hmm you’re right the highline is all 150mm and the patriot was 2005, I think by now they’ll be in the battered & snappy range, so I’ll cross both them off my list.

jedi – i agree reach is important, however, if I can’t get a saddle high enough to pedal along properly (I like being able to get it out the way, but I’m not doing a fireroad with my knees by my chin) then I’m not buying the bike. the 16″ seat tube that transition insist on putting on this years bottlerocket unfortunately fits it that catagory (I’m 6’3 with a 34″ inside leg).