There was one of those threads last night on the forum, now fortunately removed. A few of the comments about women, and trying to justify these as 'jokes' about what to do to women, were particularly unpleasant in the end. Unfortunately they were nothing new, and I've heard them before on hear, and as a result I'm just going to take some time out from this forum.
I've posted this for a few reasons. Not to repeat the comments which were said, (nor to have a 'flounce' 😉 ), but firstly to say thanks to a few people. Emsz (especially for having the guts to say it as it is), CG, TJ, Elf, Ernie, and CaptainFlashHeart (who apparently came in at the end). Thanks guys and girls for the support and for speaking out. Secondly to say thanks to the moderators of STW (most of whom I know are good guys anyway!) - the thread was removed really quickly, despite the late hour. You guys have a thankless task most of the time, so just to let you know that your intervention is much appreciated.
And also a bit of an explanation as to why I've now had enough. Last night's thread was a particularly bad example, but there is a pervasive sexism that runs through STW. It's only from a minority (and most of you guys and girls are great) but it is a constant drip, drip, drip of minor issues. For example, just over the last few days there's been some pretty sexist responses to a guy who asked about kissing his friend, and several threads that only refer to women based on how they look.
The moderators have been great and are constantly closing down on these threads, but its a bit like trying to control a pernacious weed, new threads just continually sprout up. And I am tired of coming across them. Yes, I could challenge some of the posters, but having previously had a 'it's her time of the month' response, I'm increasingly reluctant to do so.
I rarely walk away from things I that I think are discriminatory, as I think the only way to address them is to speak out. But I come on here for some time out, to laugh, have an occassional rant, and pick up answers to every possible question under the sun 🙂 But guys, please can we stop with the sexism? It's not 'lads banter', and it's not neccessary. It's still possible to have fun, banter, and humour without objectifying women.
Anyway, I have said enough. And as above, my thanks to those who have spoken out and supported me and emsz last night, and to the mod's closing inappropriate threads down.
Have fun peeps, and remember to ride your bikes now and again 🙂
Edit - and as per usual I still manage to post on the wrong forum!
Thats a real shame. Sorry to see you go Sue.
Well said Sue: I agree with you completely that the drip-drip of sexism (and homophobia) on the forum can be very alienating indeed. I'm sorry that you feel the need to walk away from the forum though.
Sorry to see you go as well.
I can understand your frustration. Its gets to me sometimes the casual misogyny that is accepted by some on here.
I have in the past made a fuss about it and got flamed badly for it so I can see why you feel as you do
never say never tho. have a break and return
mad middle aged men, mad middle aged women.
You might have a point - some of it is pretty horrid, but how do you cope in life outside of STW where simply withdrawing your participation isn't an option?
Well, I'm sorry you're going. Some of the sexist stuff casually posted on here and passed off as "humour" is quite extraordinary sometimes. There's always plenty of moaning about the modding but I think they're often far too tolerant.
Come back (eventually).
Boo bloody hiss! That's rubbish 🙁
Don't let the idiots win though. Stick around. Some of us are sane*
* This isn't strictly true, but our insanity doesn't take the form of sexism or misogyny
🙁
See you out on the trail one day.
I also forgot to say that I too think there are issues on here, not just the sexism - the thread about a present for a 13 year old sums it up.
What a shame 🙁
There will always be stupid people. You don't stop going to the pub because there are a couple of stupid people there, so why cut yourself off from here? Basically, all I'm saying is that the forum represents the real world so it's hardly suprising that it happens. Unacceptable but expected.
IME, people like that tend to get challenged pretty quickly. Annoying, yes, same as some of the 'big hitters' that ruin almost every thread they post on but overall, the STW forum is still a great place.
I've cleaned up 3 posts on this thread already.. That's my limit.. the next posts I have to 'clean' will be accompanied by a 2 day ban
And a shame that even on this thread, people feel the need to post their pathetic attempts at 'humour' directed at the OP. Hope you're back soon Sue_W.
Edit: I'd only spotted one of the three posts Mark mentioned. Thanks for your work Mark.
Mark - Resident GrumpyI've cleaned up 3 posts on this thread already.. That's my limit.. the next posts I have to 'clean' will be accompanied by a 2 day ban
The marriage one remains intact though...
Does this make me a grass?
