Hi all,

I had a good summer of cycling with no real structured training other than trying to get out more on the bike. Did a few races (xc and enduro) and did reasonably well, but want to do better next year and have added some more races to the calendar, including one enduro withsignificanyl longer stages than i am used to. Things I noticed were on the XC races I really started struggling after 1 and a half hours of full pace, and in the enduros after 1 .5 to two mins of going for it.

Currently, I go to the gym 5 days a week, doing splits (I think that’s the word) so train back Monday, chest Tuesday. stretch and do yoga Wednesday, legs Thursday, shoulders Friday. all of these have a little core work too. I don’t massively go for it tin these sessions, just keep fit and I’m not a ‘big’ guy. 80kg, 182 cms.

from my limited research I want to increase and formalise my training for cycling with base miles, intervals and skills/riding etc.

How can I fit all this in? I guess the gym work will /does help, but perhaps will make to me too tired for increasing cycle training? What’s a good balance? drop some gym work and do some intervals at lunch instead?

Currently I ride three times a week approx. 25km of MTB each time , and I commute to work on my bike, a measly 10km a day. strava says around 120km per week on bikes in total.

thanks in advance

You could drop two of the gym sessions and focus on training your whole body with compound movements like squats, deadlifts, presses and pulls. Saves you time and those bigger movements are more effective than training smaller individual muscle groups. The time you save could be spent targeting your weaknesses, e.g. an interval training session to help you work on surviving those short, sharp efforts in the enduro races.

Eating well and recovering well are just as important, if not more important, than training more.

In your position I would split my week up as

1 weights session, whole body compound movements
1 yoga/stretching session with core work
1 non biking aerobics (in gym or go for a run)
2 bike rides, 1 shorter 1-2 hours, 1 longer 3hours plus

consider dropping the commute cycling on rest day(s)

If you want to increase your training for cycling then I’d look at consolidating your strength training.

Current strength split:

Monday – back
Tuesday – chest
Wednesday – legs
Friday – shoulders

You could put this into two sessions easily. Maybe an upper/lower, push/pull, or compounds split:

Example Upper/lower:

Monday: Lower (Squat, deadlift, hip thrust, and various other accessory/isolation lifts)

Wednesday: Upper (Bench press, shoulder press, horizontal row, chin ups, again whatever assistance lifts you want (Chicks love gunz))

Without more information it’s hard to be too specific, but if your ultimate goal is cycling fitness then cycling should be the mainstay of your training.

Get the most bang for your buck from your strength work. Big compound movements, progressive overload to get stronger, good form, etc. No real need for 4 days for you, to my mind.

First thing i noticed is that you spend 3 sessions doing your back, legs and shoulders. This could all be done in one exercise, the deadlift.

I disagree with hugo slightly, i wouldn’t squat and deadlift in the same session.

Pretty consistent advice so far.

If you want to be better at cycling, then cycle more. (Preferably with a group who are quicker than you).

Winter training can be a minefield if you read too many sources. I bought a couple of programs in the last couple of years to try and structure my training. I dont really follow them any more but what works for me is this.

2 x weight sessions a week. One with 5×5 squats and some upper body work.
The other focusing on deadlifts with some stability work thrown in.

For november and december i dont even look at the bike generally. I run and if the weather is terrible ill use the rower in the gym. Although if the weather is not too shabby il be out.

From jan onwards il start incorporating cycle training on the bike in the gym. I have a few sufferfest videos which takes the boredom away and gives me some structure.

I use a foam roller and stretch at home. Only takes 20 mins a few times a week.

I know a lot of people will disagree with what i do but it works for me and thats all i am bothered about.

Knock the gym on the head and start riding your bike 😀

thanks so far, really useful. One thing i would add is that i do deadlifts and squats, (squats on leg day deadlifts on back day)but that of course only equates to once a week.

Other thing i would add is that part of the reason i do the gym work is time. I can do a decent workout in 45 mins at lunch with supersets and a high tempo. If i switched to twice a week in the gym with an upper/lower split such as hugo suggests, could i do that in a lunch hour or would it require more time? And could i utilise the ‘spare’ lunch hours for intervals or other training?

