Can someone explain it in laymans terms?
Aren’t these sort of things defined as maximum/minimum dimensions?
Wouldn’t it be pretty clear whether it complies or not?

Rules are open to interpretation 🙂

I imagine it’s hard to put into laymans terms what must be one of the most technical “sports” in the world!

My understanding is there is a maximum size that the diffuser can be but Brawn and the others have bent the rules by using bodywork parts to effectively make the diffuser bigger

Rules are open to interpretation

That’s kind of what I’m getting at. What I heard reported was that the objecting team ‘felt it gave Braun etc an unfair advantage’ which is hugely subjective. Now I’m sure that there was more substance to the complaint than “We don’t feel it’s fair” so what was it?

I imagine these things are specified either dimensionally (absolute or area or ratio of a to b) or ‘must not produce more than x force when in and airflow of y‘ etc. Isn’t it just as simple as gettig the tape measure out or bunging it in an air tunnel? (Probably not)

question is, if Ferrari now copy these designs, will they be disqualified?

I think the diffusers are legal, but they have been creative, within the rules, with regard to the bodywork around the diffuser, thus effectively creating more diffuser.

I think

My understanding is there is a maximum size that the diffuser can be but Brawn and the others have bent the rules by using bodywork parts to effectively make the diffuser bigger

Ah, so something that’s not the diffuser is either doing some diffusing or helping the diffuser diffuse more effectively.

Aren’t all the parts designed to work together?

Everyone else is just pissed off that they didn’t think of it.

question is, if Ferrari now copy these designs, will they be disqualified?

some chance

Without wanting to appear cynical, rear diffusers have a history of upsetting the apple cart. Had this been Ferrari, McLaren, etc doubtless it wouldn’t be an issue, as it’s some of the lower order teams, can’t have them getting all uppity now can we…

I remember one of the fall-outs (sp?) of the death of Senna was surprisingly, a reduction in the size of rear diffusers, now this rule change only really effected Minardi, who up until that point had found themselves with a tidy car and pair of drivers…Had nothing to do with Senna’s crash, but was included under lowering corner speeds…Go figure

question is, if Ferrari now copy these designs, will they be disqualified?

Yes and its been implied the management are trying to give Brawn a helping start.

If other teams (knowing it will be futile) start making the changes the rules will be reviewed swiftly- top box wings anyone?

Just look at how they’ve mated the bodywork to the diffuser, clearly just clever thinking…

the rules specify that the upper edge of the diffuser must be absolutely flat and horizontal. the disputed designs feature a second element that meets this requirement while incorporating another lower element that doesn’t. it’s ‘creative’ but meets the letter of the rules….i just wish they could have clarified the point before the race so nobody is racing under appeal. makes the sport look stupid. again.

These protests should really read: “Damn it, I wish we’d thought of doing that.”

I dont think it makes the sport look stupid, I think it emphasises the clever engineering and rule interpretation that’s the only thing that salvages the sport from being utterly dull IMO.

I think what they are doing is making the manditory rear crash structure ( which usually supports the rear wing) intrude into the diffuser “window” as set by the rules. The fact that its profile of the crash structure happens to extend the throat of the diffuser and increase downforce is pure coincidence of course!

I’d expect that they’ll be banned after this GP. Brawn will do well in qualifying but both cars will retire, no harm no foul and Brawn secure a nice sponsor for the future.

It’s to do with confilicting regulations on the diffuser and rear impact absorbing structures, if i’ve read correctly. They (toyota, brawn & williams) have incorporated elements of their rear diffusers into the crash structure, thereby neatly circumventing the diffuser height rules.

Good engineering design, imho.

oh dear..

ferrari in “you cant have better ideas than us shocker”

Varzi is completely correct, we (Williams) just followed the rules to the letter, we justused the R.I.S and lower wishbones to our advantage!!

Well i hope the toys have all been put back in the prams and we can get down to some racing… It’s just jealousy from the other teams.

So excited about Sunday’s race! Off to Spa this year, going to be awesome!

*makes note to pop an and paint the wall behind the tv, just to see which is more entertaining.

“I dont think it makes the sport look stupid”

sorry, i wasn’t trying to say that technical innovation makes it stupid. disagreement and not (potentially) being able to declare a winner until a couple of weeks after the event make it look silly. lateral interpretation of the rules should be a big element of f1, but if the fia/teams can agree on ‘skate fins’ prior to the season then surely they should have been able to come up with something here to clear it up before it comes to this.

atlaz – Member

I’d expect that they’ll be banned after this GP. Brawn will do well in qualifying but both cars will retire, no harm no foul and Brawn secure a nice sponsor for the future.

Virgin are widely reported to be within hours of announcing a sponsorship deal and the cars could be running the new colours this weekend.. Anyone spotted any Brawn Mechanics in the Aerosol Paint aisle at Aussie Halfords looking for red paint?

sobriety – Member

It’s to do with confilicting regulations on the diffuser and rear impact absorbing structures, if i’ve read correctly. They (toyota, brawn & williams) have incorporated elements of their rear diffusers into the crash structure, thereby neatly circumventing the diffuser height rules.

Good engineering design, imho.

Sure is, and Ferrari et al are just upset because they didn’t think of it and are potentially losing 0.5 seconds per lap to the Brawn design.

Roll on Sunday Morning… I can’t wait!!!! (and saturday morning for quali, and perhaps this morning coming for first practice) 🙄

Roll on Sunday Morning… I can’t wait!!!! (and saturday morning for quali, and perhaps this morning coming for first practice) [:roll:]

Got a group of friends getting together, going out for a ‘quiet drink’ on Friday night before getting up for quali on Saturday. Well. That’s the plan… Might end up watching the rerun at lunchtime…

I’m out at a ‘do’ on Saturday night. I suspect that with the clocks going forwards I won’t have gone to bed before the race starts.. 😈

Marketing F1 as usual.

i think what has been done is legal. teams always try and bend rules in order to gain a performance advantage, it just happens that Williams, Brawn and Toyota happened to exploit one of the areas that has a larger gain. I hope that we don’t see Button win his second ever GP, for it to be taken away from him in an appeal court in Paris in a few weeks time.

Maybe thats why Richard Branson is reportedly flying out to Melbourne to ensure his Virgin livery is splashed all over the car prior to his drivers getting on the podium. having seen the car at the barcelona test a few weeks ago, the pace appears to be real.

Max Moseley will sort it all out, he will send his personal ‘private technicians’ to ‘WHIP’ all the team principles and engineers into line

It was reported lunchtime on Radio 1 that the complaints have been thrown out. Good thing too, maybe now F1 might get a bit more interesting. Still can’t hold a candle to Touring Cars, tho’.

F1 has always been about teams being pretty sneaky. It’s a good thing.

There will always be other teams in a huff and complaining. Just like real life.

This year will be interesting I hope.

FFS its just a marketing thing to get people to talk about and watch F1 FFS!

@zaskar, well it’s worked ‘cos i’m talking about it and will be watching!