Goodbye Sue, you will be missed. Enjoy riding your bike. There are lots of good people on here, there are also lots of 12 year olds, if not in age in attitude.
Sorry to see you go, and whilst I fully understand your reasons I don't think abandonment is the best approach.
I prefer just to ignore the people that I find unpleasant. There are only about half a dozen people on 'the list' but when they crop up on a thread I either ignore their contribution or if they are particularly prominent the whole thread.
Hopefully you'll be back in the future.
It s really sad that you feel the need to take time away or even leave the forum, surely sense would dictate that the offenders should be the ones being given the boot.
I didnt see the thread, I dont know you and it isnt any of my business, but i dont agree with your decision.
By doing this you are letting the purile and the ignorant carry on in the beleif that they are not accountable for their stupidity.
When the French voters became apathetic in the early millenium Le Pen gained a (thankfully short) foothold.
You need to stay and instead make a huge song and dance the moment you see any of that nonsense raising its ugly head and the rest of us must rally behind you.
When the French voters became apathetic in the early millenium Le Pen gained a (thankfully short) foothold.
Yeah, listen to this. If you leave, fascism wins. It's that simple.
I think STW will poorer without your input. Selfishly, why should I lose out because of some idiots? 🙁
Dont leave Sue, stay and flame 'em! .. and if you really do have to go.. dont be too long 🙂
Sugdenr, spot on sir! ( or madam! 🙂 )
Not saying it's right or acceptable, but having never been on a 'predominantly women' forum, does sexism happen the other way on those forums?
Probably not, but just wondering?
I didn't see the thread in question, unless it was the Jessica Ennis one that got closed, but it is bad that you feel you have to leave as a result of it.
What actually happened on my thread last night?
The topic was Forum v's RealLife for those that don't know.
Jessica Ennis one - if so that was me. Sorry if it upset.
Bye Sue, and it's a real shame you feel you need to leave. To the folks suggesting she should face up to the problem - I think Sue made it clear in her initial post that she feels any attempts to do so are futile and laughed at.
It's an internet forum. If I didn't like it I wouldn't use it either.
I often see posts on this website which I don't like. On the other hand, generally I like the helpful nature and friendly banter.
There is a choice, I choose not to contribute to or even read the rubbish. The forum covers so many age groups that it's not easy to tell who's coming out with some stuff.
I just let it pass, and go on my weary way. Tomorrow is just another day.
(there's a song in there somewhere)
I've given up on responding to those threads tbh. You know they're only ever going to end one way. Sorry if you're upset. But you shouldn't leave. Hopefully this thread will be yet ANOTHER wake up call to the Mods and their failure to continue to address this while apparently the word "****" (rhymes with deck, starts with "f") is somehow naughty. 🙄
Sorry to see you go Sue. I posted a photo on here to contribute to a thread, some posters just made responses on the attractiveness (or in thier opinion lack of it) of the girl in the photo, who happens to be a friend. It's just the way this forum is sometimes. Despite the mods and the majority of the posters who are decent people threads can go the 'lads banter way' which is a shame, I hope that you return, if not enjoy your riding and keep well.
Edit - and as per usual I still manage to post on the wrong forum!
No you didn't Sue, because I wouldn't have spotted it if it had been posted in chat (I guess I mercifully also avoided the closed thread). I deleted my stw forum bookmark and homepage at the beginning of this week for similar reasons. The chat forum in particular seems to be peppered with smart @r$e 'look at me' comments, many of which verge on cyber-bullying, although as the recent full-face/body armour thread shows, bike chat is not immune either. Shame, as there are still many helpful, friendly posters on here. Live and let ride, eh?
Take care . . . and see you in the Bike Forum 😉
Edit: Oh, I see it's been moved now 😕
It's a shame to see you go, but really, why leave?
If you don't agree or find it funny, then say so
Everybody else on here doesn't have any problems in saying whats on their mind
There will always be people with different views and sense of humour to your own
I personally subscribe to freedom of speech. If someone wants to be sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist then it's their choice. Me being on the same forum as them doesn't mean I agree or condone any of it
I used to come here a lot, and have reduced my visits for the very same reason OP.
In favour of the mods, they removed a post I reported almost immediately - it was of a sexual nature.
Sorry you're going, I always read your posts when I do drop in.
