Both in Evans sale both reduced,both in my size, croix de fer £100 more over vapour for the discs etc worth it?
Use- winter training for mtb and road, bit of cross if I get round to it, rides with wife on towpaths etc, spot of commuting.

Thoughts please

Winter & off road use?

Discs every time.

That's a difficult one. I have a vapour and lust over the Croix de Fers. My perception (which may be completely wrong 🙂 ) is that if you want a bomb proof commuter / tourer and you don't mind the added weight, then the Croix de Fer is the one to go for. I you want something a bit lighter, nippier (more fun ) then the Vapour is where it's at.

The benefit of discs on the cdf may be offset against its propensity to rust if used in the filthiest of british winter weather. The vapour wont rust, but you may go through more rims.

Double bubble post 🙁

I have a CdF, used it for 2 winters of really nasty commuting oop North.

The disc brakes are great. Best piece of kit on the bike. I haven't had to change the pads, barely even had to adjust them. You also won't be wearing through your rims.

I wouldn't recommend the CdF for some serious CX'ing, it's a bit heavy. The newer one though should be lighter than mine, with it's Reynolds 725 frame (mine is R 520).

From your description I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the CdF over the Vapour though, it's great for what you sound like you'll use it for.

The benefit of discs on the cdf may be offset against its propensity to rust if used in the filthiest of british winter weather.

????

My steel commuter, used on salted Scottish roads for several years, no rust, no rust with steel mtb either. A non-issue.

My steel commuter, used on salted Scottish roads for several years, no rust, no rust with steel mtb either. A non-issue.

Depends how much use it gets in propper shi$$y weather.
I doubt that folk that get bothered by a bit of dampness under their goretex ride much in proper scottish weather anyway. 😉

Not really, salt keeps the bike damp so really accelerates rust. How come you didn't know that?

I apologise, I should have been clearer in what I meant by proper shi$$y weather.

I meant the cold, wet, grimness, you often get in winter, which usually coincides with there being grit/salt (which, as you so eloquently pointed out, may, under certain conditions, increase the speed at which ferrous metals, of which steel is perhaps the most common, rust) on the road, courtesy of the local cooncil or highways agency to help prevent vehicles skidding on ice.

I'm surprised you didn't understand that.

I can confirm there have been no CdeF frames returned due to failure from rust.

So geoffj we are talking about the same thing?

Oh well, maybe its just a theoretical risk then.

Mister P – do you work for or represent Genesis?

I'd get the Vapour (in fact I nearly did before my situation changed). The CdF strikes me as a cx bike for mountain bikers, whereas the Vapout is a cx bike. The brakes are fine. They'll both be a heap of fun though…

stever – depends if the OP wants a CX bike or a winter/commute/tourer/CX bike.

FWIW I run 35 mm slicks, full SKS mudguards and a rack on my CdF, which is used 99% for commuting and the odd road ride.

It's now surplus to requiremensts though and should be up for sale soon….

It's now surplus to requirements though and should be up for sale soon….

Could be keen on this, depending on size/condition/price etc… feel free to to drop me an email when you're ready 🙂

Also considering these two, along with the day one cross alfine (if it really exists), Surly Crosscheck and from the left field the roadrat (esp the Alfined one).

Being on the tall side – 6 foot 6, any comment on how all these fair in the biggest size. Infact, not sure the Genesis range will be big enough for me at all.

They'll both be a heap of fun though…

I can confirm that my Vapour is a heap of fun. Road bike in the summer, CX bike in the winter – I've even TTd on it. Only v slight issue is toe overlap with some CX tyres. Landcruisers (32c) are fine with my size 11s.

"The CdF strikes me as a cx bike for mountain bikers, whereas the Vapout is a cx bike. "

bingo! )

Think I'll keep on my original course and go for the CdF but then maybe I should look at a Roadrat drop bar! Decisions decisions!

I've just ordered a day one on the C2W scheme. mainly for commuting, but can't wait to have the freedom to go pretty much where I want without having to slog an MTB on roads

I have a Vapour and it is a great bike, light enough for 50 mile + road rides, and sturdy enough for off road shenanigans, if you do get one replace the brake pads, the brakes are good but only with a change of pads. One other thing to consisder is that the Vapour comes fitted with interupter brake levers on the top of the bars, the CdF i was looking at the other day didn't, and i do like mine when i'm off road.

If it's not for any serious cx, this looks a decent buy

http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=22716

Had a Vapour and it was a great bike, much better than the Tricross and Jake I tried. In the end it gave me too much of a taste for speed and I swapped it for a road bike. The brakes are cr@p though.

I reckon relatively crap brakes are a good thing on a cross bike, saves you barrelling into rocky sections like you would on a 6 inch trail bike.
Even on my lightened for commuting hardtail I end up with many more flats than I should simply by forgetting which bike I'm on and that it has smaller, thinner tyres.

TBH the brakes wern't an issue offroad but on road they were awful and sound like a turkey beeing strangled.

Good brakes on cx bikes just mean you lock up more easily, doesn't slow you down much better!

I expected my CdF to be the ultimate all weather commuter. However, while it is a great idea in theory, the execution leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

Poor durability of paint (impractical colour too!), and a ridiculously heavy frame and wheelset. Couldn't believe how heavy it is (and this is the 2010 version). I had no illusions it would be a raceable crosser (have a proper CX bike for that), but it feels very sluggish and 'dead' on the road compared to my cheap alu Dolan CX frame. Stable though (like a tank).

To be fair to the CdF, I'd ride it down some things I wouldn't ride a normal cross bike down.

It's a bit like comparing a racey flat bared hardtail to a long travel HT.

I'm always surprised at what it will happily go down trail wise.

I think it makes a lot of sense if you have a lot of genuinely testing offroad local to you but linked with a lot of road and tracks in between.

I was sceptical about the discs but they are a useful if weighty addition. I think the speed kings are more than to the job traction wise of coping with discs…

"ridiculously heavy frame" ?

heavy compared to a 'cross race, yes. but ridiculously? not really. make a disc-braked road/cross frame that's safe for off road use under a light-tourer load, especially considering CEN testing, and tell me how much lighter it can be.. not much. fact is that a larger (ie less compact) road frame will often end up being very similar in weight to a compact, larger tubed MTB. it could be a few oz lighter but it'd end up too flexible or dent-prone, or lacking margin for safety or durability.
same for the wheels. if you want light, the Vapour's light. If you want tough, the croix de fer is, but it adds weight.

discs and a steel fork also add weight.

Ok I've decided on a Croix de fer but am having a confidence failure in my size choice! I'm 6'1" 33 1/2 inside leg, not sure if I'd be best with a 56 or a 58 anyone know how they come up for size?

5'10 short legged knuckle draggin umpalumpa here riding a 56cm Vapour. I reckon you need the 58.