Look, my mountain bike is from 1996 and it’s spent most of its time either singlespeed or running a 9sp drivetrain (which is frankly way more gears than a mountain bike needs). But now I’m semi-retiring it as a commuter and replacing it with something new (though it still has 71/73 geometry and takes QR hubs, so it’s still proper… thank god for Surly otherwise I’d never be able to buy a bike big enough or old-school enough).
My problem is: I keep looking at 10 speed this, 11 speed that, 10/11 speed something else, 12 speed blah blah. I’ve got no idea what fits on what hub, which mech works with which shifter, why things that have model numbers that start with 4, 5 and 6 all seem to be called “Deore”; or what the hell Cues is, given that it seems to stretch from quite expensive down to near-BSO level.
Here are my criteria:
- I want 1x and I don’t want my chain falling off, so I guess that means a mech with a good clutch and a chainring with mahoosive teeth
- 46t will be plenty low enough for me because I’m proper beef and all that, but if 51 makes the other bits easier/cheaper then so be it
- also I don’t care how many gears I have, because I’m used to only having one; in fact fewer seems better
- I’d normally default to an M756 hub (135mm QR, 6-bolt, 8/9/10sp freehub) but I’m open to any Shimano hub and can use either 135 or 141mm. Must be Shimano, though, because I’m a dyed-in-the-wool cup and cone guy.
- I’m as tight as a duck’s arse
Building an 11sp setup looks pretty straightforward drivetrain-wise but I’ve failed to figure out what hub would work. When I Google for “Shimano 11 speed hub/freehub”, all I get is a few road hubs.
12 speed chainsets seem to be cheaper than 10 or 11 speed ones, but will a 12 speed ring be thinner than a 10 speed one and thus not so good for retention?
Basically I just want something that works and I’m happy to go with whatever works out cheapest without going below Deore level.
Please help a stupid technophobe 🙂 cheers!
A 12 speed chainset (specifically the chain ring will work with any number of gears). There is also an IXF crankset from ebay with a cheap narrow wide chain ring. I've seen it on umpteen bikes at jump parks and not seen any issues with them breaking. They are usually square taper bottom bracket, but only about £25 for the crankset.
Shimano 11 speed mtb or fewer gears all fit the same shimano hg freehub. It's only 12 speed that uses the newer microspline freehub. (except possible the new CUES system - but thats not really widely available yet so still pricey).
Deore 10 speed is arguably the least hassle to run. Lots of people have had success running 11 speed derailleur with 10 speed shifters. But I have also heard of issues.
Here - 173 Euro for SLX 1x11 with 11-46 cassette, all will fit a regular freehub.
https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-SLX-Upgrade-Kit-M7000-1x11-with-clamp-11-46-Teeth
Just need a narrow wide ring (and shorter bolts) for your existing crank, and all done
Was going to suggest the same thing as @honorablegeorge. 11sp SLX mech with a range extending 11sp cassette if you want (but probably don't need) and N/W chainring and Robert is your father's brother.
Hm, Advent X seems to be about £140 for the mech, shifter and cassette. I can find 10sp Shimano equivalents for half that price.
The option to use drop bar shifters is nice, though. I don’t know how feasible/affordable that is with Shimano.
11-46t range is more than enough for proper mountain biking, to be honest I find the newer 50+ sized casettes a bit OTT.
Just size your chainring to suit your climbs and cadence. 30 or 28t on a modern 29er is normal. No body needs to be pedalling a trail bike at over 25mph, so the huge ranges are a bit silly really IMO.
10 speed Deore with 11-46 cassette that Chain Reaction were selling for just over £17, £12 for Shifter would be my choice.
if you need new cranks then find some 3x 9 second hand Shimano that are 4 bolt 104bcd and you can get cheap snail chainrings 1x oval ones off eBay for < £10
Oh, and if 11sp cassettes fit on 8/9/10sp freehubs, does that mean that 141mm hubs exist purely to move the chain line out by 3mm?
10 speed Deore with 11-46 cassette that Chain Reaction were selling for just over £17, £12 for Shifter would be my choice.
Yup, that’s exactly what I was lining up, probably with an M5120 rear mech and a KMC chain. Which just leaves the chainset, but if 12sp ones are no worse at chain retention then that opens up options.
Edit: ah, the 12sp ones look like they want Boost hubs, is that right?
141mm is boost spacing, with QR end caps.
Yeah, but I mean is the point of Boost just to clear plus-sized tyres? For some reason I’d assumed it was (also?) to accommodate wider cassettes.
I’m still running old Shimano 3x9 non boost cranks on a 148 boost frame and don’t have any issues with chainstay clearance and chain line.
Yeah, but I mean is the point of Boost just to clear plus-sized tyres?
Around the time of moving from 135 to 142, 29ers (hard to believe now) weren't certain to be the next big thing, there needed to be a way to accommodate; bigger wheels, a mech (everything was still 2x, even 3x) a stronger BB junction, shorter chain stays and a place for suspension to be. All while keeping the chainline to about 49mm.
Others think it was all just marketing by Big Bike to make you buy a new rear hub. Take your pick.
but if 12sp ones are no worse at chain retention then that opens up options.
They aren't, but in comparison to 10sp and 11sp cheapness are harder on the wallet (mech and shifter)
How cheap? I've just gone 1x9 on an old Kona using a converted XT crank (shorter bolts and a nice lime green narrow-wide Race face ring), the old LX shifter, and a shorter Sora mech. Works wonderfully.
