The "demise" of the high street.

So it’s doom and gloom as another big company goes belly up, not moving with the times, the Internet etc etc.
However when I go into derby it always seems very busy, are these people there because they have nothing better to do?
One thing that has put me off “going in to town” was the bloody parking fees. I couldn’t believe how much it cost for a quick nip in to take two Christmas presents back, is this also killing the high street?

Its not doom and gloom – we all love the internet, its convenience, cheap prices etc.

The high street just has not kept up, the council is even further behind with parking fees, rates, planning laws etc.

Town centers are often full of people, none seem to contribute to the economy though 😉

I distinctly remember a ‘shopping as a hobby’ rant on here some years ago that had me emptying coffee out of my keyboard. I am reminded of it whenever I have to venture near to town on a Saturday (not often).

But then, I work in Birmingham City Centre, so I can pop to the shops at lunchtime throughout the week if I need/want. Usually it’s a tour of the bike shops to remind myself how ridiculously expensive cycle gear is, especially when bought from a shop.

I’ve been wondering how long Waterstones will be around for, the number of Kindles on the train these days far far outweigh the number of paper books.

The only thing that is more convenient to shop for these days is clothing, as the need to try it on cannot easily be met by on-line retailers. So the high street turns into clothes shops and “american baby-drink selling chains” (gotta love Victoria Coren!)

Town centers are often full of people, none seem to contribute to the economy though

+1

think about the shop lifters..
What they gonna do with no high street?
Another industry ruined by the tories. 🙂

Rent and rates are killing the high street – the costs are incredible even for an OK location in a small market town. How new retailers get started is beyond me.

think about the shop lifters..
What they gonna do with no high street?

…this is what PayPal Gift was invented for – scrotes don’t even need to leave the house now!

Have town centres been held back by punitive business rates and customer parking? Its no wonder customers and businesses do business via the internet to a warehouse of the M1 if councils have priced us out of town.

Council rates are tiny compared with the shop floor rent.

From speaking to people affected it is very much business rates that cripple small independent retailers.

A mate was looking at opening a very small cafe in Oxford centre. Not a prime spec, but an ok location. The rents worked out, over 365 days, at over £350 per day! So.. business rates on top of that, heating, staff costs. No wonder the high streets ****ed!!!

Council rates are tiny compared with the shop floor rent.

Maybe for big stores (I have no experience of that) but for small high-street shops it is very common these days for tentants to negotiate massive discounts on the rent because there are very few takers (dependant on area obviously) and clearly the landlord doesn’t want to be stuck with an empty building. However there is no possibility for negotiation on the rates.

There needs to be a further movement towards converting a lot of High St. commercial property into residential.
There’s not the demand there once was so it needs to change if they want to continue to have a dynamic, pleasant environment.

Someone my age (mid 40’s) tweeted earlier that the High Street is the steam trains for our generation. I did wonder if we’ll end up with groups of middle aged men running shops on a voluntary, not for profit, basis just so they can go and have a rummage amongst rare vinyl and clack cd cases together as they riffle through the stands.

My 2p;

We’ll look back with nostalgia at what used to be, what we grew up with, but we’ll embrace the new paradigm with gusto.

Our children will just grow up assuming it was always like this and, in 40 years time, when everyone has a 3d printer at home that produces 90% of what they need become all nostalgic for the delivery van bearing the fruits of their online shopping activity.

When we were very young, we were burgled whilst on holiday. All they took was clothes, as people didn’t have all the modern gadgets and electrical goods. The whole high street / shopping hobby thing has been a very recent trend, so it’s not like the high street has been like this for ever. Go back to the 70s and disposable incomes were tiny compared to now.

Enterprise always moves faster than government / councils.

Been a store owner for close on 25 years and survived through a couple of resessions..

Couple of facts..

The are some fantastic deals available on high street locations at present if you are willing to negotiate hard.

Business rates are not killing the smallest traders as for the past few years there has been a thing called ‘Small business rate relief’ Any premises with a rateable value of less that £12k qualify. I’ve paid zero rates for the past few years.

The main cause of high street destruction can be put straight at the local authorities hatred of the car.

Over zealous traffic wardens. Expensive Local authority parking. Private land clampers. THIS is what has killed the town centre.

The facts speak for themselves.. During the small period between the police stopping parking control and the local authority taking it over trade boomed for high streets. Personally our trade literally quadrupled. It was chaotic yes, but the town was buzzing with a vibrance I’ve never seen before. Fast forward a couple of years after the local council introduced the parking stasi.. the place is an absolute ghost town.. the worst I’ve seen in 25 years. Mid week the wardens outnumber the shoppers. Yet the council refuse to accept the facts.

Nothing wrong with the High Street – John Lewis, Apple, Hollister, others, seem to be doing alright there.

You just have to get it right.

For the last year or so, walking into HMV felt like walking into a dirty teenager’s bedroom.

They should’ve focused on selling music, and worked out what a music shop should feel like. Music lovers prefer buying albums in a shop to iTunes etc, that’s a fact. They shouldn’t have died, but they didn’t have the insight or guts to re-envision themselves. So now we have more spare units for overpriced coffee outlets (until someone else with funding and vision gives us an alternative high street – which I’m looking forward to seeing).

For the last year or so, walking into HMV felt like walking into a dirty teenager’s bedroom.

They should’ve focused on selling music, and worked out what a music shop should feel like.

Yup, look how cool it used to look!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/gallery/2013/jan/15/hmv-oxford-street-store-gallery

I’ve been wondering how long Waterstones will be around for, the number of Kindles on the train these days far far outweigh the number of paper books.

Waterstones now sell Kindles and have free WiFi so Kindle owners can download new titles for Amazon. Apparently, Turkeys are going to open Christmas pop-up shops next November.

