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1. zokes - Member

   From the BBC:

   Ryanair, Europe's largest low-cost carrier, has cancelled all flights to and from northern Europe until at least mid-Wednesday because of the ash cloud.

   The airline's CEO, Michael O'Leary, has said he is "nervous" about the airlines who are seeking compensation because of the volcano.

   He also said that passengers seeking expenses in such extraordinary circumstances is "ludicrous."

   Why, exactly, is it ludicrous that passengers are claiming expenses from their airlines? The passengers have a contract with the airline to transport them from A to B at the prescribed time. If the airline renegues on that contract, through whatever reason, surely it's the airline's problem? Yes, the volcano is unusual, but not unknown. If you don't like the fact that one day your airline business may be grounded by reasons beyond your control, then don't operate one. Simples...

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. marcus - Member

   Force majeure

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. Drac - Moderator

   If you don't like the fact your flight might be cancelled due to reasons beyond the airlines control, don't fly.

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. PeterPoddy - Member

   Why, exactly, is it ludicrous that passengers are claiming expenses from their airlines?

   Because it's beyond their control. There's nowt anyone can do about it. Suck it up.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. dickydutch - Member

   Ive just rang through to them to try and get a refund on a ticket that was cancelled. Apparently theyre so busy they cant answer my call. Not particularly happy. They havent even emailed me to inform me how to go about processing a refund.

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. PeterPoddy - Member

   Ive just rang through to them to try and get a refund on a ticket that was cancelled. Apparently theyre so busy they cant answer my call. Not particularly happy. They havent even emailed me to inform me how to go about processing a refund.
   

   Mrs PP books travel for many people in her company as part of her job. She's spending all day on hold, 1hr+ each time, just to speak to someone, because her boss says she has to. When she gets through, there's nothing that can be done.

   Her advice - It's just tough titty. Forget about it. Walk away. It's not worth it. Give it a few days after it's all blown over (Pun intended!) before ringing again.

   Quit moaning.

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. cynic-al - Member

   Yup - airlines are covering hotels etc out of goodwill (or it maybe in the contract) - they don't have a duty to do so otherwise.

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. thisisnotaspoon - Member

   As a general rule insurance excludes stuff like this is as it would push up premiums disproportionately.

   £10 travel insurance for your week in spain covers you for the 1 in 20 or so people that lose a camera, passport of wallet (20*£10=£200, about the cost of sorting any of those).

   It would bankrupt them to have to cover however many million passengers for weeks or potentialy months of hotels and other expenses.

   If you dont agree with the small print, fly with an airline who will pay your expenses in this scenario, but they wont be as cheep as ryanair.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. zokes - Member

   Because it's beyond their control. There's nowt anyone can do about it. Suck it up.

   Tough $hit. Hiding behind force majeure is a bit low, frankly. So it's beyond their control. Tough. They'd happily milk you if there were reasons beyond your control as to why you couldn't make it to the airport and the plane did fly.

   They sold the ticket. They agreed the contract to transport you (and your goods at £10 per bag) (plus taxes) (plus surcharges). It's their problem.

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. gonefishin - Member

    airlines are covering hotels etc out of goodwill (or it maybe in the contract) - they don't have a duty to do so otherwise.

    If they are a European airline and flying into/around Europe then they do have a legal duty to provide meals and accomodation for passnegers stuck abroad. If Mr O'Leary hasn't built this risk into his pricing policy then perhaps his buisness model isn't quite a good as he thinks.

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. cynic-al - Member

    You miss the flight - you lose the fare. They can't fly you - they lose the fare.

    Dream on zokes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. deadlydarcy - Member

    There's a reason why Ryanair are so cheap (in every way). They're fine until the smallest thing goes wrong, then they leave you high and dry. I use them for only one route these days because noone else flies it.

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. BigDummy - Member

    They agreed the contract to transport you

    Indeed. How carefully did you read the contract before agreeing it? Admittedly it probably doesn't actually include the word "volcano".

    

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. Flaperon - Member

    If you pay 5 pounds for your flight should the airline really cough up for a 2 grand hotel bill for something not their fault?

    Insurance companies should be covering this, not the airlines. They take the opportunity to look at the dealer's cards before making a bet... well, this time it's backfired.

    I'm with O'Leary on this. Though if I paid more fir the ticket I'd expect correspondingly more support in return.

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. theotherjonv - Member

    Point is that it is EU law that the airline picks up the tab. O'Leary hasn't a leg to stand on this time.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8621779.stm

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. IanMunro - Member

    Insurance companies should be covering this, not the airlines
    Presumably airlines also have insurance.

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. Moses - Member

    Force majeure is there in the contract becasue of these unusual occurrences.
    Ryanair flies places you can't otherwise get to as cheaply and strands you there if it has problems. (Like me in Morocco)
    You'll get you money back for the flight, as they promised. It's just that getting home might cost you more by other routes.

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. enfht - Member

    The passengers have a contract with the airline to transport them from A to B at the prescribed time

    wrong, read the small print

    I think you're confusing Ryanair (thieving shits) with a volcano erupting

    If there was no petrol available for your car would you expect your car manufacturer to pay for a train or a hotel?

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. deadlydarcy - Member

    I'm with O'Leary on this. Though if I paid more fir the ticket I'd expect correspondingly more support in return.

