Thanks hora. Waiting on a call from my plumber cos c/h needs sorting out. Wonder if I can sell my 2 month old towel warmer on Classifieds!!

That £100 would include the additional copper as well IMO.

This lot came this morning, my job for the week. Lining out the utility room.

joao3v16 – Member
Our front room was always cold so i replaced it with a double radiator

I was thinking of this for my house.

The 2 upstairs bedrooms have very old single radiators with no convection fins, so are not heating the rooms anywhere near as effectively as a single or double convector radiator.

One of these bedrooms is 4.5 square meters with 2.5m ceilings, so I’m pretty sure an old 300mm x 1500(?)mm radiator is pretty useless for a room this size.

The living room also has an old single radiator.

We moved into a house in Feb that had very old radiators. They would get hot to touch, but the rooms weren’t heating up; they didn’t seem to convect very well.

My OH’s Dad is a retired plumber so he replaced most of the radiators with new ones with convectors on them & new TRVs. The difference is substantial. The rooms heat up a lot quicker.

Only problem we have had is that we now have some pipes that are clanging for whatever reason. See my recent threads for a run down of this. Still looking into the cause.

Stumpy, theres an air bladder(sp?) inside your combi boiler – is it pressurised/boiler been checked? Sounds like a pressure issue and the noise can reverberate down the pipping? (note the ?’s- i.e. guessing).

This lot came this morning, my job for the week. Lining out the utility room.

If you need any advice drop me an email: nealglover@gmail.com

I do this every day and have a few short cuts etc that may be of help.
And also things to be aware of that are easy to do, but hard to fix later if you miss them out.

hora – Member
Stumpy, theres an air bladder(sp?) inside your combi boiler – is it pressurised/boiler been checked? Sounds like a pressure issue and the noise can reverberate down the pipping? (note the ?’s- i.e. guessing).

Nice thought hora, but it’s not a combi boiler……

We’ve closed the lockshields on the 2 radiators that seem to be giving us the problem, until I find the time to rip the flooring up….that’ll be after Christmas now, I reckon.

Final longshot (the other thing I’d think of):

1. Furring/build up within copper pipe of radiator fillings/sediment.
or
2. the pipes have nothing between each pipe to prevent movement/banging against each other when heated.

After 30 Yrs in the Central heating game I am asked this question more now than ever.
The simple answer is..You dont have your heating on for long enough, or your room thermostat isn’t set high enough.
With the rising fuel costs we are now paying attention to the heating control settings we used to ignore only a few years ago.

I was recently called to a house, the owner said she is always cold. I took one look at the timeclock and saw the heating had a 1.5 hr on period in the morning and 2.5 hrs in the evening. The house was poorly insulated admittedly but, If the house takes 1 Hr to heat-up it takes the roughly the same to loose the heat, that means its unlikely to be warm enough for more than a few hrs a day in cold weather. The room thermostat probably never reaches the set-point.
BURNING £5 notes in the middle of the lounge would have been a more cost effective way.
Extreme I know but you get the idea.
If you want to be warm, ‘its Gona Cost Ya’.

^^^^

I suspect/hope it is only 2. The system seems well looked after, so hopefully won’t be furred up.
I tried securing the pipes under a section of floorboard that I removed in one of the rooms that the noise seems worse in. This made no difference and putting a hand on one of the pipes, you can feel the pipe vibrate with each bang, like someone is tapping it with a spanner further along.
Next job is to take up floor in our bedroom once Christmas is out of the way…..

Anyway – didn’t mean to hijack…….

I heard something similar but that was on the hot/cold water pipes and a simple opening of the outside spigot and every tap in the house whilst turning off the mains cleared all the air etc out of the system- cured.

One thing- its nothing to do with re-balancing all the rads?

I’m pretty sure there’s no air in the system. It’s been bled multiple times and Spooky B329 on here suggested a good way to purge air from radiators, which didn’t really sort it.