The main cause of high street destruction can be put straight at the local authorities hatred of the car.

I thought all the studies showed the opposite? What brings in customers to town centres is pedestrianisation and making them more accessible on foot/bike/bus?

Fast forward a couple of years after the local council introduced the parking stasi.. the place is an absolute ghost town

drives (literally) people to out-of-town megacentres. My local town has free parking on a Monday and the town is packed, why on earth they havent learned and made it free all week long is a mystery.

Yup, look how cool it used to look!

How cool is that? I’d go out of my way to buy music there.

I thought all the studies showed the opposite? What brings in customers to town centres is pedestrianisation and making them more accessible on foot/bike/bus?

Local authority funded studies maybe?

The facts in the real world are very different. Take my town for example.. It’s a market town that for centuries has pulled in the shoppers from all the villages around. People here need to drive, yet it’s been made so restrictive in town that they now drive to the nearest out of town shopping centre as to park in town is expensive and very risky should you inadvertently spend a little too long in a shop.

drives (literally) people to out-of-town megacentres. My local town has free parking on a Monday and the town is packed, why on earth they havent learned and made it free all week long is a mystery.

Because somebody, somehwere has to pay for the upkeep of those car parks (and building new ones if required).Out of town megacentres can afford to have free parking because the land is cheap and they make huge profits, town centres don’t have either of these luxuries.

Introducing car parking charges to out of town megacentres should be a priority*, not encouraging more cars and congestion into town centres that don’t have the infrastructure to cope.

*Not that this will ever happen, Tesco et al have more power over Local Authorities than they do over National Govt. and that’s an awful lot!

Hopefully aunts and uncles the world over, will now realise something the rest of us have known for some time:
Gift vouchers make a crap present.

Introducing car parking charges to out of town megacentres should be a priority*, not encouraging more cars and congestion into town centres that don’t have the infrastructure to cope.

Oh for a little congestion.. or even a couple of extra cars… please.

Oh for a little congestion.. or even a couple of extra cars… please

Time to firebomb your nearest megacentre then!*

Alternatively, time to start moving the advantages away from the massive corporations and back to the smaller scale stuff. Trouble is, this would require a big change in society! Unfortunetly, the obvious stuff like free town centre parking effects short term advantages for longer term disadvatages. You can’t win.

* Not a serious suggestion

Out of town megacentres can afford to have free parking because the land is cheap and they make huge profits, town centres don’t have either of these luxuries.

But if no one can make money in town centres the land has little value, commercial property only has value if it can be used to make a profit.

But if no one can make money in town centres the land has little value, commercial property only has value if it can be used to make a profit.

True. I suppose the logical conclusion of that is then: let the market decide = let the highstreets die (from a commercial/retail perspective) and let megacentres and the Internet take up the slack.

Unfortunately local politics, transport and communication links, commercial power and similar un-quanbtifiables distort the market quite dramatically. There’s also the human inertia element, people like High Streets, but also like the convenince of megcentres and how these two choices balance out from person to person and place to place is nigh on impossible to predict…

…basically it’s all very complicated, but probably boils down to High Streets have to offer something that megacentres can’t and vice versa. If they engage in out right competition then one will die, likely to be the HIgh Street…

I blame the red-tops

The town of Bury took the decision about 15 years ago to clean up and roof over the disgusting 70s shopping streets, effectively turning the town centre into a huge mall. They supported the “famous” market and provided a decent car park. For years the town centre was hopping; always busy and clean, warm and dry and a pleasant place to go.

Then they built a new area about 200 yards away at the other end of the town and allowed Marks & Spencer to relocate to a new building there. The result? Shops are closing in Bury town centre because M&S has taken away all the footfall.

Muppets.

Because somebody, somehwere has to pay for the upkeep of those car parks (and building new ones if required).

If the town centres are busy, the money can be taken from the business rates. If people drive elsewhere, hey presto, empty shops, charity shops and no business rates.

Then they built a new area about 200 yards away at the other end of the town and allowed Marks & Spencer to relocate to a new building there. The result? Shops are closing in Bury town centre because M&S has taken away all the footfall.

Now I knew Bury was shit, but that M&S can drive its fortunes is a new low

If the town centres are busy, the money can be taken from the business rates. If people drive elsewhere, hey presto, empty shops, charity shops and no business rates.

Exactly.. There is no level playing field at the moment. There has to be either free parking in town centres or similar charges/restrictions at out of town centres.

At present we have local authorities which appear to be actively cleansing the town centres of trade with their deluded transport policies.

Surely the demise of bigger shops on the high street is just a continuation of a process which has been on going for years? The larger shops having put almost all the smaller shops out of business many years ago, the even bigger shops are now putting them out of business – it’s not the demise of the high street, it’s capitalism working exactly how it should.

it’s capitalism working exactly how it should.

Nail. Head.

The question of whether it’s good or not is still open though.

I like my towns transport policy, encourages cycling and use of buses. I can buy most stuff online, go into town for resteraunts, shows etc.

The only thing that is more convenient to shop for these days is clothing, as the need to try it on cannot easily be met by on-line retailers.

Although the increasing availability of convenient, postage-paid returns is challenging that.

Go back to the 70s and disposable incomes debt was tiny compared to now.

fixed

What will happen to all the properties on the high street though?? At this rate over half of the average high street will be vacant in 10 years. Our town has maybe 20% of shops empty presently. We have saturated our need for charity shops/tattooists and pound shops. Will the whole cycle restart its self when it all goes bust and rates plummet, thus enticing the boutique and smaller bushiness back in or will it be too late as the spaces get sold to developers who turn them into apartments?

What will happen to all the properties on the high street though

Use it to address the homeless problem