Hugo could you recommend a program if that is the route i decide to take?

Would you say the the distance i am cycling is not enough, as i suspect…? am very keen on getting some intervals in as well.

Just saying 3 rides of 25km is kinda meaningless.

Regardless to whether you’re limited on time or not to improve then you need to be riding some of the time above the intensity that you race at. Therefore intervals are the way to go.

If its XC racing you’re aiming for then ride off-road intervals on a loop or on trails that you know. Anything from multiple reps of 4 minutes or so at pretty much max up to longer 20 minutes race pace reps. Include both hills and descents in these as well as “flat” sections.

Couple of sessions like that plus a longer (more than race time) ride is the fundamentals to a training plan. Easiest way is to hang with a good club and let them decide whats going on.

Training doesn’t need to be complicated it needs to be done consistently.

If you want to be better at cycling, then cycle more. (Preferably with a group who are quicker than you).

+1

Realistically it’s what will have the most effect, especially in the long term.

Also, rather than doing everything at once, consider periodisation. Spend the next couple of months racing CX or an Autumn XC series, or something to keep you occupied and busy until Christmas.

Then split the year into 8 week blocks, each block consisting of 2x 3 weeks progressively harder workouts and a week of recovery.

Jan-Feb Just concentrate on miles/hours. Just concentrate on how good it’ll be to get upto 100 miles by the end of Febuary, and remember these will always be the most miserable rides of the year.

March – April – concentrate on FTP, in the gym do things like swimming, rowing etc if it’s miserable outside and the Turbo’s boring. Still needs regular race length rides, but things like 2x20min (or 20min repeats to failure if you have a power meter) become more important in terms of building up fitness rather than miles.

May – June – Anaerobic stuff, this is where the squat’s come in. This kind of fitness is more short lived, so you do it last. As you cut back on the total miles you’ll lose some of that endurance but you’ll lose it nowhere near as quick as you lose your sprint, which is why you don’t work on your sprint in January or it’ll be gone by March. That’s why going to the gym now is counter productive, those sessions (and recovery time between them) would be better spent building a base, getting race practice or just trying to stay mentally fresh for next year.

Thisisnotaspoon, that sounds like a good long term programme, thanks. For myself though, I dropped weights entirely about 8 years ago and replaced them with circuits, Insanity, Boxercise etc, much better all round strength and conditioning than lifting metal and a hell of a lot less dull.

First thing i noticed is that you spend 3 sessions doing your back, legs and shoulders. This could all be done in one exercise, the deadlift.

I disagree with hugo slightly, i wouldn’t squat and deadlift in the same session.

Agree consolidation definitely required, and deadlifts are fantastic, but as a shoulder exercise? Traps yes, but shoulders not really, no. Some kind of pressing motion is called for here.

As to working deadlifts and squats in the same session, you wouldn’t, but many would!

Other thing i would add is that part of the reason i do the gym work is time. I can do a decent workout in 45 mins at lunch with supersets and a high tempo. If i switched to twice a week in the gym with an upper/lower split such as hugo suggests, could i do that in a lunch hour or would it require more time? And could i utilise the ‘spare’ lunch hours for intervals or other training?

I’m no expert at putting together training programs, but in your position I would definitely swap out a couple of gym sessions and use the lunch break for intervals.

Yoga is great as is the gym, but by the sounds of things you are doing a bodybuilder type split, where as you could get more out of it if you focused more of compound exercises and stuff that will help you on the bike (unilateral exercises)

Also I would try and get out for a longer ride (50k or longer) once a week. If time is a factor and you can’t do a long MTB ride, get a road bike and just get the miles in.

A long ride once a week, plus intervals and more focused, functional strength training will go a long way.

The Swedish Chef – Member
Just saying 3 rides of 25km is kinda meaningless.

Ouch! Appreciate the honesty though.

