I’ve been using XT for gears since 1993 and this is the first time I’ve felt like changing.

Two new drivetrains this year – XT and X9 HammerSchmidt on one bike and SRAM X5 shifters with X9 rear mech on another. The XT needs constant tweaking which is I think due to the shadow rear mech getting the odd nudge from sticks etc. Once the X9 rear mech got past an initial sticky bit near the small sproket it has not needed touching.
Is it just me or is the XT Shadow rear mech a little delicate? (I’ve heard bad things about the Saint… what about XTR?)

The X5 shifters are a bit plasticy but I quite like them, the X9 HS shifter is lovely. I like the XT shifter feel but the little click it gives feels vague compared to the solid clunk of the X9/X5.

I thought I would be changing the SRAM stuff to XT but I am seriously thinking of swinging the other way… until I saw the cost of X9 and X0!!!

Is X9 the XT equivalent… and X0 the XTR… in which case XX wtf???

Serious questions though – is SRAM the better option now and does it last as long or longer than XT? Can the rear mech take the odd dunt better than XT?

So… X9 vs XO vx XT vs XTR?

can, worms, open !

I made the switch about 3 years ago. I think SRAM takes a lot less looking after and is much more reliable in the mud due to the one to one actuation. I also prefer the clunk. My take on the comparison between the various categories is that x9 is XT equivalent, x0 was a bit posher than old Xtr, but about the same as new (although in true STW style I haven’t tried the latest 10speed stuff, so don’t really know). In my experience of the 9 speed, x7 works just as reliably and well as x9 or x0 if you’re not too fussed about weight or looks.

Good info bol – confirming my thoughts.

Had XT & X9 on different bikes over the years & agree with bol points above, the only thing I would add, is the jockey wheels on XT kit seems to last longer than on X9.

Had XT until I got my current bike 2.5 years ago which had X9 all the way through. Wouldn’t go back now – I like the slightly more “agricultural”, positive feel of X9. Never seems to need adjusting even through muddy winters, and doesn’t mind getting the odd clout on a rock

Yeah I went all SRAM a couple of years ago for the reasons mentioned.

Have now gone back all Shimano though because I really liked the feel of the current XT and SLX shifting.

Selling X9 shifters and mechs if you want to convert on the cheap, email in profile.

I went back to Shimano. Much prefer the feel to this of SRAM. The only alternative to Rapidfires would for me Gripshift X0.

I have found the exact opposite. I went back to Shimano after find SRAM wore out about 3 times as quickly. I’ve never used a shadow mech however, which perhaps says how much longer I’m finding Shimano to last. I used to be lucky to get a year out of the SRAM mechs as play in the pivots would develop very quickly and I was always swapping jockey wheels.

I found that cable stretch meant that you had to adjust Shimano after the inital install but not with SRAM, after that there was no difference.

My experience of SRAM stuff is that it wears out, or breaks much quicker and more readily than Shimano stuff. Also, I HATE the feel of SRAM trigger shifters, as they feel so clunky, but also I really don’t like the positioning and movement of the smaller trigger on SRAM shifters compared to Shimano.

Years ago, I used SRAM ESP mechs with gripshift for ages as it was what I had got used to. When I finally made the shift over to Shimano rapidfire in 2002, well I’ve not looked back since. I’ve ridden many bikes with newer X7 and X9 and really not liked it, and I know those with bikes with SRAM on that it just does not last as long as Shimano.

The one thing I will say though is that I prefer SRAM chains to Shimano ones, mainly cos of the powerlink though.

Brand new, nothing between them. I think over time, the floating jockey wheel on shimano mechs keeps the shifting a bit sweeter for longer. That’s about it really I reckon. Rest is just personal, some like the smoother lighter shimano action others prefer the firm more ‘industrial’ feel of SRAM.

Sram is nowhere near as reliable in the long term.

Sram shifter internals are pretty poor quality and more prone to dieing (especially front shifters) than Shimano ones.

The main pivot in Sram mechs goes floppy surprisingly fast, resulting in a sloppy mech that wobbles and can quite easily end up in your spokes.

The cage on Sram mechs can pop off at the drop of a hat.

The jockey wheels on Sram do not last as long as Shimano.

We get a lot of it in the shop, there is always more Sram failures than Shimano.

Go XT.

Hmm – so my X-9 rear mech that’s done 7000 miles with only two replacement jockey wheels was a fluke then? Replaced last night but there’s still life left in it.

And my 970 cassette that did 4000 miles was lucky?

And my x-7 shifter (now x-9) that shifted perfectly for 4500 miles were an oddity?

And the SRAM 991 and 971 chains I’ve had that last 1000s of miles are also “lucky?”