There will always be people with different views and sense of humour to your ownI personally subscribe to freedom of speech. If someone wants to be sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist then it's their choice. Me being on the same forum as them doesn't mean I agree or condone any of it
Agreed, but I wouldn't want to sit at the same table as them in the pub either. Cheerio!
Well said jools182.
If people stopped posting humorous stuff for fear of offending, this site would be very dull.
Freedom of speech indeed - you have that - but not on here. the rules are clear.
You want to be able to post sexist stuff - go to a forum that allows it
Sexist banter is not amusing to a great many of us - nothing to do with not haveing a sense of humour - everything to do with hating to see prejudice aired
Shame.
I personally subscribe to freedom of speech. If someone wants to be sexist, racist, homophobic, ageist then it's their choice. Me being on the same forum as them doesn't mean I agree or condone any of it
Fine. Then start your own forum. This is STW and this is their house, their rules.
If people stopped posting humorous stuff for fear of offending, this site would be very dull.
Lots of humorous stuff here without having to drop into the gutter...
Blimey - what was this thread?
I didn't look at that thread because I thought it probably wouldn't be my sort of thing.
I really don't agree with this though...
there is a pervasive sexism that runs through STW
For a very male-dominated forum, I think STW is a pretty well-adjusted place most of the time.
A few of the comments about women, and trying to justify these as 'jokes' about what to do to women, were particularly unpleasant in the end. Unfortunately they were nothing new, and I've heard them before on hear, and as a result I'm just going to take some time out from this forum.
I deleted my stw forum bookmark and homepage at the beginning of this week for similar reasons
I used to come here a lot, and have reduced my visits for the very same reason OP.
What a shame.
+1how do you cope in life outside of STW where simply withdrawing your participation isn't an option?
What actually happened on my thread last night?
to sum it up - Sue brought up users posting sexisrt comments (but didn't actually show any examples or anything in any sort of context). I asked her to explain what/why it upset her? Elf wades in being well.. Elf really... thing it, if Sue, Elf, Ernie and Emmz had only taken the time to actually read my posts properly last night they'd have realised that Druidhs quote above was the only point I was making. (TBH it's a pity it was deleted) Instead, they (the lot Sue's so quick to thank for "helping") chose to make up their own (completely wrong) opinions and start slinging insults/accusations. late on someone else waded in with a few sexist insults. = [/thread]
I truely believe you brought this on yourself Sue by bringing up the subject in the first place, but good luck wherever you end up.
I truely believe you brought this on yourself Sue by bringing up the subject in the first place
You're such a charmer.
I know how you feel Sue, I ride a road bike mostly and get upset by posts on here on a daily basis.
Walking away isn't the right thing to do, I take a stand against those abusing road riders, you should do the same for women. 😀
I agree, infact, much more so than any sector of "the real world" that happens to be dominated by men, which ironically is what the thread was comparing STW to 🙄For a very male-dominated forum, I think STW is a pretty well-adjusted place most of the time.
to be fair, "we're" also overtly fattist, generally intolerant, judgemental, snobbish (occ introverted), elitist, boorish and really only a teeny bit sexist
I didn't see the thread(s) yesterday but if it was the usual "back doors" crap, surely it's just socially inadequate, emotionally insecure "bloketalk" isn't it (trolls aside) ?
I think you should stay, call posters on their future behaviour when it happens and get stuck in (in a non-sexist way of course 😳 )
To be fair to GW, he is right about a lot of [b][i][u]that[/u][/i][/b] thread being based on straw men arguments.
Thanks GW.
I did wonder what had happened, when I logged on this morning, as there was nothing sexist at all on the thread when I left yesterday.
It makes me mad that this sort of thing happens. To make it worse our community shrinks.
Badly done to all those involved in causing offence!
I see this place as a pub. When I see a table of 16 year olds I don't sit down and join them I go sit somewhere else. Same goes for here, I keep away from the mindless threads and don't read the ones that bore me.
I agree and sympathise with Sue's situation but to be honest I find the "Big Hitters" much more of a problem. Using the same pub analogy its like chatting with your mates only for a couple of no it alls to come join in then take over the coversation before turning it into an argument.
i'm all up for sexism being cracked down on, but it needs to be equal for people to take it seriously i think....
