[Closed] Shortish travel bike for fun (trails and 4x)

The rook is an excellent frame and surprisingly versatile if you like lively, playful bikes.

I've ridden a rook at Antur Stiniog and it was great. It's burly so will take the hits but, stable on the rough stuff but has a very responsive, lively feel to it.

A great do-all bike in my opinion. It's going to be my next build.

That's good to hear. Would you recommend the longer frame size for extra versatility? (I'm about 5' 10")

Any chance of getting a dropper post to fit on one?

Yeah, the large is still small. If you were going for pure dirt jumping, slope style type riding then you'd get away with the small but for extra versatility and some climbing capability go for the large. I'm 6'3 so no matter what i was always going to opt for the large.
Can't remember what the size of the seat tube is but as far as I can remember there isn't any cable routing for a dropper but zip ties can resolve that. I'd double check on the dropper post thing with CRC or NP first.

Yeah, I might do that. I'm not too worried about having to cable tie a dropper post cable. As long as I can fit a dropper post that when extended will be the right height for me that's all that matters.

I'm only about 5' 10" so a long is probably a good fit.

I had a quick look about and I see a set of xfusion slants with travel adjust 160mm to 130mm which look like a great match for this frame.

For anyone else into this type of bike, I have a Kona Howler frame for sale...

Thanks!

Anyone else ridden one of these frames?

I've been looking at the sizing chart for the rook and it has the regular size frame for 5'3" - 5'11" (inside leg 28"-32") and the long frame for 5'11" - 6'7" (inside leg 32"-36").

As I'm 5'10" that puts me on the top end of the regular size. The inside leg measurements make no sense for this frame as the seat tube length is the same on both sizes, and the only real difference being the top tube (TT effective 576 vs 596) which affects reach. (401 vs 421)

As this is primarily a slopestyle frame I'm assuming that that means the sizing is designed to be smaller.

I have a meta 4x from 2010 (I think) and its so much fun. I'm only 5'6" and its a bit on the small side for me, so think about going larger if you get one.

Hi, I have recently bought one of these frames and I'm waiting for a few more parts to build it, could anyone explain how I fit the headset with the dummy gyro spacer ? How is it laid out ? Thanks.

Dmr bolt?

Someone posted this earlier...

http://outlet.upgradebikes.co.uk/Outlet/Clearance/Frames/DMR/DMR-Bolt-Long-2

I went through this a month or so ago and I ended up getting an Orange Blood as it's not too specific a frame. Im very happy with it too as it rides much better than I imagined it would.

fd3chris - Member
I went through this a month or so ago and I ended up getting an Orange Blood as it's not too specific a frame. Im very happy with it too as it rides much better than I imagined it would.

I've looked at the Orange blood but those frames aren't easy to come by and are very expensive when they do.

I've got a Rampant, it's a great fun bike but can be a struggle as an all-rounder as you can't fit a front mech. Mines a short (I'm 5' 8") with a 50mm stem and with 1x9 steep climbs are a bitch 😀 +more for technical climbing. Just gone 1x10 with 2 lower climbing gears, but not used it yet - hoping I won't have lost too much in the smaller cogs. Quite a lot of the struggle is down to a short reach, but I've survived the climbfest of the Dyfi Enduro on it.

I looked through loads of similar and the only ones that ticked all the boxes for me were this and a modern Spesh SX, but seeing as they don't come around too often rampant it was. Costly and does have some bushings issues (although not very bad), but suspension design is v. good in the chop & for pedalling and does drops & jumps nicely. Very strong for its weight. Descends well, but with a pretty short wheelbase there are times when I've felt I'm approaching going a little too fast. SX is claimed to be more stable; Rampant to have more pop.

Would love to have a go on some similar bikes to see how they compare - have seen few frames come up at decent prices, but it'd be an expensive waste past-time 🙂 Most tempted by Meta 4xs - seen a few recently & think they can take a front mech...