The guy that sorts my bike works as a race mechanic for a various road and MTB teams (he has a column appearing in a well known mag soon too) and rates SRAM mechs, shifters, chains and cassettes well above Shimano.

I’ve used both and find SRAM shifts more positively.

Had an X0 rear mech fitted last night (was X-9) and the shifting speed and quality is stunning.

Shimano do some bits better – front mechs, chainsets (IMO) in particular but overall, SRAM kick their ar5es.

Seen on what we get in the shop, Sram is statistically more likely to wear out quicker.

Not all of it does mind, but it depends if you’re happy risking it with an inferior product.

In your opinion.

In the opinion of a guy who teaches bike mechanics, has been enduro racing for 20 years, has been asked to run a training academy for mechanics and is very well known in the industry, SRAM is better for most parts.

See a balanced opinion – SRAM are not 100% better for everything, just certain (most) parts.

Do you get some pay back for flogging Shimano kit or something? 😉

Surf-Mat – Member
In your experience

There fixed it for you. What you are spouting is opinion.

HTH

Its ok, no need to get worked up over two component manufacturers. You have nothing to do with them apart from the fact you buy their products.

I think shimano are more solid but I like the clunky click of the sram stuff.

There fixed it for you. What you are spouting is opinion.

HTH

Indeed it is hence me not saying anything about FACTS. We are both speaking from opinion, I just think the guy I know is likely to be more experienced than 99% on here who spout endless guff.

So Spoke calls all SRAM parts inferior, I balance it by saying I think SRAM are genuinely superior for most parts (not all) yet I get stick for it from two clueless halfwits?

Hmm – that seems fair. 🙄

Thanks all – not making things any clearer but all information recieved and considered.

From my XT and X9 HS shifter experience I prefer the two way release of the XT. Is XO any more ergonomic than X9?

X0 ten speed stuff is more pennies that XTR 😕

Had X9 on most of my recent bikes, really like it more then the XT that I had before. When my last bike was nicked I got XTR shadow instead. I missed the clear feeling that gears where being changed, there was that numbness to the XTR. However I got used to the ability to increase several gears at once very quickly and liked that.

A friend had an extra Saint derailleur. Put that on with the saint shifter and it’s more like SRAM. You need a bit more power to change gears, but it does it in a more clear way. Not really up there with SRAM IMO though.

I’ll probably get SRAM for my next bike, but the new Saints are close enough.

And my 970 cassette that did 4000 miles was lucky?

Serious question, Mat, how the hell do you get a cassette to last that long! 😯 I stuggle to get more than 1000-1200 miles out of one, no matter what brand or quality. Where do you ride? Are you an anal cleaner/chain changer?

———————————–

Personally I use SRAM on all 3 bikes. It’s a bit of a fluke really being as 2 of them came with it fitted.

My take on it is this – When I first tried SRAM X9 I thought it was better than 9sp XT of the time. I liked the fast, positive, clicky shifting and the 1:1 ratio really does help the indexing in sloppy conditions.

Then I put a full 2008 XT groupset on Mrs PPs Kona, which basically blows SRAM to pieces for shift speed and precision, and has a nice clicky feeling that I like. If I was speccing a bike from new now, I’d put XT on it, no doubt about it.

But I keep falling over cheap (And I mean dirt cheap to free) SRAM bits, so I just keep using it and it suits me just fine becasue I can swap it between bikes if I need to and it does still work well.

I reckon, these days, that higer end (Deore and above) Shimano is better than higer end (X7 and up) SRAM. It works better and definately the rear mechs last better (And replacement jockey wheels are cross compatible between XT/SLX/Deore which you can’t say of SRAM, meaning you can upgrade a Deore or downgrade XT if you’re broke!)

That said, I reckon SRAM make the best, toughest front mechs anywhere. I’ve got an old X-Gen front mech on my Inbred that is big, chunky, and utterly indestructable. It’s 4-5 years old and has literally only the tiniest amount of play in it now, whereas I’ve had an XT f.mech go sloppy in a month!

But low end stuff is a different kettle of fish. My 7sp commuter has SRAM SX4 on it, which works 90% as well as X9 and uses the same shifter layout. Cheaper Shimano stuff is NASTY by comparison…..

Having spent 8 years fixing, building & riding bikes, IME Shimano is more reliable.
Sorry if you don’t like that Mat, but just how it seems in the workshop & out with the guys who race (that I mechanic for anyway)
Have niggles with both, but seem to replace more actual broken & problematic SRAM components than Shimano, well, all except for chains.
Edit, sorry 8 years professionally fixing & building- a touch longer DIY & riding 😉

So Spoke calls all SRAM parts inferior, I balance it by saying I think SRAM are genuinely superior for most parts (not all) yet I get stick for it from two clueless halfwits?

