need some spacers for my super deluxe shock and after a quick Google tf have them for 16 quid! They probably cost 1p each to make(!)
short of knowing a shop owner and getting them for trade , theres not much I can do is there?
They probably cost 1p each to make(!)
That they do, but it's part of a pricing structure that returns a profit on investment, allows cash for R&D, covers tooling and setup costs, shipping, holding and distribution this end and the overall price of everything in the line, also covers somebody knocking them off on ebay once they work out how to copy them
Hate to say it again lol but what Mikewsmith said
sort of
i mean the r and d can't be much they are similar to fox how they clip around the air shaft so its not a radicaly new idea and tooling? they'll only be injection molded it's not like they're buying new forging equipment
distribution and stuff should be absorbed really as it's just part of the process
I can see why people would do knock off ones
I might be being tight but just seems excessive for what it is
if only I knew someone with a 3D printer
1p each to make?.
Seriously?.
distribution and stuff should be absorbed really as it’s just part of the process
PMSL 🙂 I like that one
I might be being tight but just seems excessive for what it is
As I said the price of one item doesn't always reflect it's costs just it's part in a pricing structure
if you noted the exclamation in brackets then you would have known I was exaggerating but it can't be far off
Oh, and here's me thinking they were exclamation marks, and all this time they've been exaggeration marks!!!!!!!!!!! 😊
http://www.emold.net/view/Calculate.jsp?source=csg
Off you go then 😉
Some other numbers to sort, tax, import duty, etc, raw materials, then labour this side to pack them, yes it's a high margin item but its part of a bigger model keeping OEM and retail prices lower etc.
Or simply put there is a spreadsheet somewhere
in brackets they mean sarcasm , thought I wouldn't have to explain that as you seem to have it locked down 😂
liamvc96, what do you do for a living?
Whatever it is, you're massively overpaid. I could buy it for 1p, I reckon.
@mikewsmith you make a good point (bugger) I'll just have to suck it up
Mike, if you're going to post my website, at least ask me first.
Lol I didn't think it was the official branch just a knock off supplier 🙂
I thought the singletrack thing to do would be cut your own out of an old chopping board?
BTW What level are you up to Flashy??
Pretty sure you'll find those on a 3D printing model site that you can get printed anywhere for not a lot.
There is a point I hate having an addictive strategic brain....
Simply put OP everything is expensive and everyone is trying to fleece you for as much as possible.
For a reason I can't fathom some people view trying to get a better deal for yourself as a kind of job stealing sacrilege and preach the religion of bending over and taking what you're given, at the price you're told, whilst chanting your undying appreciation and thanks.
Personally I weigh up the options and choose what I consider to be the best price/quality/value.
Nope just pointing out what a business model. Is. Consumer behaviour is one factor in it but companies will still look to make a profit. That could move to the main sale or another part of the business.if people stop buying spares from them.
A bit of a convenient simplification psycorps and I don't see anyone saying it's wrong to get a fair price. It's easy to frame this as you vs faceless megacorp but as mikenewsmith has pointed out some of the costs involved in something like this are enabling people just to make a living out of being part of a supply chain.
Replacement [url= https://shop.gopro.com/EMEA/accessories-2/replacement-door-hero5-session/AMIOD-001.html ]GoPro Session door[/url] anyone?
It’s easy to frame this as you vs faceless megacorp but as mikenewsmith has pointed out some of the costs involved in something like this are enabling people just to make a living out of being part of a supply chain
It's not just that though is it - as MWS suggested, it's a deliberate overall structure/plan. Making those things in the volumes (SWIDT?? 😉 ) that SRAM requires will mean that purchase/production cost is very low. They have an existing distribution chain and these things are tiny, light and neither intricate nor fragile by comparison to their other stuff. They choose to overprice them relatively in order to keep intital prices nice and low for the groupsets (in their model it seems particularly for OEM). Seen the list price for 2 bolts and a few washers to mount their brakes ? Same game - and same risk that somebody else can sell it much cheaper
It looks like someone else has had the same thought and made their own. €4.30, sadly shipping is almost a tenner!
sadly shipping is almost a tenner!
