Viewing 36 posts - 1 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Violence / Intimidation on Trains
  • lodious
    Free Member

    Went to London at the weekend. Mixed group of 22, aged between 4 and 82. We go the train back at 8:00 pm w/reserved seats. There were some people sat in some of the seats we had reserved. We politely asked them to move, but they refused. When one of the females in our group (aged 50) indicated she would get the guard to sort out the seating, one of the blokes got up and proudly proclaimed 'If you don't **** off I’ll headbut you in the **** face, and if you get the guard we will come and find you on the train." The people in our party found seating elsewhere in the carriage, but one of the blokes stood up in the lisle and was staring at people in the group.

    The train sets off, and someone in the group discretely explained to the guard what had happened. The guard suggested we move, as he was not going to move them. Virgin helpfully continued to serve them alcohol from the buffet car. We all moved down to first class (with the agreement of the guard). We did not see them again, but it's left a nasty taste at the end of a really good day.

    Speaking to my wife, she said she sees this kind of thing all the time on the train, how common is it? What's the point in having reserved seating if the guards don't do anything to enforce it (I don't blame the guard, I would not have had a go)? Am I out of touch with what it's like travelling by train, or was this unlikely to happen again?

    woody2000
    Full Member

    I'm sorry, but if you were threatened with violence and the guard didn't do anything, then the guard wasn't doing his job. He could have called the transport police if he didn't want to tackle it himself?

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    What's the point in having reserved seating if the guards [if they] don't do anything to enforce it

    The only time I have been involved in an incident on a train the guard's only contribution to proceedings was to scarper, summon BTP and get the train cancelled. 😐

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    PracticalMatt
    Free Member

    The guard should have stopped the train at the nearest station with BTP availaible and had the party removed. They do the same on planes so why not trains?

    I honestly think that behaviour such as this warrants letters to the train company, BTP and possibly the minster for transport. This sort of shit makes me sick. Especially with very young and elderly people in the party.

    I spend my working days ensuring people like you can go about their business without feeling thretatend and uncomfortable and I get furious when I hear of stuff like this.

    badnewz
    Free Member

    I would write a letter to Virgin explaining this, asking for a full refund.
    The man who threatened to headbutt the lady is also committing a crime of intimidation – I would have called the police as well as a guard.
    In general behaviour on trains is becoming generally anti-social – loud phone calls, feet up on seats etc – but I've never seen any actual violence or intimidation that you've experienced.

    enfht
    Free Member

    I really feel for you, what a **** shame. It's a blessing this was just a verbal assault and didn't progress any further. Scum like this need frog marching to a cell and then before a Judge. I'd have definitely called the police and once everyone had moved into First I'd have potentially pulled the emergency cord to stop the train pulling away until the police attended which may have got me in trouble myself?

    nbt
    Full Member

    I think Badnewz has it spot on.

    joolsburger
    Free Member

    It's all too common now to see this kind of behaviour on trains.

    I was coming home from a black tie event late at night alone and got onto a train to find a chap who was on his way back from work being intimidated by a couple who were obviously the worse for drink. I went and sat opposite him to offer some support ( the train was pretty deserted) and they turned on me luckily I'm quite a large chap and managed to bluff my way out of trouble by phoning the police and standing up for myself until they left.

    The guard should have phoned the BTP I would complain to the company involved.

    duckman
    Full Member

    I am a big bugger,but every time I have asked people to move out of my seat, nicely mind,it always leads to trouble.Just something to do with the mindset created by our crap rail network IMO.I really feel for you having to put up with this arse,as soon as he threatened a woman in your party then it should have been a mobile phone call to police,sod the guard.A nice weekend in cells followed by court about now,job done.

    BigButSlimmerBloke
    Free Member

    And the train companies wonder why people prefer to fly, even if it's with LyinAir or SleazyJet?
    I can see the guard not wanting to have a go, but isn't that why there's cops? And once these idiots get fired up and know they get their way by threatening and intimidating behaviour, they can seriously go off on one.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    My gf had the same sort of treatment on the train back from mine a few weeks ago. Crowded train at Manchester, she was getting on with her road bike (which she'd reserved) and she had a booked seat as well. People were sitting in the section where the bikes go, wouldn't move, got abusive, guard did nothing except to suggest that she shouldn't be bringing a bike on at busy times!
    Luggage piled everywhere, people trying to get on and off at stations, her trying to move the bike to let people past, people getting arsey, she had a nightmare journey. 🙁

    lodious
    Free Member

    It's a shame, because it's the first time I have been on a train for ages, and the train itself was really good. Looks like it's back to the car next time 🙁

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    I'd say behaviour similar to that, although perhaps not quite as severe was fairly normal.

    And I have had the situation where people have been sat in a seat I have reserved, even though there's plenty of others free.