Ok how about:

Monday gym upper , evening night ride , from experience this is usually 25km
Tuesday intervals in the gym on the bike (especially in winter , could swap to outdoors in summer)
Weds rest. No commute on the bike but perhaps stretching at lunch
Thursday: gym lower perhaps with night ride in evening
Fridays: intervals?
Saturday : rest/ very light ride
Sunday : 50km (or longer) ride

Or is that madness and will kill me?

XC races not the focus, just did a couple for fun. #enduro is the main thing for next year

Looks way better!

Will it kill you? Shouldn’t do. Could do. That depends on your recovery work. This is hugely underrated.

Make sure you eat, especially after your training, you’ll need more carbs on training days. Especially if you’re doing a ride after the gym, double especially on lower body day! Plenty of protein depending on your goals (if you’re looking to gain a large amount of muscle or not). Diet is a whole massive other topic…

Sleep! Massively ignored. Simple diagnostic? Do you wake up naturally or with an alarm clock? If the latter, go to bed earlier. Your body goes through adaption, ie becomes fitter, during your rest periods, especially sleep. Don’t waste your training.

Sorry, the “kinda meaningless” was meant as they don’t describe what you’re doing in those rides, not that they are “meaningless” in the grand scheme of things.

Clearly 3 rides of 25km with technical descents taken at pace with efforts up the hills clearly replicates the type of scenarios you’re find in an Enduro event.

Personally I’d rest completely Friday and do back to back rides Sat and Sun, but your schedule may not allow for that.

I would do legs as early as you can in the week. Can take 3-4 days to get over if you do it properly. You don’t want that anywhere near a long weekend ride

The three rides are in , you probably know it Swedish Chef , it’s round Delsjön for example , Leo’s AM challenge course. Not at race pace however. So yes technical climbing and descending. Will take on board the tip about legs earlier on in the week.

I get 7 hours sleep a night , and am fairly good with what I eat , mainly because of my current gym stuff. But yes will look at it more closely .

Your revised plan looks good, but I’d be conscious of trying to ensure rest or easy day after leg day and long ride.

I commute to work on my bike, a measly 10km a day. strava says around 120km per week on bikes in total.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother including a commute that short in your weekly mileage. Continue riding to work but use it for recovery, nice and slow to spin your legs and help getting over any stiffness. Lots of people like to extend their commute as a convenient way of getting the miles in, I prefer to keep it separate to my ‘proper’ riding.

Bare in mind that most training plans are based on road mileage. 25km of hard off road is a completely different beast to an easy 25km road ride.

Most of the guys I race with are XC, CX and roadies which may change things slightly but I’m not aware that any of them go to gyms and lift weights. They all ride for training.

If you want to get better at riding you’ll need to ride more and drop some gym work. Maybe consider working over a longer cycle if you still want to do weights and the like. If you worked over 2 weeks you’d still have the balance but fit in more cycling.

Still it seems like you are trying to cram a lot in. I don’t like to call it training but through the warmer drier months my weeks are a bit like this

Mon: Easy ride
Tue: Hard ride
Wed: Pilates
Thu: Hard ride
Fri: Horse riding
Sat: Race/Hard ride
Sun: Walking/Easy activity.

I commute by bike but only about 20km per day.

I’ve had a road win, a CX win, 2 hill climb wins, 28th in the national Mtb marathon, and numerous podium positions.

What kind of results are you hoping to achieve, how motivated are you? I couldn’t cope with a rigid training schedule as it would suck the fun out. Hard ride can be anything (Mtb, CX, flat, hilly) just means I need to come back tired.

Go buy yourself Joe Friel’s Cyclist Training Bible.

You need to balance training with recovery in the short term and have an annual plan of when you went to be at your peak, for us in the UK thats usually July, August, September.

A typical plan from British Cycling will be along the lines of:

Monday- Rest
Tuesday-Strengh/Core/Reps etc.
Wednesday- Rest or cross
Thursday- Intervals/Turbo
Friday- Rest
Sat- Ride
Sun- Ride Hard

You’ll also need a HRM or power meter to measure effort and results.

