[Closed] What VW is offering diesel owners in the USA.

Substantial compensation to the owners? Really? How substantially have they been inconvenienced by this, other than the time taken to take their car in?

I'm not surprised, you won't get anything like that in the UK though.

It will be a fixed car and a free service or hand your car back early on the PCP and some money in to the deposit for a different one.

Maybe we are simply not litigious enough in the UK?

As above, this is happening in America, the good ol' USA does love a compensation lawsuit!

"How substantially have they been inconvenienced by this, other than the time taken to take their car in?"

i'd have thought that resale value/ease of resale would be an issue and compensation should cover this

^ And the lessees?

i'd have thought that resale value/ease of resale would be an issue

Really? Is the car going to be worse after this?

OP yes thanks for that. Yes US owners are being properly compensated and promptly while in Europe where Germany holds sway at the EU - didly F squat. The letter UK owners have says pretty much zero other than your car is affected. Frankly its outrageous

@molgrips major major pita, what if younare vw owner and wanted to sell your car, where are resale values ? Huge sense of betrayal having bought a car you thought was environmentally sensitive but in fact the opposite is true. Worried about cost of repairs and inconvenience of not having your car.

[i]i'd have thought that resale value/ease of resale would be an issue and compensation should cover this [/i]

They're already offering to buy them back 'at no cost', so I'm guessing they'll just offer what was paid to make it easy.

Plus of course in the USA it is quite common to fine companies/folk many times more than the cost, to make sure they don't think of doing it again.

ubstantial compensation to the owners? Really? How substantially have they been inconvenienced by this, other than the time taken to take their car in?

In the us there's a tendency for compensation or damages to be set at levels designed to be punitive - to punish the guilty party- rather than restorative to the 'victim'.

our American friends do like a good class action lawsuit!

jambalaya - Member

OP yes thanks for that. Yes US owners are being properly compensated and promptly while in Europe where Germany holds sway at the EU - didly F squat. The letter UK owners have says pretty much zero other than your car is affected. Frankly its outrageous

@molgrips major major pita, what if younare vw owner and wanted to sell your car, where are resale values ? Huge sense of betrayal having bought a car you thought was environmentally sensitive but in fact the opposite is true. Worried about cost of repairs and inconvenience of not having your car.

Can't say I agree, I've got an effected car - the sum total of the effect on it's resale value? somewhere between sod, and **** all.

Inconvenience of not having your car? No more than for a service (which they're proposing to do at the same time) you turn up at the dealer, sign a bit of paper and you can either have a lift to work or a Polo/Ibiza/Fabia for the day, for free.

Cost of repairs? Repairs to what? The proposed work is a remap and you don't have to have it done, no one will come around your house and dag your down the dealer at gunpoint? "Ah, but what about the resale value if you don't have it done?" Again, somewhere between sod, and **** all - because if they care, they can simply have the work completed whenever they like, for free.

Finally, the environmental argument, yes it's important - but personally when I chose mine I didn't have a clue about nitrogen emissions, I didn't even see it listed - in Europe we tend to look for the Co2 and that's unaffected by this. I'm personally dubious about these labs tests, the parameters are known and all manufacturers tailor the way their cars work to 'optimise' them for the tests - I wouldn't bet the house on VAG cars being any better or worse than any other mainstream car in the real world.

I personally am not feeling any pain from it, they've been very bad and been caught and will no doubt suffer all manor of fines that will go into the public purse, but I don't see any real hardship to owners that would require some 'compo'.

Frankly its outrageous

Really? Storm in a tea cup. If the fix the car for free back to original spec then what is the problem.?

having bought a car you thought was environmentally sensitive but in fact the opposite is true

"environmentally sensitive car" is a bit of an oxy-moron!

The fact that all cars that meet the original spec emit 5-10x more when driven on a road, means there is no such thing as a Green diesel.

P-Jay - you miss his point entirely. This isn't about convenience, cost or environmental damage. It's those damn krauts in the EU!

OP yes thanks for that. Yes US owners are being properly compensated and promptly while in Europe where Germany holds sway at the EU - didly F squat. The letter UK owners have says pretty much zero other than your car is affected. Frankly its outrageous

That's because the UK government and courts haven't taken any moves yet, that's UK not EU.

