed on road descents.

You need low gears for sure and a reasonable middle range, for the typical modern style of riding, I'd say.  But for gravel/adventure riding where you might end up on lots of road, then yeah high gears can help.  Won't be going 1x on my adventure bike.