To be fair Mat, everyone else is quoting their experience, you’re quoting the experience of some guy you met once. It seems a bit ironic that you disregard peoples opinions and call them “clueless”, when you have no thoughts of your own.

PP – yep, a bit anal on cleaning. Gets a good rinse and chain gets a thorough wipe down after every ride. Fully degrease the chain regularly too.

This was after killing a few drivetrains very quickly indeed through incorrect maintenance (doh!)!!

Got X-9 shifters, an X0 rear mech, 991 chain, 990 cassette at the moment and it has rifle bolt precision. However the Shimano LX front mech is original and still fine without any signs of needing replacing after 7000ish miles – truly amazing durability!

Toasty – he’s a good mate actually and I see him very regularly. I can pretty much guarantee he is more experienced than anyone on STW at fixing anything from Halfords specials to top end MTBs and road bikes. Oh and I’m quoting both MY OWN experience (I have a good mix of Shimano and SRAM kit on various bikes) and from someone else with a lot more cred than me.

🙄

Is it worth throwing 2×10 SRAM vs 3×10 Shimano into the debate? I’ve always liked Xtr cranks, but the front shifting on 2×10 is amazing. I’m sure the SRAM chainrings will wear out more quickly than the Xtr though…

My dads dad invented the derraileur. I can guarantee he has more experience with these things than anyone in the world.

He still thinks Sturmy Archer is best though.

Does anyone actually care?

Just get the mechs you fancy and can afford and go for a ride.

Oh, and my dad’s tougher than your dad. 😉

davidtaylforth – Member

My dads dad invented the derraileur. I can guarantee he has more experience with these things than anyone in the world.

He still thinks Sturmy Archer is best though

lol

I switched to sram about 7 years ago and at the time thought it was a big improvement on the xt stuff it replaced, anyway roll forward 6 years and the newer sram x9 stuff just doesn’t last as well!(3 sets of shifters,2 rh and 1 lh and 3 rear mechs all failed in an 11 month period).Back with xt and really happy seems to be lasting well but i would say sram requires les fettling!

It’s funny how things like this can spark such strong emotions in people. At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter, they both work very well.

Anyway, my experience was exactly what SpokeCycles said. The Mechs particularly got very floppy in a matter of months. I got to the point of hoping to get a year out of the lot. I eventually swapped to XTR thinking I’d give it a go for a year and it was just a bit more expensive than X9. It lasted much longer than one year and I continue to use Shimano since. Certainly don’t clean everything everyday, life is far too short. 🙄

Only 16 years experience though. Still I don’t remember SRAM all those years ago so can you really count them? I did run SACHS for a while, back in the day though, does that count? 😀

That SACHS stuff was top, now there’s a blast from the past. Did you have the gripshifters?

Sachs are now SRAM.

Echo Spokescycles, SRAM vs Shimano, no contest. Shimano wins everytime.

We get far more failures on SRAM parts, seeing as the vast majority of bikes come fitted with Shimano that speaks volumes.

As for Avid brakes, they make me lose the will to live when I have to try and get them to bleed/work correctly. Avid Elixirs I fitted yesterday, needed bleeding out of the box, I mean WTF is that about? £400 worth of brakes.

ziggy (been fixing bikes before some of you were born)

The only thing I’ve ever broken was a x7 rear mech. My Cham’s got shimano stuff on it now it’s lovely. I want to know how to get that much mileage from a cassette as well. I’m a lightweight and I get maybe 9 months out of one.

I sometimes wonder if cadence affects drivetrain wear rate.

On our club rides if someone has gear shift issues in is invariably with a SRAM setup.

For me the SRAM shifters are very bad ergonomicaly, and give me thumb problems after just a few shifts. However others find the action better than Shimano.

Just my 2p

Ziggy is right about avid brakes, terrible to work on. Think you always get a difference with people prefering one to the other. Personally xt shadow tends to get flimsy on rough stuff and i prefer the feel of the clunk on sram.

I did have the grip shifters. I liked the thicker section in the middle of bar. I still have thicker tougher skin on my hands from where the blisters healed. For some reason trigger shifters scared me at the time. I think I’ve still got a few bits and bobs from them in the shed from broken units.
SRAM aquired SACHS back in 97-98ish(and later Avid, Rock Shox, Zipp etc… It makes me laugh is you still hear people talk about SRAM because they are against “big corporations”).
I jumped on the SRAM triggers when they first came out and I liked them (the feel is different, you get to prefer either over time) but the whole lot was not lasting. Maybe I was changing cables less, but that was no biggie for me. 🙁

As for road gear, I notice a lot of cross riders are using SRAM shifters now and apparently the new Shimano stuff is terrible in the mud. So I may have to make a change unless Shimano sort they act out before I need to replace my STis…