Really? Storm in a tea cup. If the fix the car for free back to original spec then what is the problem.?

@Drac and why is that do you think ? Its not just the UK either, all of Europe

It's also because we have not (yet) become a litigation obsessed country where everybody sues everybody else over anything.

And long may that continue.

Proof that ligitagtion threat gets results for the consumer ? Why not just offer exactlybthe same to Europe ? My answer its far too expensive

Proof that ligitagtion threat gets results for the consumer

Litigation just pushes up the cost of doing business which gets passed on to the customer via higher prices and onto the staff via lower wages! The only winners are the lawyers.

But you knew that.

[i]Substantial compensation to the owners? Really? How substantially have they been inconvenienced by this, other than the time taken to take their car in?[/i]

Yeah, as jambalaya says - it's all about "I bought this environmentally friendly car mmkay" Whereas, in reality VW TRICKED US into buying it!!

Never occurred to me that there would be any court case/compensation and I'm bloody glad we're not litigious enough over here.
Or will there soon be "Have I got an affected VW.com?" ads on TV...

@Drac and why is that do you think ? Its not just the UK either, all of Europe

Well because we don't have such litigation hungry culture, simple really.

I personally am not feeling any pain from it

You are if you were even slightly swayed by the published Fuel consuption figures.

Which were fictional.

The deep irony of all this is that for diesels, those VW 2 litre engines are massively less polluting than most of the worn-out bus and truck diesels that belch out filthy black smoke all over the developing world.

Yes US owners are being properly compensated and promptly while in Europe where Germany holds sway at the EU - didly F squat.

You are aware that the US has completely different environmental legislation to the EU aren't you? Which would demand a different response?

ScottChegg - Member

I personally am not feeling any pain from it

You are if you were even slightly swayed by the published Fuel consuption figures.

Which were fictional.

I take them all with a pinch of salt, but mine isn't that bad - it's quoted at 56mpg and if I cruise as a constant 70 it'll do 52-53 with roof bars on, it seems to get to 60 pretty easily without them. If I'm REALLY bored and what to try my hand as 'hyper miling' if I sit behind a lorry with the cruise at 56mph it'll do 80mpg, but it takes ages to get anywhere.

I am. They cheated here too (see BBC Panorama documentary) but vested interests mean its all quietly quietly. You really should see the nothing letter UK owners have got.

Its not just fuel economy its emissions and to really meet the emissions the performance and fuel economy are potentially significantly affected.

You really should see the nothing letter UK owners have got.

I got one to say mine isn't effected. Is this a coverup by the Germans?

jambalaya - Member

I am. They cheated here too (see BBC Panorama documentary) but vested interests mean its all quietly quietly. You really should see the nothing letter UK owners have got.

Its not just fuel economy its emissions and to really meet the emissions the performance and fuel economy are potentially significantly affected.

Cheated where? With the economy figures? They're independently tested, and I don't think anyone thinks they're real-world, it more of a yard stick to compare cars.

I've seen the letter, as I have a VAG diesel.

Which version have you got?

Anyone who claims to have bought a TDI thinking it was an environmentally sensitive option is a liar. Plan and simple.
Tdi's were purchased because of their claimed (and actual) mpg being well in excess of any USA petrol option and their driving experience unavailable in any other usa available vehicle.

Sadly (many) class action lawsuits bring money hungry Americans out of the woodwork.
Take the recent Nutella suit where claimants said they didn't realise the said chocolate spread wasn't the best choice to slap on their kids toast. Cost Nutella $3m, participants got $4 per jar (max $20)

Which version have you got?

He didn't get one I reckon.

Its not just fuel economy its emissions and to really meet the emissions the performance and fuel economy are potentially significantly affected.

Part of the delay is they're making sure this isn't the case for performance. There's a letter about that.

Great kivk ass you yanks company,s like VAG and banks etc need to learn there are consequences and I hope to see a suite or two go to jail.

etc need to learn there are consequences

Normally the state (taxpayers) bail them out and the CEOs award themselves a pay rise.

jambalaya - Member

@molgrips major major pita, what if younare vw owner and wanted to sell your car, where are resale values ? Huge sense of betrayal having bought [u]a car you thought was environmentally sensitive[/u] but in fact the opposite is true.

