So, the initial build was ok but it needed some changes if I was going to take it to Morzine for a week. The 69degree head angle was fine with the Fox Talas 32s but the 32s were not enough for some of the brake bump rutted tracks out there and so I swapped them out for some Talas 36s. At full stretch they are 160mm, which is only 10mm more than the 32s but enough to slacken the bike a good degree when the rear pivot was set to it’s maximum travel position. The bars came off too and some slightly narrower (680mm) Crank Brothers Iodine bars went on. That and a BlackJack Sniper DH 20mm front wheel were about the extent of my Alpine changes.
Now I’d been riding it for a good couple of months in its shorter travel, more UK centric mode (not that 150mm of Fox 32 travel can really be claimed to be short) and so this was a good opportunity to gauge the differences between what I intended to be a good Alpine build and it’s more usual UK technical trail style setup.
Now even with the Boost Valve armed new Fox shock, climbing when in the full travel position (Remember this frame has four rear shock settings) is just about ok at best. There’s so much travel to be had in this mode that the excellent Fox shock just struggles to tame the rear end. Moving the rear shock position down a notch makes all the difference though and after some experimenting in all four positions the 3rd longest position was the one I opted for around our steep local trails. It climbed just fine with manageable levels of bob and in this position, especially with a long fork at the front, I never felt I’d run out of travel, even on bigger hits.
In Morzine though, I switched to the longest travel position and to hell with the seasick climbing feeling. Actually, I didn’t climb at all to be honest. That’s what lift passes are for.
Whether I ran this Nicolai in long or slightly more climb friendly shorter mode the one aspect of the ride that came through every time was the stiffness of the rear end. Those square sectioned stays may look rather too industrial to some (I rather like the mix of round and square) but the tracking of the rear end in even the sketchiest of rocky, rear wheel twanging moments was just excellent. Even when the braking bumps and rocks were taking the big Fox 36 forks beyond their limits at the front I never had to worry about where the rear was going – it was right there, tracking the steering of the front of the bike like a hardtail. This is no mean feat when you consider there are a fistful of pivots in there on this Four Bar bike. It certainly made a change from last year’s Yeti 575 that although a great bike it’s not for the features of the slightly twangy rear end that I miss it.
I narrowed the bars from 720mm to 680mm just prior to Morzine. The 720mm were just too wide for me but in retrospect 680 were a little too narrow for the Alps. Perfect for home though.
Now I’m back I’ve yet to put the Fox 32s back on, which are a much more appropriate fork for my general trail riding. But I had such a good time taking this bike as close to it’s limits as I could out in the Alps that I’ve kept the 36’s on there for now. The rear shock position will be dropping a notch but I think we’ll see how it gets on with its burlier front end for a while.
Now, on to the XT 10speed groupset I’ve been running…
A slightly odd choice of making it burly enough for a week of Alpine riding and yet having not only a triple chainset but 10speed at the back too. And as you would expect it was perhaps not the best choice. I lost my chain a lot. You really do need a chain device if you want to spend a week of lift assisted trail riding without frequent stops to put your chain back on – or worse. Three days in to the week and my chain not only came off but jammed itself down between the pivot and the granny ring. I had to remove the crank arm to release it. Ironically the gap it jammed down was exactly the right width to really chew up a 10 speed chain. A thicker 9 speed chain wouldn’t of fit and probably not jammed. I had a mangled link and had to repair the chain and run it shorter. Not a problem really since I had no plans to go near the big ring and a slightly shorter chain would help it to stay on the rings a little better. However, before the week was out I’d snapped it twice more – each in different places. Whether this was a result of the slightly twisted damage that I had to wrestle back in to alignment on the first mangle I will have to reserve judgement on. Needless to say though, a week of Alpine lift assisted riding is not the best place for a ten speed setup without a chain device.
Mark
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Interesting comments on the movement of the suspension under pedaling. I can echo those comments for the Helius AM but find that a medium tune RP23 BV set to the third Pro-Pedal position does a very good job of controling the travel, even in the 150mm and 160mm settings.
BTW a 160mm Fox 36 is quite a bit taller than a 150mm Fox 32; the difference is something like 25mm, not 10mm, hence why you’ve knocked the head angle back by a whole degree (as well as invalidate the warranty ;o)
Apart from that Mark, how do you like ‘owning’ a Nicolai? Does it make you feel like it’s a bike you just want to keep forever even if it at some point in the future you know it might get overshadowed by a newer, slimmer more lithe model?
I ran my AM with 150mm Fox 32s for a few months and while the high speed handling was fine, dropping the front end by over an inche made the front end want to tuck in on steep turns far too readily.
So if the chain was 0.22mm wider it wouldn’t have got stuck in the gap…?
geetee, I’m loving it to be honest! The crown is indeed a factor to consider between the two forks but the rear pivot setting also has an influence too. I like the fact I can tune the rear with it’s four positions depending on what and where I want to ride it.
Teapot, The chain was VERY tightly wedged in.. I’m just saying it may not have done so if it was 9 speed, although the minutia of details of an individual frame and the chain you use on it is not really the issue. I’m more concerned with the snapping and it’s what I’ll be paying attention too over the next few weeks.