I don’t think it is a balance problem, and would be annoyed if it is, as this is one thing that I haven’t done. I keep forgetting to borrow a thermocouple from work to balance the rads.
I could do that this weekend, but don’t think it will solve it….probably should do it to rule it out….

why no cavity insulation? , we have a really poor build 1930’s house and were told we could not have cavity wall insulation but discovered we could have beads but not rockwool . We now have the beads and the house has warmend up no end.

Balancing – air out of the system. Also cold water feed blocking (due to furring of pipes)?

You could check this with a system flush – however flush’es aren’t cheap are they? 🙁

Edit- You can hire the machines from HSS.

(Remember I’m an internet Plumbing engineer so take the above as guessing) 😉

crankboy – I’ve completed the link that monksie gave me. I’ll mention that to them as I was told by the estate agent when I bought the house that the cavity wall had been done but I thought ‘bollocks’ because most pre-1930’s brick houses don’t have cavities (or enough space). Bead- never heard of that but will follow that one up.

loft *hatch* insulated? the air around mine (in the landing) was noticably cooler, so I stuck a load of the insulating board stuff to the back of the wooden panel, then put draft excluder round the outside. much better

I thought that/mine was abit excessive- its got some stuffed(?) plastic material all around the top part of the hatch. The insulation looks alot deeper than 300mm and on the joist next to the hatch is a A4 piece of conformaty etc.

The kitchen cost the elderly couple over 7k who had the house before us. They had been diddled so I must admit when I saw how well the loft had been done I thought at least one job done properly…

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/In-your-home/Roofs-floors-walls-and-windows/Cavity-wall-insulation

Some pretty good advice on the Energy Saving Trust website for all insulation issues etc.

Cougar – a few possible problems there by the sounds of it. Existing damp problem that hasn’t been dried out properly that is being topped up by your everyday activities. The gas fire produces moisture, as does cooking, showering and just living. You have any ventilation blocked up so there is nowhere for air to get in or damp air to get out. Non-ventilated double glazing doesn’t help either. Does your bathroom have an extractor fan?

You can get through wall vents that are adjustable and have baffles in them so there is less of a direct tunnel problem – these help.
I’d be concerned about the carbon monoxide build up with a gas fire and no ventilation – do you have a detector fitted?

Poorly performing heating isn’t helping either. Couple that with what specialknees said regarding run time and add poor ventilation and you have a recipe for dampness. Do you ever get the place aired out and opened up through the week?

Quite a few areas that are adding up to generate the problems you have. It would probably be worth borrowing a dehumidifier if you can and running it for a week or so to see how much you get in it. Then you can stop and see whether you have dried out the old damp and solved the problem or other factors are playing a part. A process of elimination rather than anything else will be cheaper in the long run (based on an internet diagnosis!).

Does your bathroom have an extractor fan?

No, because the shower’s a relatively new (like, last year) addition. I’ve had the bathroom window open a crack but, well, winter is a-comin’.

You can get through wall vents that are adjustable and have baffles in them so there is less of a direct tunnel problem – these help.

That’s what the back room needs, I reckon. I was shocked when they did it; I had a friend house-sit whilst they came to service the fire. Got a phone call, “they said you needed a vent brick.” Got home to find a hole in my wall maybe 9″ square with an bloody gale blowing through it; sitting in my living room was like standing on Preston railway station.

I’d be concerned about the carbon monoxide build up with a gas fire and no ventilation – do you have a detector fitted?

I got those button things for a while, cos I was concerned too. Nothing ever showed up on them.

Do you ever get the place aired out and opened up through the week?

Occasionally, but not as often as I should.

Is it worth me digging into the wall to get the front vent cleared out? That’s been blocked for as long as I can remember.

Thanks for the ideas.

Have we done the

a) Heating on 4am – 7.30am & 4pm – 10pm and therefore heating the rads from cold each time

or

b) Heating on 24hrs?