I would do legs as early as you can in the week. Can take 3-4 days to get over if you do it properly. You don’t want that anywhere near a long weekend ride

I agree.

Thursday: gym lower perhaps with night ride in evening
Fridays: intervals?
Saturday : rest/ very light ride
Sunday : 50km (or longer) ride

Is a recipe for not getting the most out of your riding, as you will be knackered from squatting and deadlifting and then 3 days of riding. Of course it depends how heavy you are going with the weights.

I’d organise it so you train legs/lower body then have a rest day/recovery day. Say Lower body on Tuesday then you would have enough time to recover for the weekend long ride.

Also i’d keep the yoga; good for recovery, injuries and general flexibility and health.

Most of the guys I race with are XC, CX and roadies which may change things slightly but I’m not aware that any of them go to gyms and lift weights. They all ride for training.

Thing is I really enjoy lifting weights, I find it fun and it has other benefits. I take your point about CX and roadie friends not lifting weights, but on the other hand most of the people I know that ride DH or Enduro, most definitely lift weights, squats and deadlift especially.

The goal is to improve and push myself. if I look at the results from this year, I was top 15% in the enduro’s , top 25% in the XC races. So an improvement on that really. If I refer back to my first post, I think intervals could make a big difference to me, so I will certainly be giving those a go.

I’m afraid i can’t ride both days at the weekend. Family life and all that. Plus i really like getting wasted on friday night (joke).

yes peak would be june july august september i think.

will probably start next week, easing into intervals with once a week maybe to begin with

What sort of intervals are you planning on doing?

Is it wise to do intervals without a base?

Which is your weakest area when it comes to enduros?

Can you improve your riding techniques?

Will you be able to handle all of this training considering it sounds like you don’t do lots at the moment?

Wouldn’t it be better to slowly increase your training?

Are weights really necessary? How comes lots of scrawny kids with no muscles are really good at cycling?

davidtaylforth – Member

What sort of intervals are you planning on doing?

dont know, had thought about ’round the clock’ i think its called thats another question. any tips ?

Is it wise to do intervals without a base?

dont know what you mean by base. i’m guessing you mean i basic level of fitness? if so, i think have that, as i have said i ride three tines a week, mountain biking. apologies if you mean something else.

Which is your weakest area when it comes to enduros?

i run out of juice after around a minute and a half.

Can you improve your riding techniques?

yes

Will you be able to handle all of this training considering it sounds like you don’t do lots at the moment?

i think i do do a fair bit of training at the moment, certainly a good ‘base’ to improve on

Wouldn’t it be better to slowly increase your training?

i dont know, thats why i’m asking … 🙂

Are weights really necessary? How comes lots of scrawny kids with no muscles are really good at cycling?

have mentioned that in previous post

yes peak would be june july august september i think.

You’ll only peak if you periodize/taper. Otherwise you’ll at best just get fit, or plateau after a couple of months.

Pick one event (enduro national championships?), put that in you calendar, 8 weeks before that start 2x 3 week blocks (+rest weeks) training on your sprinting. 8 weeks before that, anaerobic intervals, 8 weeks before that threshold, 8 weeks before that endurance. Then go back and look at other races/events that support that plan.

You can peak for an event, but by definition it’s a level of fitness that’s not sustainable long term, so you can’t peak for a whole summer. What you can do is have a few peaks, say for an early season XC race, then using that aa base work on your anaerobic fitness for an enduro race, then another block to tweek your fitness to racing CX.

Are weights really necessary? How comes lots of scrawny kids with no muscles are really good at cycling?

Being powerful is good but being lean is better. However being powerful and lean is best of all. Having said that there are many benefits from weight training (not necessarily related to bicycle racing) other than increased strength/power which are often overlooked.

I struggle to fit on more than 2 rides a week with work. I find with weights and core exercises shorter and more intense workouts are best for me.