The Meta 4X is tempting but long frames don't come up often and once again they are very costly.
Last one I saw was £600 for a 2009 long frame. That's only £40 less than a brand new 2013 Rook frame from CRC.

The most fun bike I've ever ridden is a Morewood Ndiza ST. Goes round corners like... something that goes round corners really well.

I would recommend, and it so happens that I'm going to sell mine to help fund a house move - none of my local riding really suits it :'(

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Despite the rarity and cost, I'd recommend a Blood as well. A riot of a bike to ride. Keep wanting to find an excuse to add one to my collection!

Is that Morewood the one with the adjustable pivot?

I had a Blur 4X and it was as good as the hype suggests. They tend to be ~£400 which is pretty damn good value for money IMHO. That said, it had its downsides:
a) they eat bearings. A lot of bearings. And bushings so get yourself a bushing and bearing kit.
b) my medium felt quite cramped on longer rides even for me at 5'8"

But, it was a 30.9mm seattube so dropper compatible and worked well setup 1x9.

I fancied a change to something a little more suited to longer rides and had wanted a Five for ages and I'm glad I changed. Went from a medium 4X to a 16" 2012 Five (the slack one with the taper headtube, maxle rear end etc) and angles wise I think it was pretty much exactly the same but with an extra inch in the top tube and 2" on the wheelbase. Feels as good in the air and mucking around but so much more stable as the speed picks up.

Don't rule out smaller trail frames like that...

It's strange that they don't seem to make these bikes anymore.
If there were new updated versions e.g. if the Orange Blood with a tapered compatible head tube and 30.9mm seat tube I would definitely be considering it as a possible new frame purchase.

Maybe I should be looking more at the Transition Double, as it meets the above so gives greater component compatiblity. Looking at the geometry/frame measurements it is reasonably similar to the NP Rook, so that would probably make the Rook the wiser purchase.

That Morewood looks awesome.

Real shame there arent more around.

I have a Blood as my main bike and it is my favourite bike since my last favourite! 😉 Great fun and quite versatile with an adjustable fork, it loves to jump!

I'm after something similar to match up to a set of pikes I've been hoarding... Just want something that is a blast to ride and not a massive chore to pedal back up.

Another Blood owner here too. Amazed they stop making them. Rook and Bolt look fantastic value now however. Whatever you end up with it is bound to be huge fun.

Specialized sx 2003 supercross for those that remember. ...... 😀

The only thing that really holds me back from the Bolt is the BB pivot, which will make the pedally bits a bit of a pain especially if it starts to get steep and you try to put some power through the pedals.

I'm not sure how well the Rook's suspension layout works but it looks similar to the the layout they use on their Mega frames and they seem to work ok.

Maybe I should just give up and buy something like an orange five, throw a 50mm stem on it, travel adjust forks and go that route (Wouldn't be miles away from the Morewood above).
A medium frame with a short 50mm stem like that could help make it pretty chuckable.

BB pivot frames don't bob as much as people who've never ridden them say they do. They do however benefit from smooth pedaling and a wobble ring chainring.

The only reason I got rid of mine was it was too heavy & too short. Other than that it was a beast

... I still have a 2003 Specialized SX ... still just as awesome as ever 🙂

The only thing that really holds me back from the Bolt is the BB pivot

Loads of these kinds of frames have a concentric BB - it was something that made me rule out a lot of potentials. As thepodge says though I've never ridden one 🙂 I defnly mash the pedals at the start of descents and wouldn't mind experiencing the real-world difference and knowing if I'd feel like I was on a pogo-stick.

Maybe I should just give up and buy something like an orange five, throw a 50mm stem on it, travel adjust forks and go that route (Wouldn't be miles away from the Morewood above).

In my experience there's a huge difference between how a dedicated 4x frame and a five will handle.

A 4x frame will be very, very nimble and 'snappy' for want of a better word - bordering on twitchy. A five will feel much more stable, but much less manoeuvrable.

Whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on exactly what you want to use it for I guess.