Which is more effective, and whats the differential? For example, If I left my heating on permanently until May and there only £20 in it vs the times I mentioned above, I may as well, but if we are talking a differential of £200 its a different story.

Any ideas of whats best?

Any ideas of whats best?

I would have thought that location, levels of insulation and design of house would all come into play, so not an easy answer to give.

The hotter the house the more heat it loses so the longer the house is unheated and colder the better. It’s a fallacy that letting a house go cold and then heating it up again requires more energy than maintaining a constant temperature.

There seem to be two very different approaches on this thread. The long-term economical and ecological solution of insulating, and the hotter water in more radiators solution which is cheaper than insulating this years and stuff the environment.

No heating on now, the only heating yesterday was cooking the evening meal on the wood burner and it’s 18°C (9°C and raining outside).

Cougar – you need to look at the house as a whole and manage your ventilation. A bathroom is supposed to have 15 litres per second ventilation – this usually means an extractor fan. You’ll be far more comfortable and get rid of the moisture quicker than opening a window.
You have windows closed and plenty of moisture being generated with nowhere for it to go. Blocking up the ventilation where you have the gas fire is illegal. I would have a look at the houses around you and see how they are dealing with ventilation. Hit-and-miss vents reduce draughts but allow venting so they might help. Get the CH running properly as that is a drier heat than the gas fire as well. Figures vary for gas fires, but cooking on gas produces about 1 pint of water per hour.
Getting the whole house opened up and heated will also help. If you have hot and cold in the same house you set things up for condensation. Most of it is down to human behaviour and a few basics. Regular ventilation, heat with CH rather than gas fires and get an extractor installed in the bathroom.

Whilst we are on about fans and ventilation – my 4 year old house has an extractor fan in the bathroom that goes straight out of the wall and there’s no baffle or flap of any kind on it. I was thinking of looking for something that would close the gap when not in use, but now I’m worried about ventilation…

Ventilation is important while you are using it. If the fan gets most of the moisture out while it runs, there isn’t too much to get rid of once it stops. You should have something like those self closing louvres on the outside. Holes in walls are uncontrolled, ventilation is controlled. You’ll be reet.

There are some interesting points on this thread. Our house (moved in fairly recently) is flipping cold in winter, despite the boiler hammering away like a crazed maniac. I want to put in a wood burner but can’t just yet as the roof is in poor shape and needs sorting first.

Over the summer I did all the calculations for radiator output, but they seemed close (if just a little under) and cost was high to buy new ones to replace. The front room is the worst, like a freezer, but it’s 1) North facing 2) Large windows and 3) Over a void, so no great surprise. We put in some serious insulation in the roof of the void, but it seems to have made precious little difference – still freezing and very disappointed with that project. Thick curtains are on the list but need to save up first. Loads of insulation already in the roof cavities – it’s like a wild jungle of orange fibres in there. Putting in a second skin (it was just a single brick thickness) on the bedroom wall though has however made a huge difference in there – very pleased with that. It got rid of a lot of damp too.

I think the biggest thing that I have taken out of this thread is to have the heating running a bit more – trying to save cash, it’s only on a couple of hours in the evening and 45 mins in the morning. Perhaps a little too Scrooge-like. Off to re-set the clock.

Any ideas of whats best?

I tried this 2 winters ago and was gobsmacked at how much my bills were by having the house constantly heated with it constantly topping up.

I know it depends on the efficiency of the house etc but in a nutshell I wont be doing it again.

ononeorange – if it is single skin throughout, insulating the void below your cold front room is a small part of the problem. You’ll be fighting that single skin wall forever if you don’t do something else like externally clad the house!

There was something on the radio the other day regarding am/pm heat on and 24 hour continuous. Peeps in white coats decided it was more expensive to keep heating on for 24 hours continuous despite what has been said before.

There was something on the radio the other day regarding am/pm heat on and 24 hour continuous. Peeps in white coats decided it was more expensive to keep heating on for 24 hours continuous despite what has been said before.