But distribution should be so cheap!
I’m with the OP.
I also don’t buy the pricing structure argument (R&D costs etc). All cost for a shock should be spread over the cost off ALL parts equally. In this case it seems they choose to load a large portion of non-manufacturing costs onto three bits of plastic. Imagine the outcry if someone chose to charge that sort of markup on headset spacers.
I needed a smaller one on mine, so took a hacksaw to it.
Finished it, Mike.
Fox ones were £30 odd when I looked! Still seem to be £23 even.on eBay so at least you are getting less ripped off....
All cost for a shock should be spread over the cost off ALL parts equally
So which successful business do you run?
I'm always confused that a small block of metal is relatively cheap to buy, but if you were to make it into a bike frame, suddenly it would be exponentially more expensive. I'm guessing that's because the increase in size means it costs more to send through the post.
It's a similar thing with bread and flour. Flour is way cheaper than bread per gramme, but bread has a much higher volume. So, for the sake of argument, if your bread is made in the far east, it would cost lots to ship it - it would probably need its own seat on a plane to avoid being crushed and to keep it fresh - whereas you could simply carry flour in a hidden compartment at the bottom of your suitcase.
I blame CAPITALISATION.
So which successful business do you run?
Poundland?
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thanks for that. My child will have to look after herself for the rest of the day
This Fox one is available to download:
Modify that file and then take it to a local 3dprinter? Or order it online as a batch with some other people on here?
It’s not just that though is it – as MWS suggested, it’s a deliberate overall structure/plan.
No it's not just that, I didn't say it was, but part of that plan has to allow distributors, retailers for example to make it worthwhile stocking the part.
BadlyWiredDog - you could be onto something with these shipping costs... How about dehydrating bikes into a powder then all punters have to do is add a bit of water and bingo! Instabike!
How it is that you can buy an Enduro fork seals kit for the same price as these bits of plastic? From what I understand seals use much more exotic materials and have to be manufactured to tight tolerances.
Pricing structure was mentioned above. Can someone explain how this type of pricing structure can be justified using a hypothetical example? Educate us non-business types 🙂
Modify that file and then take it to a local 3dprinter? Or order it online as a batch with some other people on here?
I'd say to prove a point the OP should invest in the 3d printing and set up a business supplying these things to us 😉 then he can determine how much his time is worth and reflect that in the pricing 🙂 How many jiffy bags can you pack and post per hour?
Pricing structure was mentioned above. Can someone explain how this type of pricing structure can be justified using a hypothetical example? Educate us non-business types
Because people will pay it.
Each part of the business will have costs and profit margins, they may make £10 on the fork & shock they sell to whoever put your bike together. They then make money back in aftermarket stuff.
If you want it available in the UK at next day delivery then somebody has to hold stock, that takes space, time and employees - just saying they already exist to sell the forks doesn't count - each item in there has to cover it's costs. you might not notice the costs in handling a fork but you do in a small item as it takes about the same amount of time to pick it and post it.
all this time a supplier is sat on an inventory of stock that they have paid for or at least financed.
As part of a greater pricing model you can tweak what you make on each component to fit what the market will bear and what will return you the best overall profit.
When you look at the fox side of things this is the cost of distribution
http://www.silverfish-uk.com/news.aspx?id=282
That needs to be made back from service, parts, spares etc.
Can you not just bung a wodge of silicone (or whatever) grease in there?
Pricing structure was mentioned above. Can someone explain how this type of pricing structure can be justified using a hypothetical example? Educate us non-business types
It's as simple as you imagine... they don't need to justify if people buy them.
To some extent this means being able to sell the "base" lock-in at a lower price than alternatives. That applies to forks or printers or cardboard boxes.
I can buy cardboard boxes for example... or I can go and buy a whole load of printers.
The printers come free (can just be thrown away) and you might still be in profit.