(i hope CG doesnt mind me bringing it up cos it always brings a smile to my face when i read CG's posts having met her several times in real life... knowing people in real life makes their forum contributions much more interesting personally)
but should CG saying jenson button is fit be just as frowned upon as a bloke saying they find a female celeb attractive? i know i've banged on about thinking natalie portman is stunning loadsa times but hopefully i've never overstepped the mark into 'backdoor' territory like some users.
Phil - you're beautiful, leave the ....
I agree and sympathise with Sue's situation but to be honest I find the "Big Hitters" much more of a problem. Using the same pub analogy its like chatting with your mates only for a couple of no it alls to come join in then take over the coversation before turning it into an argument.
Whilst probably the subject for a separate thread this is also very true.
There will always be stupid people. You don't stop going to the pub because there are a couple of stupid people there, so why cut yourself off from here? Basically, all I'm saying is that the forum represents the real world so it's hardly suprising that it happens. Unacceptable but expected.
The thing is, if there is an environment that I find to be unwelcoming, intimidating or just unpleasant I will stop going there, so I can completely understand where Sue's coming from. And it's hard to say, "Er, do you mind?" when it's so much easier to walk away from. It's not an essential service, it's not 'real life', it's just a forum. Why put up with loads of abusive responses calling you a humourless bull dyke for trying to stop 'banter' when you know it's not going to change anything.
That said, I find STW to actually be one of the best forums I've ever been on in that regard - I've been on other biking and gaming forums where sexism, racism and homophobia aren't just tolerated by the moderaters, but they're joining in with it.
Yes, there's still a few idiots, but generally the mods are pretty quick off the mark in getting rid of/challenging stuff that steps over the line, and as a result STW is actually one of the more pleasant corners of the internet. Although that might say more about the state of the internet... It's not perfect, but as least it's getting there.
but should CG saying jenson button is fit be just as frowned upon as a bloke saying they find a female celeb attractive? i know i've banged on about thinking natalie portman is stunning loadsa times but hopefully i've never overstepped the mark into 'backdoor' territory like some users.
It's descent from observing that someone is a bit of alright into kicking their backdoors off etc etc etc. Personally I never post up on the subject cos it ALWAYS goes downhill quickly.
If the mods can stiff people for avoiding the swear filter then they can easily clamp down on this kind of childish bollocks.
I suspect that many of the comments are an attempt at humour, but we've seen time and time again how difficult it is for people to express themselves accurately and without geninue offence to others.
carbon337 - Member
Bit OTT though aint it?I dont get all wussy when Orange Five riders are slated - "oh im leaving as this upsets me" or when road riders get called gay.
yeah, but this is the place where certain people fall overthemselves to prove how "new man" they are - then show their true colours when the next bout of "resident grumpy approved" Christian bashing begins and they all pile in........
I agree and sympathise with Sue's situation but to be honest I find the "Big Hitters" much more of a problem. Using the same pub analogy its like chatting with your mates only for a couple of no it alls to come join in then take over the coversation before turning it into an argument.Whilst probably the subject for a separate thread this is also very true.
I was just about to quote, and agree, with this.
Its a friggin internet forum, some people need to get out more..
to sum it up - Sue brought up users posting sexisrt comments (but didn't actually show any examples or anything in any sort of context). I asked her to explain what/why it upset her? Elf wades in being well.. Elf really... thing it, if Sue, Elf, Ernie and Emmz had only taken the time to actually read my posts properly last night they'd have realised that Druidhs quote above was the only point I was making. (TBH it's a pity it was deleted) Instead, they (the lot Sue's so quick to thank for "helping") chose to make up their own (completely wrong) opinions and start slinging insults/accusations. late on someone else waded in with a few sexist insults. = [/thread]
Didn't read this thread, but I can imagine it. I can imagine GW aiming at "perceptive and challenging" and hitting "offensive" in the eyes of some readers.
I truely believe you brought this on yourself Sue by bringing up the subject in the first place
I think this cuts to the real root of the OP's issue. Because of the general demographic on here, combined with the anonymity of the keyboard, this place can feel at times like a rugby clubhouse, a place where it's safe to share generally unacceptable viewpoints for a bit of a laugh, in a safe environment, inside threads which "shouldn't be opened if you know you're going to be offended"
Trouble is, this place is more like a rugby clubhouse open to everyone on the annual fireworks night where the whole village, wives, children grandparents are along for a good time and a good chat and a catch up.
carbon337
~a classic example of the sort of post that people dislike.