Mark – I was under the impression that the rear travel setting had no affect on static geometry. You’d notice some difference if you’re sag settings were always a consistent percentage, as the bike would sit lower to the ground with more travel. But the holes for the shock mounting are on a constant radius that the shock moves through (or something) so that geometry is unaffected.
Having said that the ride characteristic is quite different from one extreme to the other, at least it is on the AM.
peeeerty
mark – any increased noticeable pedal strike ?
my helius AM is PLAGUED by it….. 🙁
wouldn’t of fit
Tut tut…
“At full stretch they are 160mm, which is only 10mm more than the 32s”
I thought it was more like 20mm?
“my chain not only came off but jammed itself down between the pivot and the granny ring. I had to remove the crank arm to release ”
My stumpjumper did that, especially with lots of backpedalling into switchbacks (with a chain that had already dropped off of the middle ring previously). A washer behind the suspension pivot nut sorted it
Is the pic with the saddle/seatpost in ‘proper’ pedalling position? The bars look a hell of a lot higher than the (ungainly) saddle?
The 32s that came off are 150mm
160-150 = 10
all in theory of course.. different fork.. different purpose, different sag etc..
The saddle is just a standard WTB Lazer. We reckon it looks ‘funny’ because it’s perched on a telescopic seatpost, which is makes the top section of the seatpost look unusually thin and that plays tricks with your brain and makes the saddle look huge! 🙂
Update..
The super stiff rear end became un stiff this weekend as the bolt through the main pivot above the BB snapped. I’m about to pull it all apart and see what happened.
Mark – I think the comment on the fork is that the axle to crown measurement between the 150mm 32 and the 160mm 36 is around 20mm different. There is more overlap between the stanchions and the lowers on the 36s, which is one of the reasons they are considerably stiffer.
It will be interesting to see what Nicolai say about the bolt. Maybe leave out the part where you say you’ve been running it in the Alps with a 160mm fork eh ;o)
Lecht…
No pedal strikes above or below the number I’ve experienced on other bikes. Nothing to report on that score really.
geetee..
I imagined that since we’d already covered the extra length crown issue that we were talking about the difference in travel. Since it’s only the latest version of the 32 that comes in 150mm travel (now available in both 140mm and 150mm travel) I imagined there was confusion that maybe we were talking about the difference in travel of the older 32s that only came in 140mm 🙂
Either way… It’s longer with a 160mm fork on for sure.. That’s a truism 🙂
Cranks about to come off to see what’s happened with the pivot.. more later
mark – any chance you can give an indicative weight on the 32’s PLEASE ?
OK.. had it apart and….
Nothing snapped! Yay! Loose bearing retention bolt is all.. All nipped up tight and all is well 🙂
Some measurement data for you fresh from the ruler…
With Fox 36 Talas in full 160mm mode.
Head angle at maximum travel position = 67.7 degrees
head angle at minimum travel position = 68.0 degrees
Fork measurements
36’s in full travel mode. Crown to axle centre = 54.3mm
32’s in full travel mode (Talas FIT RLC) = 52.4mm
mark – weights !
Still seems very steep for an AC.
My CC has a 68 deg HA with 130mm Rev’s on it.
TLR you can get the weights for the forks off of the Fox website. A 32 Float is around 1.7kg.
Oh and the Nicolais will always need their bearings tightening up after a few weeks of use. They are designed to ‘bed in’.
Maybe it’s the camera angle but that looks steep, short and high, a bit old school maybe?
nicolai although great looking bikes have horrible handling.
i was the first to ride their new multi link protoype gbox bike although awesome the damn thing tucked in constantly..
on measuring the HA was 68.5 deg on a 170mm travel bike!!
In the photo above the forks were set at the 120mm mark so it looks steeper.
Nasher – Interesting generalisation based on riding a proto. I have 3 Nicolais and have owned 4 in total (DH and trail full suss and hardtail). I think the handling is excellent actually, and the angles spot on. Nicolai have also been pretty good at listening to rider feedback and modifying geometry and angles of there new models when they’re first out (e.g. AFR).
Very good, quality, adaptable bikes in my opinion.
“160-150 = 10”
but as you say:
“different fork”
I thought* Fox 36’s @ 160mm were 545mm axle-crown and Fox 32 QR15’s @ 150mm were 525mm** axle-crown?
*I can’t remember where I have those from, but its what I thought they were
“makes the saddle look huge”
that particular WTB saddle looks huge whatever post its on IMO#
“36′s in full travel mode. Crown to axle centre = 54.3mm
32′s in full travel mode (Talas FIT RLC) = 52.4mm”
Are you sure you don’t mean cm? or mm but without the decimal point?
“In the photo above the forks were set at the 120mm mark ”
So the bars are even higher (relative to the saddle?) when the fork is fully extended?
James.. yes.. my mistake. Move the decimal point to the right one 🙂
thanks Mark, keep em coming i love this sort of stuff
+1 for the “looks well steep”…
When is part 3 coming?!
Any more reviews on this
Any update?? Are you guys REALLY going long term on it?
Any more pedal strikes?? Lol…