141mm is QR boost. If the surly will take either then use whichever you can get a cheaper hub for. As with 148x12 boost 141 improves spoke angle but more importantly allows more mud clearance (though on the same frame not so much).
Deore, 10 or 11 speed, standard HG freehub. Job done.
Microshift 8 speed Acolyte setup 👍
12-46 with a clutch mech. Works as well as Deore, etc. and costs about £70 all in for cassette, mech, shifter and chain.
Fits on a standard HG freehub, so no special requirements.
Been running it on one bike for nearly 2 years and it's been hassle free and bombproof.
That 10 speed Deore cassette from chain reaction, and keep an eye out for M786 XT shifters. I seem to have ended up with them on everything.
If you are near north Warwickshire I have an 11 speed XT shifter, SLX mech and 11-46T Sunrace MX8 cassette unused since 2019 (all good condition, around 1 year of riding)- feel free to make an offer by PM 🙂
Like others say an NW chainring is worthwhile. [I have a new 36T superstar that I hoped to graduate to for racing but it is XTR bolt spacing so assume it is no good for you.]
You probably don't need a clutch mech, but you probably do need a narrow-wide chainring.
I went 1x9 with M970, it worked fine, except the range wasn't enough for me.
Basically, all you have to do is bin the front mech, get a narrow-wide chainring and some spacers/longer bolts, bolt it on your 3x cranks in the right spot and off you go.
I also have some 1x bits in a box doing nothing. I think perhaps the exact same combo as twowheels.
Basically, all you have to do is bin the front mech, get a narrow-wide chainring and some spacers/longer bolts, bolt it on your 3x cranks in the right spot and off you go.
Was going to ask this. I suppose the other question is whether anyone bothers with those wee XC chainguides any more, and then any old suitably sized ring would do?
10 speed Deore with 11-46 cassette that Chain Reaction were selling for just over £17, £12 for Shifter would be my choice.
I'm idly considering going 11sp or 10sp (or even lower) on my HT once my finnicky PITA 12sp setup finally dies.
What mech would you use for 10sp Deore with 11-46T cassette? M6000 seems to do max sprocket of 42T in medium cage guise, which doesn't sound as though it'd like a 46T.
Basically, all you have to do is bin the front mech
I ran a 1x9 like this for years, not even a fancy narrow wide chainring. Still do, in fact, so make that decades. Very Rarely the chain comes off. YMMV.
I now have a full fledged 1x12 with narrow-wide, clutch and the chain never comes off. No guide necessary.
I ran a 1×9 like this for years, not even a fancy narrow wide chainring.
I first tried it with just the same middle ring on a short travel FS and the chain did come off a lot. Not when bouncing down rough trails, but when shifting especially more than one sprocket at a time. I initially used a neat chain guide because I had a bolt-on front mech mount that wasn't being used, but really it needed a NW chainring. Now it's on 11sp it has a clutch mech but it's off all the time.
I ran a 1×9 like this for years, not even a fancy narrow wide chainring. Still do, in fact, so make that decades. Very Rarely the chain comes off. YMMV.
Me too. Also fairly limited chain drops (I did run a NW chainring), although they did occur. The bigger issues for me with 1x9 in that fashion was that (1) with a non-clutch mech it's quite noisy if you're rattling over rough terrain; and (2) it's hard to get a decent range on an old-skool 9 speed cassette*.
My research so far suggests that the newer Microshift setups are worth a punt, albeit I haven't tried them. You can get a reasonable range cassette, and a clutch mech, at a fairly reasonable price, and they all seem to fit on a normal HG freehub.
* Caveat, I do ride the same terrain single-speed, but it's galling to get off and walk when you have actual gears.
@tomparkin I'd use a Deore M5100 11 speed rear mech which has a clutch and can cope with up to 51t, so you could run a Microshift Advent X 48t cassette if you want more than 46t.
10 speed Deore with 11-46 cassette that Chain Reaction were selling for just over £17, £12 for Shifter would be my choice
It's a penny under a tenner now.
The Low spec 10s band on trigger shifter is 12 quid.
Only expensive part new is the rear mech - I'm using a 12s deore that I already had knocking about.
What's the bloody bike!?! :o)
Why don't you just take the front mech off and get on with it?
Why don’t you just take the front mech off and get on with it?
Who says he has a front mech to take off and not just a frame to build into a new bike?
Anyway, Deore 10spd 11/46, HG freehub.
After my clutch mech went wrong at an enduro race, the chain went very floppy but still didn't fall off. So presumably its the chain ring that does the chain retention bit and the mech just keeps the noise down.
I’m idly considering going 11sp or 10sp (or even lower) on my HT once my finnicky PITA 12sp setup finally dies.
You'll just end up with a finnicky PITA 10sp or 11sp replacing it.
I've run 12sp for years and thousands of hard MTB miles, it just works - you're either doing something 'wrong' or there's something not right/square etc.
It’s a penny under a tenner now.
Yeah, I bought two 😀
FWIW I went for that cassette, the £12 shifter, an M5120 mech, MT511 32t chainset, and a blingy gold KMC chain. About £125 for that lot. Bargin.
Plus good old M756 hubs FTW. (Will probably build a dynamo front wheel as well, otherwise it’ll be my only bike without one and that would be weird.)
Why don’t you just take the front mech off and get on with it?
New frameset deserves new kit 🙂 I’ve been running a half-arsed 1x9 on my Lava Dome for a while.
What’s the bloody bike!?! :o)
Bridge Club! 🙂