    On the tube coming back from a Wildhearts gig a while ago and there was a drunk bloke hassling a girl which she clearly wasn't that pleased about, so we all moved down the carriage & sparked up a conversation with her – about 8 of us all looking decidely worse for wear after a few hours of jumping around & drinking beer, wearing various 'metal' t-shirts. He soon moved along 🙂

    joolsburger
    Free Member

    I must be getting old but I'm becoming a bit pissed off with the rudeness of people. Everyday I travel into London and a pregnant lady gets on my train. I have yet to see anyone offer her a seat, I am guilty of making the request loudly until someone feels enough shame to move. It's amazing how engrossed in metro people can find themselves when a pregnant lady is about.

    Cocks.

    MrTall
    Free Member

    I stand up for myself in these situations because i simply don't believe that decent people should have to put up with scum like this. It does of course help that i'm 6'7" and 16st…

    I had a situation a few years back on the tube when i lived in London. Very obnoxious 'ganster wannabe' with big Affro and Single Glove (a la Michael Jackson) was being very intimidating to members of the carriage who were leaving one by one as they got given abuse. When he finally started on my girlfriend we got into a verbal exchange and he made it clear he wanted to fight me. I had no interest in this and told him so but he waited past his own stop until me and the gf got off to follow me. I was hoping that he would just leave after i stood up (I was wearing a big puffa jacket so looked huge…) but he waited until i got to the platform and threw a haymaker at me and then ran down the steps and waited in front of the ticket desk for me and then it all kicked off – despite me asking for the police to be called and there being 4 obvious cameras pointed at us. Anyway, despite the fact he hit me with a bottle he came off far worse than me and after he ran off the police managed to trace him later due to the huge handful of Affro hair that got ripped out in the fight. He got sent down for six months as he was already on remand for armed carjacking….

    So i could have come off much worse but these thugs thrive on the fear they instill in others and unless people stand up to them they will continue to do so. I understand that you had young and old with you but surely there must have been a good few blokes to help you out in a group of 22?

    I'd definately write a complaint to Virgin demanding the money back for all the tickets though and an explanation as to why the guard refused to do the job he is paid for and why the BTP were not called to the next station.

    Farmer_John
    Free Member

    Seems like we have all forgotten just how wonderful our railways are now that Prescott's 10 year plan to save the railways is nearly complete.

    I'm sure that it can only be a couple of people who have been hassled on trains – surely the rest of us are relaxing in our nice clean double decker trains and marvelling at the lack of people standing compared to 10 years ago.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Joolsburger – why don't you give her your seat?

    As for the OP – complain to the train company. The guard should have called BTP but it is too late now. He has a radio which he can arrange for the police to meet the train at the next station.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    I would hazard a guess that Joolsburger is already standing up!

    joolsburger
    Free Member

    I thought that was a given!

    It is true that these days intimidation is not enough though this is the sentencing guidline for threatening behaviour

    A financial fine of up to £5,000 and/or 6 months custody.

    The guideline for magistrates is that they consider a community penalty as the starting point in their sentencing decision but they do have the power to reduce the sentence by up to 1/3 for an early guilty plea, which may mean that a community penalty can be avoided/varied by the offender co-operating at the earliest stages.

    The magistrates will also consider compensation payment by the defendant to the victim.

    Whether or not the offence is regarded as serious depends on the aggravating and mitigating factors

    So you're a bully and an arsehole and you basically get a slapped wrist because you say you were drunk and it was all out of character.

    Does make me a bit cross.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Sorry Joolsburger – I must be hard of thinking today

    user-removed
    Free Member

    One job I didn't metion in the high horse thread was that of selling overpriced mars bars and drinks from a trolley on a train – horrible job, but I'll save the details for the other thread.

    Not a day went past without violence / abuse / theft. Both against me and the passengers. It didn't help that the trains involved were usually full of very drunken roustabouts returning to Glasgow after three weeks on the rigs.

    The guards spent the whole journey hiding in their locked van or locked in with the driver – they didn't even bother checking tickets when the rig workers were on board. Can't say I blame them, but it meant the only visible person in a uniform was me, and I took a lot of stick from passengers who couldn't sit in their reserved seats.

    I felt bad about it, but there was no way I was going to fight the good fight against drunken gorrilas – just not my job! Had to 'abandon-trolley' more than once and just let folk take whatever they wanted – some because they felt compensation was due, and some just because they could – and all that came out of my wages – didn't last long, and went down to be dismissed on my unicycle, just to show the boss what I thought of his joke of a job…. Whoops, wrong thread……..

    Olly
    Free Member

    Everyday I travel into London

    sadly, i think theres the key to your problem Jools.
    so many people on london trains are invariably self important twunts.

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    I'm afraid I don't buy the idea that the only possible thing the uniformed representative of the train company could ever possibly do about bad behaviour on the train that he is in charge of is to call the police.