Buying printer sized boxes (e.g, for packing) costs £2-3 each... a set of ink costs whatever ... you get a power cable and probably a USB cable would cost you a couple of quid and a CD or something that can be used as a coaster... add it all up at consumer prices and the printer is free or somewhere around free.
If the buyer uses the cheap £20 printer then it will be made to waste as much ink as possible and replacement ink will be eye waveringly expensive... but that's what the consumers want... cheap and shiny buy-in...
This involves a lot of cost... the manufacturer has to build in all the electronics to prevent you using someone else's ink...
It's a fairly crap business model by some ways... but it's driven by the consumer that wants a cheap and shiny new printer for £20-£30...
Back in the day (don't know if this is still current) the heavy duty HP office lasers had a engineer setting you needed social codes to access. By typing in a number the engineer could set the number of prints the machine would make before displaying an "error-call engineer" message. (In the 90's I got loaned an engineers book with the codes etc....)
This drives a spiral... import duty is based on value.... someone has to stick the items costing pence to make in an envelope and attach/print postage etc. but essentially the price is what people want to pay.
If anyone has one, I'll happily measure it, model it and 3D print it at much less than 16 quid.
@thepodge cheers! I think there's already one in there I'll look tonight when I get home
OK, so the answer seems to be because they can. That and the fact that people who repair and modify their own suspension are effectively subsidising people who get rid of them once they need work done.
I think people are entitled to get at least a little bit annoyed about that, especially with companies claim that they are environmentally friendly despite encouraging people to buy new rather than repair.
distribution and stuff should be absorbed really as it’s just part of the process
This is about on par with the guy who claims that as a fully tooled up and staffed bike shop already exists whether he goes there or not; he shouldn't pay more than £7.50 an hour for labour.
Yes £16 is steep for 3 bits of plastic, however how much does the shock itself cost, £400+?? £16 spent getting the right setup for your weight and riding style is small change in the grand scheme of mountain bike expediture.
PS. As has already been said, you're lucky, in that Fox ones a £25 and if you have the shock I do you can only use 1 in the set.
I was fortunate in that having put a wanted ad here on STW, someone who had the one spacer I needed going spare kindly sold me it for a couple of quid.
I've made 1.6 billion paperclips 🙁
I’ve made 1.6 billion paperclips 🙁
LOL. It's frying my brain (more my eyes) and I've only made 13 million.
I’ve made 1.6 billion paperclip
I reached the point where I'd used up all the available resources on Earth and sent space probes out seeking further resources... !!
Something like 5 octillion paperclips.
Insanely addictive.
can you save it or do you have to leave it running
It came back on when I reclicked the link... But I left it going while I left for work this morning
Most people can spot a racket when they see it!
Legitimate business practice it may be, but I'm not going to enthuse and big up businesses that engineer and carve out monopoly parts supply, with the intention of controlling prices and suppliers. Re-brand generic products at a higher mark-up and in smaller quantities, try and hide ingredients of simple lubricants so you buy theirs. Use propitiatory sized seals, fixings, components, connectors and software because they can! Hobble/intentionally disable products and features and/or do not fix known faults because they make loads from parts that people just keep on buying. Cost reduce products over time and cause reliability issues with something that was previously satisfactory.
I'm calling it what it is, snide **** baggery and they can get teh ****.
Paperclips: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
All the universe's resources now converted to paperclips!
Is this the place for stupidly priced items?
How about -
£15! For a bolt!
£17! For a plastic mount (and bolt)!
Yeah.
Explaining how a company has got to a consumer price for a product only provides an explanation, not a justification.
Just because everyone in the supply chain needs their X% margin doesn't mean the consumer should cover it.
How many jiffy bags can you pack and post per hour?
This. I often admire the work ethic of ebay sellers who will sell me a bag of guitar picks or bolts or whatever, posted for a couple of quid - how many do they have to sell, pack and post per day to make a living when you factor in cost price, jiffy bags etc.?
I'd want at least £17 to post you a plastic spacer, even if I got it for free 🙂
Just because everyone in the supply chain needs their X% margin doesn’t mean the consumer should cover it.