I'm leaving this forum for a bit for the same reasons as sue. I don't really feel like having to point out to some one again why posts with the "go out for a bike ride" thing is just offensive and not funny anymore Some people on here just don't seem to want to know. I even got told last night it was my fault for playing in the " mens changing room"
It was mostly fun.
The rugby metaphor was the first that came to mind and it might do the trick, but one of the most opening and welcoming places for all ages and sexes* was Farnham rugby club. Great days.
*'Cept perhaps the annual dinner!
Sue, don't rise to it, the place can be like a playground, but there are nobs on here just like there are anywhere else. good luck with your London conundrums, stick me on the list for the next visit.
Some people on here just don't seem to want to know. I even got told last night it was my fault for playing in the " mens changing room"
No, they don't but that's what the mods are for and IME, most people will back you up and more importantly I guess (because other than a select few big hitters, people don't want to have to be a crusader all the time) they'll take it on themselves even though it's not directed at them. I can see that it must get tiresome but really is there any other forum out there that's better (in that respect) than STW?
sue - you can find some of us on facebook BTW
I dislike anything PC & enjoy offensive jokes in real life but can live with / without it on an Inteweb, but its the also bighitters that need to be stopped ruining every thread they touch IMO.
Jesus Christ - emsz going as well!
Last year everyone was flouncing because moderation was getting too strict and nobody could make a joke about anything anymore.
Is this seasons trend to flounce because the forum it too risqué?
Am I going to have to become whiter than white (like sheets not in terms of race) in order to fit in from now on?
Maybe something is very wrong here if Sue and emsz have decided to leave...
I really enjoy emsz' contributions to the forum in particular.
Which makes this a sad day.
what an absolute bloomin shame that someone who's posts I enjoy reading and who has always come across as a lovely well balanced, enthusiastic contributor to the forum has decided to leave ( hopefully for only a very short duration). It doesn't really matter who started/escalated it/ waded into the fray in an elfin stylee etc.. the fact that one of the more decent ones goes just leaves more space for trolls and tools.
nice one STW we should all feel just a little ashamed about that
is commenting on a women's attractivness sexist?
edit. I can't be arsed.
but its the also bighitters that need to be stopped ruining every thread they touch IMO.
the 'bighitters' thing has got naff all to do with sexism.
Im still not sure what a bighitter is exactly, is it someone who posts a lot and generally comes out on top because they are more erudite than the rest? Or are they bullies or what?
Maybe something is very wrong here if Sue and emsz have decided to leave...
Maybe people need to stop being so easily offended...
im over it
TandemJeremy - Member
carbon337~a classic example of the sort of post that people dislike
~a classic example of a self-elected spokesperson laying down the :law:
TandemJeremy
carbon337~a classic example of the sort of post that people dislike.
Objective achieved
Sorry to see you go Sue. This forum (and sport) needs more women, not less.
Not saying it's right or acceptable, but having never been on a 'predominantly women' forum, does sexism happen the other way on those forums?
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships have fun 😀
I find the "Big Hitters" much more of a problem.
It amuses me that whenever I see someone complain about the "Big Hitters", it is always some regular poster that many would regard as a "big hitter".
emsz - MemberI'm leaving this forum for a bit for the same reasons as sue.
Sh*t not you too emsz. This sucks. 🙁
Good question, since there's no definition. I think Al 1st used it here; I believe he initially used it as a kind of compliment.Im still not sure what a bighitter is exactly, is it someone who posts a lot and generally comes out on top because they are more erudite than the rest? Or are they bullies or what?
My definition is "anyone whose 4th and subsequent posts on almost any thread immediately get skipped"
oh well run along then, enjoy your break, dont hurry back.
Can we have some more Jessica Ennis threads now that these two have gone?
I think the fact that there are several female posters, who all generally make good contributions to the forum - all either leaving or not coming here much any more due to sexism tells it's own story.
Is it really such an important 'free speech' issue to be able to exercise the right to letch?
+1 to binners last post
I believe he initially used it as a kind of compliment.
A compliment so backhanded, Rafa Nadal would be proud.
Binners - good day to you.... are you going as well?
If so get cracking, your boring me.
[you're, note the spelling, boring us. Have a couple of days off - Mod]