Blur4x is probably my favourite ever frame. Really regret selling my last one. The only thing that I'd have changed- if you stood upto pedal and happened to be on rough-stuff it got unsettled. I think the VPP version II sorted the tiny niggles of the early VP?

One thing that is bothering me a bit is the lack of good (relatively cheap) 1-1/8" straight steerer forks availabe these days, which alot of these frames only support.

As I said earlier in this thread I reckon a set of Xfusion Slants 160-130mm travel adjust would be a great fork for a potential fun trial bike like this, but it only comes in tapered.

Meta hip-hop?
cove hooker
and yep, Specialized SX (not [i]trail[/i])
saw one on ebay u.s. not long ago, lokked weird with dropper and seat up, but they sound spot on. i'm stuck on the meta hip-hop at the mo.

pivot m4x, 66.5 ha, 12.5 bb. 120 font, 100mm rear comes in long and short but rare and expensive.
unfortunately it has sat in the corner unused for a year… hopefully soon

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160-130mm travel

The handling could be gash at 160. Have coil Pikes (shortish a to c) and at 140 my bike's only good for drops, for anything else 100 - 120 is great.

pivot m4x

Rob Hilton - Member
160-130mm travel
The handling could be gash at 160. Have coil Pikes (shortish a to c) and at 140 my bike's only good for drops, for anything else 100 - 120 is great

When I first spotted those forks I was looking at the specs of the NP Rook which is designed around 110mm - 160mm (head angle is 69-66 degrees).

Looked at the Pivot M4X but that's way too much money for me for just a frame.

Looked at the Commencal Hip Hop frame suggested above as well and its rather expensive as well, though about a grand cheaper than the pivot lol.

There's no way it'll do that range of travel comfortably, the frame may be strong enough, but it'll have been designed at 110; increasing the length of the forks will have a noticeable impact.

Rob Hilton - Member

There's no way it'll do that range of travel comfortably, the frame may be strong enough, but it'll have been designed at 110; increasing the length of the forks will have a noticeable impact.

I'd say you're probably right. This is what the Nukeproof blurb says;

The geometry of the Rook is optimised for a 110mm travel fork giving a 13” BB height and 69-degree head angle. Running the frame with a 160mm fork raises the BB to 13.75” and slackens the head angle to a trail-taming 66 degrees.

Rampants are ace fun. I just sold mine as had a bike cull of big bike/small bike to just 1 mid travel bike.

I am 5.9 and had a short with dual position pikes at 110/140 so made climbing OK...

went round corners like nothing else and really nimble...

shame I sold it really as perfect for riding here in the Surrey Hills.

We'vn mainly been talking about 4x abd slopestyle bikes that can work for doing some trails, but to look at this from a different angle, (and hopefully find more frame possibilities) what trail bikes are snappy, lively and not hopeless doing a bit of dual slalom/4x fun?

problem with that idea is that trail bikes are going slacker and slacker at the front which doesn't necessarily lend its self to snappy & lively handling

what trail bikes are snappy, lively and not hopeless doing a bit of dual slalom/4x fun?

Ones that are too small for you 😀

If you're going down that route then look at older (less slack) frames.

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren't great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they've all gone tapered.

thepodge - Member

problem with that idea is that trail bikes are going slacker and slacker at the front which doesn't necessarily lend its self to snappy & lively handling

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren't great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they've all gone tapered.

Probably not, though I did the second half of a 24 solo at 24/12 on a Blur 4X with light-ish wheels and big fast tyres without any issues. Then again the Blur is maybe on the trail side of things compared to more focussed 4x bikes.

Makes an ace trail bike btw. I don't 4x so I have no idea how it works for that.

This seems a bit of a mine field.
4x bikes really aren't great at the pedally bits due to size, suspension design, weight etc and almost all of them have 1-1/8 head tubes which rules out the possibility of putting a good recent modern fork on there as they've all gone tapered.

M4X is great on the pedally bits, Good seat angle, good suspension design and is light as ****.
I'm 510 a 400mm seat post is only just long enough if you wanna keep the bottom below the top tube.