    I'd be very careful about ever putting myself "with" a prick like O'Leary. He may be a man of comical soundbites, but he's an arsehole. Of that there's no doubt.

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. BigDummy - Member

    Are you stuck in Morrocco Moses? Ace.

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. cynic-al - Member

    IanMunro - Member
    Insurance companies should be covering this, not the airlines
    Presumably airlines also have insurance.
    

    
    Indeed - with force majure clauses...

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. uplink - Member

    It may run & run

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8626474.stm

    can folks do a class action on this sort of thing

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. funkynick - Member

    Just remember that the EU rules only apply on the return leg of a journey... so if you haven't started the journey yet you are not covered, and if you booked two singles then you are not covered either...

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. theotherjonv - Member

    It might seem unfair, and the circumstances are really exceptional, but them's the rules and if they haven't made a provision for this sort of thing happening then they will be in future.

    I just checked and they turned over €2.9 billion last year, making €100 million profit. I bet they have the cash reserves to do it (in fact the same report says they spent €1.3 billion on fuel last years so 1 week with no flights will save them €25 million in fuel which would pay for a quarter of a million extra nights in hotels and food at an average €100 per night) He's trying to avoid his obligations to save his profits which is what you'd expect him to do. Expect to pay more for your Ryanair flights in future though.

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. psychle - Member

    if you've booked accommodation & flights with the same agent/provider, then you may technically have a 'package holiday' arrangement, which is then covered by the operators ATOL license (if they're a UK operator and bona fide etc)... as far as I know, if you're covered by ATOL then in this circumstance the obligation is on the agent to cover your costs and get you home?

    Posted 2 years ago #
26. dickydutch - Member

    I wish I could get through to someone to a get a bloody refund!! Even an email address would be nice.

    Posted 2 years ago #
27. aP - Member

    I'm supposed to be going to Berlin on Friday morning, however its not so important that I'm prepared to put up with hours of being messed around so I probably won't go.
    Its not a big deal, I think Berlin will probably still be there next time.

    ...oh, and living near Heathrow its lovely at the moment, the weather's nice, the sky is clear and we can hear birds and church bells and stuff for the first time in over 10 years. I'd be quite happy for this to carry on indefinately.

    Posted 2 years ago #
28. tracknicko - Member

    ha ha. saw a guy in spain on the news. ferry to portsmouth. taxi to aberdeen!!!

    then asking 'who's gonna pay for this???'

    you are you idiot! a taxi to aberdeen! are you mad???

    Posted 2 years ago #
29. iDave - Member

    most the EU legistlation covers returns flights. this is why with Ryan air you have to buy two singles....

    Posted 2 years ago #
30. don simon - Member

    I haven't read all of this, but what I remember of contract law is... that if you enter a contract with specific clauses i.e. you ask the airline to deliver you to a specific destination at a specific time and they agree you might have a reason to make a claim.
    This is, I think, an act of god and therefore unforseen, (debateable).

    If you have a meeting in Paris at 16:00 and the flight arrives at 14:00, you might think that you have plenty of time. The airline might offer you an earlier flight to guarantee arrival. A reasonable request on the part of the airline, isn't it? You can now choose.

    If you have booked through Ryan Air and told them before buying the tickets that you have a deadline, they agreed to get you there on time and entered a new and slightly different contract. They are agreeing to get you there and not just fly you there. Then I think you can claim. But would have to contest the act of god element, good luck.

    If you booked the cheapest flight, got caught out by the volcano (why doesn't anyone call it by it's prper name??) and now want to claim. I think the answer is tough sh1t! Suck it up.

    Look, I took a gamble and lost, can I have my money back?

    Posted 2 years ago #
31. sharkbait - Member

    Although I don't like O'Leary or his stupid airline I am with all the airlines on this one. It is completely out of their control and personally I disagree with all these demands for compensation are a bit much. I do also think that the airlines' requests for compensation from the government are also b0ll0x - both sides have to suck it up on this occasion.

    Posted 2 years ago #
32. uplink - Member

    most the EU legistlation covers returns flights. this is why with Ryan air you have to buy two singles....

    I think they'll struggle to claim they don't sell return tickets

    

    Posted 2 years ago #
33. don simon - Member

    I see they're calling Don Quixote Airport by Ciudad Real, there was a call to name it Madrid South, it's 200km away FFS! Valladolid as Madrid North, again 200km. A bit cheeky, isn't it?

    Posted 2 years ago #
34. don simon - Member

    Bu66er!

    Posted 2 years ago #
35. zokes - Member

    O'Leary is trying to make it out that it's 'unfair' to claim from airlines for something out of their control.

    If you were ill the day before you were supposed to fly, that would also be unfair, but you'd still loose your money. (unless you were insured, but then why a volcano is less controllable than you being struck down with a virus is anyone's guess)

    He sells flights to places, it's unfair that a volcano erupted and stopped him doing so. But he sold the flights, and as such agreed to bring people back on their return flights. He can't do that, and should foot the bill for it, be it extra hotels or alternative transport. EU law says he has to do that.

    I'm pretty sure if in some way you managed to cause him some consequential losses through no fault of your own, he'd happily claim for them, and his lawyers fees too...

    Posted 2 years ago #

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