    No-one is asking train guards to get stabbed, but for the amount I pay to travel by train I expect them to be ensuring as far as they can that the train is safe and pleasant. That means challenging the low level nastiness of foot/seat interfaces, graffiti, seat blocking etc etc and dealing promptly and firmly with rudeness and rowdiness in the hope that that means that nasty incidents like the OP describes just don't happen in the same way that they just don't happen on aircraft or in restaurants, say. That in turn requires the guard to be actually present and moving about the train, and it may mean they need more people on the train.

    Trains with particular problems – drunken rig workers, football hooligans, conventions of satanists – ought to be preduictable enough that they could conceivably be put on special measures of some sort.

    Sadly of course, they don't need to do any of this, because most people don't have their own Learjet and they're therefore already making plenty of money. 🙂

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Joolsburger: you have to be careful though. I think i can speak for all of us when I say we'd all rather see a pregnant lady stood up on a train than a fat lady sat down crying ((c) Jimmy Carr)

    SaxonRider
    Full Member

    I'm interested: has lodious been convinced to write to Virgin yet?

    We would all benefit if you did, as it might make the companies think about who they let travel on their trains.

    A thought, though: Britain is one of the few places on Earth I have visited where drinking in public is allowed without any sanction. Wouldn't it stop many of the behaviour problems if drinking was confined to pubs/restaurants/homes and other appropriate venues?

    I mean, in many places, the idea of having access to alcohol on a form of public transport would be insane (other than planes, of course; but those are well-regulated).

    kimbers
    Full Member

    as far as im aware most of europe has no anti drinking in public laws

    its not about availability of alcohol its about too many arseholes in this country imho

    and yes write to virgin and ask why btp werent called

    cant say ive ever seen anything that nasty on trains or the tube although plenty of leary drunken behaviour

    Jamie
    Free Member

    Hmmm. I am off to Gatwick on friday via the train. Better mad-max up my suitcase.

    lodious
    Free Member

    I would write to Virgin, but I did not purchase the tickets, and the person who did just wants to forget about the whole thing.

    badfink
    Free Member

    That's a shame really.

    I understand wanting to forget the event, but by doing so you're permitting those yobs to do exactly the same thing to someone else. And next time, they might just have enjoyed enough liquid refreshment to skip right past the threats, and get straight on with the headbutting.

    So it goes.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Maybe I've traveled less, but I've never been anywhere where beer was harder to get hold of on trains/in public! a couple of examples.

    Eastern Europe – poncey beer served in poncey glasses in a first class carridge that looked like something from the 1900's (in a very good way).

    France – Would you like a beer with your big mac?

    Theres arseho*** everywhere in the world, you just happen to live in Britain so see more British ones and presume the rest of the world is better off.

    project
    Free Member

    0800 50 40 50 BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE OR 999 AND ASK FOR BTP, as the call should be recorded they have a record of your problem etc.And should act on it.

    scu98rkr
    Free Member

    "I must be getting old but I'm becoming a bit pissed off with the rudeness of people. Everyday I travel into London and a pregnant lady gets on my train. I have yet to see anyone offer her a seat, I am guilty of making the request loudly until someone feels enough shame to move. It's amazing how engrossed in metro people can find themselves when a pregnant lady is about."

    Quite often people have deliberately got to the train early and sat there waiting so they can get a seat.

    Often people have paid several grand for a season ticket and feel like they entitled to a seat.

    Often people want to read and are already sat down.

    I agree this are all selfish answers, but if people are having to stand everyday. Really the train company needs to add more carriages.

    I must admit I was on the train back out of london the other day. I had got there 10-15 minutes early to get a seat(and partly to leave work early).

    I always read on the train and was reading and just as the train was about to leave a pregnant woman came and stood nearish me.

    I was thinking I should get up and offer her a seat, but Id got there so early to make sure I had a seat to read in. I didnt really want to and felt like it would be more fair if someelse who'd got there later should offer her a seat.

    Luckily for me someone else stood up and offered her a seat. I think I probably would have stood up and offered her my seat if anyone had nt but I did nt need to make the choice in the end. There you go thats reason why people dont get up sometimes.

    Im a bad person everybody hate me .

    mt
    Free Member

    It's the country we live in now. only the bullies get what they want, the law abiding or those that are not in a postion to stand to the rude and bad mannered must learn to live with it. Those in authority at almost all levels cannot or will not do anything to reverse this decline.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    lodious: "It's a shame, because it's the first time I have been on a train for ages, and the train itself was really good. Looks like it's back to the car next time"

    To be fair, this sort of thing's very rare in my experience, I've used the east coast line for years and never seen anything like this. Don't let one bad experience put you off.

    I did get this once coming back from the Reading festival, 2 guys in our seats who refused to shift, on a very busy train. Got a wee bit unpleasant, so my brother got the guard. Understandably he didn't want to take these 2 big lads on by himself but instead of just bottling it, called for support and at the next station, two BTP guys wandered onto the train and booted them off. All very professional (except that later on, we found one of the scumbag's rucksacks under the seat :mrgreen:)

    lodious
    Free Member

    Thanks for the info Northwind, it is good to hear that the BTP took it seriously.

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