Mon – Bench Press, Tricep Dips, Yoga
Tue – Hilly MTB ride on the SS with intense sprints
Wed – Chinups,Pull ups, Shoulder press, Yoga
Thur – Bench Press, Tricep Dips, Yoga
Fri – Rest
Sat – Longer ride with a few friendly sprints
Sun – Chinups,Pull ups, Shoulder press, Yoga

Every few weeks i have a weeks rest from weights but keep doing Yoga. Weights and yoga sessions are no more than 30 mins each evening.

Being powerful is good but being lean is better. However being powerful and lean is best of all. Having said that there are many benefits from weight training (not necessarily related to bicycle racing) other than increased strength/power which are often overlooked.

Does weight training really increase power? Bradley Wiggins is pretty powerful, he’s really skinny though.

Does weight training really increase power? Bradley Wiggins is pretty powerful, he’s really skinny though.

Do bears shit in the woods?

All top DH’ers and Enduro riders lift weights.

Different kind of power.

I do the following;

Commute to work every day. I feel this keeps me ticking over and it helps me get intervals in whilst I am on a busy week.

Monday – Recovery Day usually
Tuesday – Gym first thing. Race training with the Lads in the evening, c80km including getting there and back and do stuff from attack simulations, sprint etc.
Wednesday – Club ride
Thursday – Gym First thing. Longer ride home
Friday – Rest (Although still commute on the bike)
Saturday – Long Ride
Sunday – Recovery Ride

If I am racing I will taper during the week if its a key goal.

Does weight training really increase power?

Yes, if you do it right, and provided you’re not confusing weight training with body building.

I race enduro and have been working with a coach for the past year, so this will be useful for you.

The reason you’re blowing up past 1.5 hours in races and 2 minutes in stages is because you’ve not got the base aerobic fitness to build upon later in the year, when you’re trying to add speed and power with your intervals. Over winter, your aim is to do lots of long, steady rides, staying in heart rate zone 2, to get your body using fat to fuel it and be more efficient. The more work your aerobic system does, the better. In the gym, your aim should be to get stronger, but using more full body exercises, because your muscle groups never work in isolation when you’re racing.

Your sessions over winter should be:

Lots of long, steady rides in Z2 heart rate. ( 3+ hours and road bike is the only real option here as mtb will spike your heart rate too much). The overall volume should be greater than any other time of year as well.

Gym sessions, can mix upper, lower and full body depeneding on fitting around your riding, but don’t work muscle groups in isolation, like you’re doing. Press ups, chin ups, pull ups, squats, lunges, deadlifts, tri dips, plank and other core exercises all good here. The yoga and mobility work is great to do, as unnecessary muscle tightness will reduce efficiency

Your mtb rides should be skills based, so not pedalling hard, working on corners, squashing jumps, tech sections, etc. Having fun basically.

No intervals until a couple of months before racing starts.

Periodize. Use rest weeks of greatly decreased volume and 1-2 rest days a week in a normal training week.

PS. Diet is hugely important!

Yes, if you do it right, and provided you’re not confusing weight training with body building.

Are you sure? Why do cyclists use power meters and do interval sessions if what they should actually be doing is lifting weights in the gym?

If you won’t believe it from me how about from your “powerful” hero? http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/training/bradley-wigginss-tour-de-france-training-40924

zilog6128 – Member
If you won’t believe it from me how about from your “powerful” hero? http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/training/bradley-wigginss-tour-de-france-training-40924

😀

Is the OP looking to do a three week long stage race?

Strength training, both upper and lower body is really important for enduro, especially with the way the format is going in terms of track technicality, as you need that full body strength to properly handle the bike, pump powerfully and keep you in one piece when you inevitably crash. Don’t train like a roadie, it won’t work.

The previous poster may have a point, I have no idea what an enduro is tbh.

Since this thread seems to be focusing on strength exercises though, here’s a vid I found useful.

You could drop two of the gym sessions and focus on training your whole body with compound movements like squats, deadlifts, presses and pulls. Saves you time and those bigger movements are more effective than training smaller individual muscle groups. The time you save could be spent targeting your weaknesses, e.g. an interval training session to help you work on surviving those short, sharp efforts in the enduro races.

Eating well and recovering well are just as important, if not more important, than training more.

This.