Utter tripe. Anyone who bought A diesel car because they thought it was environmentally sensitive should be prevented from having any responsibility for ANYTHING or ANYONE at [u]ANY[/u] time in the future.

People bought diesel cars because they cost less to tax (thanks to government idiots) and provide marginally better fuel economy. Your motives were economic, [u][b]not[/b][/u] altruistic.

You really should see the nothing letter UK owners have got.

I did. I got one. It said they'll swap the naughty software for non naughty software.

If you really want to get all worked up all about it then there are plenty of ambulance-chasing legal firms who'll take your details (it's the new PPI don't you know). See the spondered adds on Google if you search for emissions + Audi/VW etc.

Anyway, I sold my 2.0TDI Audi a couple of weeks ago. Didn't seem to affect the value I got for it. Guy who bought it couldn't care less about it. Either he'll get the software updated at no cost to him or he won't bother. OH THE HUMANITY!!!

[i]You really should see the nothing letter UK owners have got.[/i]

If anyone really needs to experience such a thrill here's mine (I added the sombreros to protect my car's innocence)

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[URL= http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/dezb99/th_4C462F85-80F5-4FF2-870A-C4926964E477_zpsygq36dsa.jp g" target="_blank">http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/dezb99/th_4C462F85-80F5-4FF2-870A-C4926964E477_zpsygq36dsa.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

[i]Anyone who claims to have bought a TDI thinking it was an environmentally sensitive option is a liar. [/i]

I bought mine cos a mate of my brother's was selling it, took my old car in trade and it had a big boot. 🙂

People bought diesel cars because they cost less to tax (thanks to government idiots) and provide marginally better fuel economy.

I bought my first diesel because it had quite a bit better fuel economy (about a third more) *because* I thought that was better for the environment. And it might still be in some cases. Actually quite difficult to evaluate. I only ever used it for long trips across the countryside where there is not generally an air quality problem.

P-Jay - Member

I take them all with a pinch of salt, but mine isn't that bad - it's quoted at 56mpg and if I cruise as a constant 70 it'll do 52-53 with roof bars on, it seems to get to 60 pretty easily without them. If I'm REALLY bored and what to try my hand as 'hyper miling' if I sit behind a lorry with the cruise at 56mph it'll do 80mpg, but it takes ages to get anywhere.

I'd be interested to know what car that is (and what roof bars are hitting your fuel economy by that much)!

I am currently using my Wife's Ibiza FR TDi with the 140BHP 2 litre diesel engine.
Urban mpg is supposedly 48mpg.
Combined mpg is supposedly 61mpg.
Extra Urban mpg is supposedly 72mpg.

My journey is mainly a-road and in my old car (Ibiza with the 130bhp 1.9PD engine) I could easily beat the claimed combined mpg figure of 56.5mpg. That car was an 03 plate, so I'd expect a car that is 9 years newer to perform at least as well, if not significantly better.

But, I struggle to get 55mpg out of it; 52-53 is more common. My old Ibiza was a disappointment if I got less than 58mpg.

Admittedly the computer tells massive lies to make you think that you are getting decent mpg, but the reality is somewhat different. Last tank was a claimed 62.5mpg from the display, but actually measured out at 54.3mpg which was one of the best results I've had.
Pretty cak for a small car and over 10% away from the claimed mpg values.

I'm interested how VAG think they can sort out this engine. They claim they hope to do a software update (as per DezB's image) but without affecting engine output, fuel economy or performance.....which begs the question, if they can get the car to meet the targets without affecting any of those parameters, why didn't they just do that in the first place?

Unless they can prove to me that it isn't going to affect performance or economy I am not going to have it done.

Admittedly the computer tells massive lies

Mine doesn't. Pretty accurate. 2006 Passat.

Supposed 56mpg extra urban, I can get that on a mixed run and 63mpg on the M4, driving at 70 on cruise control.