Just to add.

Modern 4x bike are a little slacker than the older ones.
(4x track have gotten faster) At least that's the case with my fs and ht.

pastcaring - Member
Just to add.

Modern 4x bike are a little slacker than the older ones.
(4x track have gotten faster) At least that's the case with my fs and ht.

Basically I'm looking for a really fun full suspension bike for having a blast on a 4X track, dual slalom, down hill and trails in general. Something thats involving rather than just soaks up the bumps.

It is however going to have to be a budget build, so frames at £1000 or £2000+ for the pivot M4X are simply too expensive for my budget build.

So I'm going to have to compromise somewhere.
I've been trying my best to look for frames that can take a tapered steerer (as that gives me the best fork compatibility and upgrade options plus option for an angle set).

I'm not ruling out trail frames if they are fun (and possible budget options).
I was even looking at the 16.5" Santa Cruz Nickel frame someone on here is selling and wondering what that would be like.

For playing on a 4X track there's nothing better than a HT! Do you already have a trail bike? Get a 4X bike and a trail bike...no compromise!

nwill1 - Member

For playing on a 4X track there's nothing better than a HT! Do you already have a trail bike? Get a 4X bike and a trail bike...no compromise!

No unfortunately I don't have a trail bike atm. Only have a crappy hardtail atm.
I want to build up a fun full suspension bike (cheap'ish), but don't want something that handles like a tank and just plows through/over the terrain. Something reponsive, that can take the hits but will jump etc.

NS Soda? That's what I'm planning on getting when I can afford it. They look ideal. I loved my Scott Voltage but it was a bit short on the seat tube - the Soda looks like a similar sort of bike but a bit bigger.

If you're short and don't mind a heavy bike with a long seatpost then the Voltage is worth a look. Only sold mine as I needed the money and the aforementioned size issue.

thanks for keeping this topic alive gaz : )
you're getting all my thinking done for me

What I did with the Kona Howler (that's for sale!) was slotted in a 190mm eye to eye shock instead of the stock 200mm Fox Van. That dropped the BB a bit and slackened it too. I then put 120mm forks on it to pull the BB back up a touch and slacken it a bit more. Made it into a great short travel bike for razzing round the woods on. Sounds like that sort of tinkering is what you need to maybe do to get something in budget but handling how you want.

jamiesilo - Member

thanks for keeping this topic alive gaz : )
you're getting all my thinking done for me

Lol, yeah, I just want to get all the thinking over and done with so I can get on trying to find/buy what I want.

I like the kona howler idea. People have done similar with original trance frames

do you not fancy his howler gaz?

what bothered me with frames like the rook is the weight+strength
i just don't need it to be strong enough to ride crankworks. i ride a pitch at the moment and it's probably a bit more bike than i need, tho i appreciate it.

but then i got a charge blender in december; in my eyes the hardtail version of the bike we're talking about here. not light at all. but you really don't notice. still climbs better than a full suss. it's a small frma aimed at dirt jump, poss 4x etc, as well as trail if you like that sort of bike. with a dropper post it rides and climbs just fine and again, is more bike than i need. but i like tha style of it. it only served to convince me more that i want something like a rook.
tho it would be nice if it weighed a bit less...

AND, at risk of repeating ad infinitum, what i [i]really[/i] liked the look of were those Ragley full suss bikes that never got past prototype stage.

if only some enlightened designer would catch on and make something like this, tho i think the meta hip-hop is close for me. perhaps now brant R's got the Codiene out of his system (haha) he'll be looking for something new to get his teeth into? :0

so 100mm back, 140mm front, and possibly 650b-able please brant et al!
thanks!
jimmer

Transition Bandit 26. 130 out back and can take up to 160 up front, though most folk run theirs with 140 - 150, quite a short fun playable bike.

Cotic considered doing a 100/140 but said it wasn't worth it, might as well carry round the extra 40 or 50mm

Bandit 26 is fun! Watched a video yesterday that confirmed my suspicion as to why it is so fun, the video showed it repeatedly 'backing into' turns, a bit like lift off oversteer in a hot hatch or a supermoto motorbike!

