god I want to find someone to punch, companies taking out life insurance on their employees to benefit their turnover if they die while in their employ

GGGGRRRRRRR 👿

It's people not capitalism that are the problem. Just ask any one of the millions of victims of Stalin's Russia or Pol Pot's Cambodia.

Michael Moore would do a lot better if he wasn't an annoying arse. There were some good points made, but he reinforced the ridiculous concept that there is SOCIALISM and there is CAPITALISM and no grey area.

In reality it's possible to have a functioning market, a state safety net (ie, welfare programmes) and so on without having a bloke with a tash running the show and a parade every May Day. A lot of people don't seem to know that, particularly in the US.

The French have a pretty good capitalism system. Also, you sould check out some of the books written by George Soros. He may have been public enemy number one after the disatrous handling of the devaluation of the pound on Black Wednesday but he has some really commendable and valuable points to make about the problems with markets.

What channel was it on?

I recorded it and have just finished watching – was on channel 4 last night IIRC.

It's really about how f*cked up the US is – I thought pretty bad but I see I really had no idea – I thought the $700bn bail out was probably a good thing but seems I was wrong. So capitalism with little to keep it in check is a bad thing for sure but how far along the road to socialism do we need to be to get the right balance?

Also watched Have I got new for you with Peston – yep we're gonna be in for some real pain.

MM – is awful, just takes giant leaps with stats and facts…. not dissimilar to someone trading derivatives I bet.

He has a few good points, somethings people do are bad, but then people do bad things in all economic models.

Bah – dont want to go into this too much, not like there is an option for economics that someone wouldn't exploit for more power/money….

companies taking out life insurance on their employees to benefit their turnover if they die while in their employ

If it's good enough for your wife and kids…

god I want to find someone to punch, companies taking out life insurance on their employees to benefit their turnover if they die while in their employ

What, exactly, is wrong with this? Or is the company killing its employees in an attempt to improve the bottom line?

The point was that Insurance is usaully taken out against something you don't want to happen eg your car getting totalled. This was insurance for something the companies did want to happen as they'd profit from it. MM then pointed out that you wouldn't be able to take fire insurance out on your neighbours property, so why this.

Not saying I agree, just saying what he said.

I was unsure if there is a problem with companies taking out life insurance on their employees as thought it makes sense if you lose an important employee to get some compensation to cover the financial loss to the company. However, it did seem to be being used as an investment vehicle as documents referred to the expected returns and the insurance paid out was far more than would be needed to compensate for the 'dead peasants' as they were referred to. The main thing was that it was distasteful I think – poor people wondering how they'll be able to cope now that the family's bread winner has gone whilst the employee benefits by a 7 figure sum. It is of course illegal to insure an asset that isn't yours as you have an interest in the insurance paying out so why are people different?

The insurance thing, as far as I can see, is a basic tax fiddle – you pay the insurers, they invest the money, you know the employee will die sooner or later, and you get your return. Obviously insurance payouts aren't taxed in the same way as capital gains, so there's a saving to be made for the firm if they invest in this way.

I think it's distasteful too – fair enough with key workers that would have a serious implication if they suddenly popped off but shelf stackers etc?

I'm sure Walmart would always keep things above board but it doesn't take too much imagination to see someone, someday see the insured employees as savings scheme where the odd one could be 'harvested' if the cash flow ever got critical

Fugly, attention-seeking purveyor of bent facts and twiffle.

Having said that, I DID enjoy his contrast of Canada (where guns are legal) and the USA with regard to citizens shooting each other – also his cartoon-illustrated reasoning about why this might be so – "Plymouth Rock" and all that…

Michael Moore would do a lot better if he wasn't an annoying arse.

He does of course talk a lot of sense. But I do find it slightly ironic as well that he seems to have done very well out of the system he derides.

Well I don't think he's made money at the expense of others so I don't think there's any irony there – he's not a commie….

As for the film – I suppose most missed it but one thing that wound me up is the idea that Goldman Sacks have a significant impact on how the US is run – more investigation needed.

The worst thing though was those kids being locked away for months on minor charges – that is the sign of a truly f*cked up society.

Mr Woppit – Member
Fugly, attention-seeking purveyor of bent facts and twiffle.

he always reminds me of you 😉