In between posts I have been scouring the ‘net. Its seems the scientific opinion depends on many things (insulation, how “warm” your property is generally, whether your front door is direct or you have a porch etc etc).

Then it clicked. Our house is occupied every day except Monday and Tuesday. we also have a 2 nearly 3 year old in the house and my wife is black carribean and insists on household temperature to match her originating climate.

On top of that we have an old crappy potterton boiler which is repaired once a year without fail (usually pump replacement) and no thermostat – we usually turn the at-the-boiler water heat control switch down at night. We can’t rely on the boiler not “tripping” when we need it which of course currently we do.

Odds on then, that I may as well just stick the heating on full time and be done with it and accept my fate with the gas bills.

Tootall – I didn’t make it clear – just the one wall was singleskin which we dealt with this year – I was really stunned at the dioffverence it made. Cheers

a) Heating on 4am – 7.30am & 4pm – 10pm and therefore heating the rads from cold each time
or
b) Heating on 24hrs?

Or c) – a new thermostat that allows you to set high and low, rather than on and off.

We switched from a mechanical on/off thermostat to a high/low one and it’s improved the comfort and speed to reheat the house – not sure about cost as too many other variables (rising prices, new radiators, more insulation, new boiler, log burner fitted).

The old mechanical one was slow to react to changes leading to overshoot (too hot, too cold) and freezing at night when fully off.

The new ‘stat switches between low and high so the house never gets truly cold and warms up again quicker. Fully programmable, including ‘low’ and ‘high’ temperatures, one button ‘frost protect’ for summer or holidays and a simple click to toggle from low to high, if you are in on a weekday, for example.

Made the house much more comfortable.

p.s. about £50 and simple to fit – just 2 wires.

Combating heat loss through the fabric of the building is the important issue.

I have a relative new build semi detached house (2003). The heating was one for an hour yesterday because I felt sorry for the dogs when heading out for a 4hr ride and I had been going in and out the back. Again this morning the Wife put the heating on for an hour and the house is comfortable. We sleep with the heating off overnight and the window slightly open for ventilation

The rooms over the part internal garage are cold. Builders and robust detailing? (i.e put what you got in there and close it) and my new extension can be a bit nippy. (90% of the external walls are bifold glazed doors – 2.3m high).

Had our house’s cavity insulated over summer – and think it’s made a huge difference. Seems to keep the house cooler during hot days, and have definitely noticed the house is staying warmer, longer during these cold nights.

The heating was one for an hour yesterday because I felt sorry for the dogs when heading out for a 4hr ride and I had been going in and out the back.

You’re nuts, dogs are well tough. If they’re indoors they’re already winning.

You’re nuts, dogs are well tough. If they’re indoors they’re already winning.

Agree. If you drive over the tops towards Hebden you’ll pass a farm house on the roadside with a big doghut. Throughout winter/ice etc you’ll see a collie tied up there.

Snoring away in the background! Boxer dogs so short hair.

Buy them a snazzy set of threads!

Update- our house already has cavity wall insulation- the holes in the walls were pointed out to me.

So it underfloorboards ‘stuff next!

Insulated render. Anyone an expert in this ?

Ex council late 60’s semi here. Built from shuttered concrete, then pebble dashed outside. Have about 10″ of loft insulation, & to be honest it didnt seem to make any difference to the 4″ that was up there before. I put in a timed thermostat that defaults at about 16c when the house is empty. (Its in the hall so always a few c cooler). House warms up quicker because its not allowed to go fully cold. And if the heating is off it will go very cold, quickly.

Local council insulated some properties of the same construction, with insulated render. Basically stuck polystyrene all over & rendered over it. Reports from folk I know in the said houses are positive, saying its made a big difference. So I had a quote from the same firm…£8k.!!!

Planning to move in few years so not spending lots. Wife & I are keen that when we move it will be to a modern house, with good insulation.

I have found a way of warming our 100+ yr old house.

We have cranked the stove up to max 😈