They've improved the test results by tuning the car to do well in them (not the same as the cheat device). All manufacturers have. So if you don't drive within that part of the fuel map, you'll be further from the quoted figures. Upshot is that newer cars are far more sensitive to driving than the old ones were.

so I'd expect a car that is 9 years newer to perform at least as well

Based on.. the test results.. improvements have generally been pretty minor, especially in VW diesels (because the older ones had PD which made them much better 15 years ago than the competition). It's the test results which made us think we could get 70mpg so we expect big improvements.

molgrips - Member

Really? Is the car going to be worse after this?

You kind of have to assume so; if not, why would they have done the emissions defeat at all?

The UK letter suggests that VW think they can fix the issue without affecting output, economy or performance. And the obvious response is, if so, why didn't you do that in the first place?

stumpy01 -

I'd be interested to know what car that is (and what roof bars are hitting your fuel economy by that much)!

I am currently using my Wife's Ibiza FR TDi with the 140BHP 2 litre diesel engine.
Urban mpg is supposedly 48mpg.
Combined mpg is supposedly 61mpg.
Extra Urban mpg is supposedly 72mpg.

My journey is mainly a-road and in my old car (Ibiza with the 130bhp 1.9PD engine) I could easily beat the claimed combined mpg figure of 56.5mpg. That car was an 03 plate, so I'd expect a car that is 9 years newer to perform at least as well, if not significantly better.

But, I struggle to get 55mpg out of it; 52-53 is more common. My old Ibiza was a disappointment if I got less than 58mpg.

Admittedly the computer tells massive lies to make you think that you are getting decent mpg, but the reality is somewhat different. Last tank was a claimed 62.5mpg from the display, but actually measured out at 54.3mpg which was one of the best results I've had.
Pretty cak for a small car and over 10% away from the claimed mpg values.

I'm interested how VAG think they can sort out this engine. They claim they hope to do a software update (as per DezB's image) but without affecting engine output, fuel economy or performance.....which begs the question, if they can get the car to meet the targets without affecting any of those parameters, why didn't they just do that in the first place?

Unless they can prove to me that it isn't going to affect performance or economy I am not going to have it done.

It's an Exeo with the 2.0 CR TDi (143).

Roof bars are Thule and I've got one of each type of Thule cycle carrier on it. It looks about as aero as a milk float, but I've not nowhere to store them off the car.

[img] [/img]

You're not alone in wondering how VAG are going to achieve lower emissions without loss of performance or economy without retro fitting AdBlue or something.

I suspect they'll do the same as all the other manufacturers and simply cut the fueling in the part of the rev range they test at - there are some expensive cars being sold today with massive holes in the rev range to do this and it was one thing that sold the Exeo to me. I won't be the first in the queue to get it 'fixed',

molgrips - Member

Mine doesn't. Pretty accurate. 2006 Passat.

No. And neither did the one one in my old Ibiza. Well, it always over-read but by around 2-3% compared to tank to tank measurements.
What's annoying is that if they could do it when my old Ibiza came out, what have they done to the estimation method in the new Ibiza that is so shit. Why not just keep the same technique?
I reckon it's set to over-read by a certain amount. The range estimator is similarly useless - it's quite consistent down to around 65 miles & then drops like a stone. But the one in my old Ibiza was pretty good.
And, yes I know that different journies will give different results etc. but I generally do the same 80 mile commute at the same time day in, day out and it still can't estimate correctly.

P-Jay - Member

It's an Exeo with the 2.0 CR TDi (143).

That's interesting....because it's the same engine but in a larger, heavier car.
I know it's not my driving, as I've always managed to get decent mpg out of cars. I don't think I could do much more to improve the economy of the current car.
I think it might have been an ex-demo car so wonder if it had a hard life before we got it and engine wasn't treated very kindly from new??

I think it might have been an ex-demo car so wonder if it had a hard life before we got it and engine wasn't treated very kindly from new??

I doubt that would have any effect. Modern engines are built so well and all computer controlled that it's very hard to damage then unless you deliberately run them out of oil.

Well, it always over-read but by around 2-3% compared to tank to tank measurements.

So it would show 51.5 instead of 50? Seems pretty good to me.

It could easily have a fault, stumpy.