Ive seen some production drawings of a 120 rear 140 front. that with a change of shock and hardware can be run 145 rear 160 front.
If it ever makes it to production it would be my perfect uk/alps bike

Well if today's trip out on the bike taught me anything, it's that a basically xc hardtail (giant talon) doesn't really handle that great in the air when jumping over relatively small jumps on a dual slalom course.
Head angle feels all wrong (though the 740mm bars and 75mm stem help), plus I feel too stretched out even on a medium frame.

Maybe I should just find a small giant trance frame, put a 50mm stem on it, some longer forks on it to slacken it out and put the rest of my parts on that to thrash about on..?

After all that should be relatively fun/nimble and cheap, though not perfect.

yep gaz, that's what i pretty much decided today, tho i'm not going to do it and time soon, so here you go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261448343998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

jamiesilo - Member

yep gaz, that's what i pretty much decided today, tho i'm not going to do it and time soon, so here you go:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261448343998?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
br />

Hmm... I wonder will a medium be small enough to chuck about. My talon's a medium and it really isn't a chuckable size tbh.

I had also thought maybe about something like a giant reign frame (a bit slacker than a trance and more fork size options...), or even something like a santa cruz nickel. lol I swear I hate bike frame hunting.

You're probly right. I'll get looking for a small for you then 😉

The reign has quite a bit more travel, I wouldn't expect it to feel too snappy

Pyga Onefourty650? Don't have one myself, but it tops the list for me, and I think I've got similar requirements to you.

Here's what brought my attention to it:

[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/product/review-pyga-industries-onetwenty650-frame-only-13-47641/ ]Linky - Review from BikeRadar[/url]

Probably going against popular STW opinion here, but how would a 2012 Lapierre Zesty 314 frame fair at this kind of mixed riding/fun?
It's supposed to have a lively feel.

I know Lapierre's usually get refered to as snapierre's on here.

Looks like this thread may have died, which is a shame cos it was my favourite for some time. I think it deserves a pic of the new & interestingly shaped Morpheus Vimana Slope

[img] [/img]

its nice but i'd prefer this

[img] [/img]

The 100mm travel bike is designed specifically for slalom and 4X racing, with a low, 311mm bottom bracket height, 419mm chainstays, and a 68 degree head angle.

You might consider an Intense Tazer VP (coincidentally I'm selling mine 😀 ) - low, 1.5HT, 3.5-4" travel. 68 degree HA but since it's a full 1.5" headtube you can fit an anglest - I ran mine at -1 degree with 125mm forks. Lovely!

@ thepodge - Hell yeah!

Thought Spesh had sacked the SX line off a couple of years ago?
Clearly I don't got my finger on the pulse 🙂

Wonder if any will make it across the pond?

Thought Spesh had sacked the SX line off last/couple of years ago?

just stopped importing it.

Didn't know they ever really did import them? Didn't the p-slope take it's place for a while?

Anyway...
http://www.freeborn.co.uk/specialized-sx-frame-26-2014

NOM! But I aint paying that for one 😕

yeh. i reckon the spesh sx takes it! why do they keep numbers so limited?
is it purely financial? surely can't be to keep it somehow special/ desireable? surely folk would buy them?

Rob H, that morpheus thing look wacko, not in a bad way
but those drop outs looks proper wrong. take it they're not minium?!

I think they keep numbers low because compared to a normal stumpy / evo / enduro they probably sell hardly anything

those drop outs looks proper wrong

You're telling me! They claim to have a way better than average failure rate on their frames due to only releasing to market a proto frame that lasts a slopestyle season. Which might be marketing bollox.

At the time I got my Rampant only 2 had been ridden to death - both, I believe, by Mike Montgomery; which seems acceptable 🙂

I don't think any company would see much return on bikes like these as they're so "off-trend" most people wouldn't consider them. They also take a bit of effort to get the most from and many folks aren't into that.