Who else should cover it? The cost has to go somewhere so if that product was sold at cost (or even a loss) another product would have to increase.
how many do they have to sell, pack and post per day to make a living when you factor in cost price, jiffy bags etc.?
Easy peasy, just take a look what Babz Media were allegedly doing.
OK, so the answer seems to be because they can. That and the fact that people who repair and modify their own suspension are effectively subsidising people who get rid of them once they need work done.
I think people are entitled to get at least a little bit annoyed about that, especially with companies claim that they are environmentally friendly despite encouraging people to buy new rather than repair.
The question is how much would you pay and everyone else for a 3rdP product?
Lets say you could get some ACME not Genuine RS for £5 ???
Then ACME can start up a business ...
However if RS then say that anyone using non genuine spacers voids warranty then this is a risk for both ACME and buyers
Is this the place for stupidly priced items?
Yep some prices are just crazy.... but equally what about £40 for a T-shirt.???
Paperclips: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
All the universe’s resources now converted to paperclips!
ignore the volume. just to annoy the OP i'm currently selling 30,000 paperclips a second at $2 each. i'm aiming for $15 a piece...
Cycle parts/accessories pricing structure is mental
For £17 you can buy a pair of shimano SPD pedals with cleats, mounting hardware, lots of machined parts, precision moving parts, bearings, springs, cromo axles etc. And performnce in use is almost exactly the same as the most expensive SPD pedals you can buy.
For £10 you can buy one set of shimano cleats and mounting hardware on their own meaning you're effectively getting those pedals for £7!
or as the OP says. you can buy 3 pieces of plastic that can't cost anymore than kids kinder egg/luckybag toys do to manufacture to sort out a very expensive suspension unit. Ideally these bands/tokens should be supplied with the unit/bike/frame (many manufacturers do)
It is what it is though. so if you buy expensive bikes you just have to suck it up really. Or choose a progressive enough frame that you won't need to fit plastic things inside the shock for support.
If anyone has one, I’ll happily measure it, model it and 3D print it at much less than 16 quid.
Really? How much is the true cost?
- plastic raw material for printer £1 ? (For the three parts, especially if you need a trial run etc)
- Jiffy bag. 50p
- stamps. £1
- time on printer
- power for printer
- time to create model
- time to set up print job, load material, unload and pack
- time to take item to post box
- cost of receiving the payment - 2.5%
Sure it can be done for less than £16 but a lot less - not if you value your time.
Poly - Really? How much is the true cost?
– plastic raw material for printer. FREE, I have loads of offcuts that need using up
– Jiffy bag. FREE, I keep and reuse all my incoming bags
– stamps. £1.64, if I can get it as a large letter
– time on printer. FREE, I can do other things while its running
– power for printer. FREE, the consumption is imeasureable
– time to create model. FREE, my job is modeling, doing it for the love / challenge not the money
– time to set up print job, load material, unload and pack. FREE, Its a 30 second job
– time to take item to post box. FREE, I pass many post boxes on my walk home
– cost of receiving the payment. FREE, I's ask for paypal gift
So yeah, its easily doable for under £16, you just have to not be a corporate whore and work it into an existing schedule.
So yeah, its easily doable for under £16, you just have to not be a corporate whore and work it into an existing schedule.
Good luck in your new business venture I'd like 4,000 please, can I have them next week, £5 postage work OK for the lot?
So it's only that price if you ignore the costs involved and don't value your time.
Cycle parts/accessories pricing structure is mental
Yep.... check out brakes as well...
Decent caliper + lever + hose + pads + oil/DOT
A friend just broke a lever and damaged a hose and it was cheaper to just but a new brake with spare caliper and pads (as the damaged hose was the other brake to lever that meant ordering the US/continental setup)
Then the cost of a rubber bleed bung + screw for pads etc. ... almost as cheap to buy a new caliper when you consider it comes with spare pads.
Not a business venture though is it dickwad, it's me offering to do someone a favour.
ah ok then so the corporate whore stuff was just a joke then....