RTA - Who's at fault? « Singletrack Forum

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RTA - Who's at fault?

68 posts & 46 voices | Started 12 months ago by Euro | Latest reply from bigyinn

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Euro - Member

A relative (female) pulled onto a 30mph road and was hit in the drivers side/corner. The other party (young lad with 2 weeks experience) skidded for 40-45' before hitting her car with enough force to render it an insurance* right-off.

Obviously she's in the wrong for pulling out when there was traffic approaching. He claims he wasn't speeding and is also now claiming whiplash. Conviently for him (the accident happened very close to his house) his family/neighbours were very quick to move both vehicles and surround her, putting the blame firmly on her shoulders, despite no-one actually witnessing the incident.

Due to the bank holiday, the insurance companies have not been involved yet, but will most likely tomorrow. Anyone have advice which I can pass on to her which might help. She's not trying to screw the system but is having trouble putting it out of her mind.

Thanks.

*she works in a car dealership and the mechs say it'll cost twice what the car is worth to put right.

Posted 12 months ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

Obviously she's in the wrong for pulling out when there was traffic approaching

Yep, that's it. Open and shut case to be fair. The other guy speeding or not doesn't really come into it. Sorry....

Posted 12 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Obviously she's in the wrong for pulling out when there was traffic approaching.

Sorry - 'fraid that really does pretty much sum it up, rightly or wrongly, thats the way it is

Posted 12 months ago #
druidh - Member

...unless the guy was coming round a blind corner well in excess of the speed limit, in which case she had a reasonable expectation that it was safe to pull out.

Posted 12 months ago #
Euro - Member

Is that how Insurance co.s will see it?

It could be argued that if he had been travelling at 30mph, he could have stopped in about 30 feet give or take and the accident wouldn't have happened. I've luckily not had any incidents and this is her first in 20+ tears of driving, so have no idea what the proceedures are.

Posted 12 months ago #
Cougar - Member

He claims he wasn't speeding

Fairly easy to ascertain from the length of the stripes. The others are right about blame but, insurance companies don't like paying out so it's worth fighting.

and is also now claiming whiplash.

I'm no medical expert but I don't believe this is possible from sudden deceleration forwards; you get whiplash when someone smashes in the back of you. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this claim might well work in your relative's favour.

Posted 12 months ago #
nickjb - Member

They might go knock for knock if you can argue that the road was clear when she pulled out and the other driver was speeding. That's what happened to me. I was at a traffic light controlled junction, but the lights had failed. Waited 'til it was clear, pulled out, whacked in the rear corner so I was well out and had almost crossed. He didn't even slow down for the faulty traffic lights. New driver in his mum's car. Whatever they say, argue. The insurers will try to get out of it and the first offer will be rubbish.

Posted 12 months ago #
aracer - Member

he could have stopped in about 30 feet give or take

To be fair, the HC stopping distance (excluding thinking time) is 45ft from 30mph. You'd have to pull 1g to stop in 30ft - not something I think a standard car will manage even on a dry road.

The speed of the other driver does make a difference, but only if he was doing well in excess of the limit.

Posted 12 months ago #
aracer - Member

I'm no medical expert but I don't believe this is possible from sudden deceleration forwards

Should have stopped after the first 4 words.

Posted 12 months ago #
pjt201 - Member

exact same thing happened to my sister just after she passed her test. The insurance companies went 50-50 due to the excessive speed of the driver on the major road. i think he admitted this though.

Posted 12 months ago #
neilsonwheels - Member

Why pull out.?

Posted 12 months ago #
onehundredthidiot - Member

What did the police say?

Posted 12 months ago #
Jamie - Member

Why pull out.?

Probably don't want kids yet.

Posted 12 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Posted 12 months ago #
IanMunro - Member

Posted 12 months ago #
project - Member

She pulled out,

they both believe insurance companies dont work at bank hloidays , they do,

she is looking for an excuse,

she pulled out, she is to to blame.

Could have been a cyckllist and he would have suffered an injury.

Also newtons law of motion, every body continues in its state of rest or uniform motion unless acted upon by some external force, the young lad , hitting her car, fits that law,

Posted 12 months ago #
rs - Member

the thing about stopping distance doesn't really help, the driver on the major road should not have to stop or slow down because somebody pulls out just out of the safe stopping distance.

Posted 12 months ago #
Cougar - Member

Should have stopped after the first 4 words.

I don't disagree; however, this is the Internet, so I'm damn well going to give you my opinion on things I know nothing about. Alright?

(-:

Posted 12 months ago #
amplebrew - Member

The only way that she'd be able to conclusively prove that the other driver was speeding was if the Police got involved so that they could measure the skid marks and do their own skid tests.

Although it's best practice to do this at the time of the RTC.

Whiplash claims are 'par the course' these days with RTC's unfortunately.

Posted 12 months ago #
Burls72 - Member

The way i read the situation is the young chap flashed her to pull out

Posted 12 months ago #
molgrips - Member

Speed does factor into it in theory. If you see a certain distance of empty road, then you see nothing is coming and you go. You are expecting people do be doing 30mph which means they'll take x seconds to be upon you after entering the visible stretch of road.

If they are doing say double the limit, you only have half as much time as you would expect and hence could be in trouble when you could have quite reasonably expected to be safe.

However that's all in theory (according to me and my experience) not law or insurance company practice, of course.

Posted 12 months ago #
Suggsey - Member

Like they say-she pulled out. As for the whiplash, perfectly possible from the sounds of the impact damage.
Its sad but thats what insurance is there for and we all run the risks as drivers of having a lapse of concentration or mis-judgement.
Hope that she gets over the shock of it and it all gets sorted quickly as thats one of the worst aspects-the delays etc.

Posted 12 months ago #
Euro - Member

When she pulled out the road was empty (or she didn't see him). My initial thoughts were he had been 'hidden' by the front window pillar, but if this was the case it would have been front end impact.

I'm not familiar with the road, so not sure if there are corners near the junction.

I also had concerns about the whiplash. She had no idea what was going on and the crash was a total surprise. She did clonk her head but is more worried that she doesn't have a car to get her kids to and from school. He knew it was coming, was slowing dramatically and most likely braced himself and still hurt his neck?

I realise i'm not impartial in this, and she did unwittingly pull out, but I think this lad and family are trying to pull a fast one at her expense.

Posted 12 months ago #
Mintman - Member

I sustained whiplash from a side impact so regardless of fault she should get herself checked out for injury as well, y'know, just incase.

Posted 12 months ago #
IanMunro - Member

I'm not familiar with the road, so not sure if there are corners near the junction.

Do you know the location so that we can look at google maps and judge from our arm chairs.

Posted 12 months ago #
hels - Member

Molgrips - while your argument has some merit it bothers me somewhat that you can't tell the difference between a car coming towards you at 30mph and one coming towards you at 60mph. Should you really be driving on public roads ??

Actually sorry that sounds more harsh than I meant, but generally people can tell, I certainly can, and it keeps me alive on the motorbike.

Posted 12 months ago #
allthepies - Member

The other guy speeding or not doesn't really come into it. Sorry....

Of course the speed comes into it. Affects everything!

Posted 12 months ago #
Kato - Member

His speed has no bearing on the fault of the accident. She pulled out on him. Sorry, but that's the way the insurance company will look at it

Posted 12 months ago #
amplebrew - Member

Did the other vehicle leave skid marks and are they still at the scene?

If so, it might be worth taking a few pics of the road, the available view from the junction from her own and the other drivers perspective.

I'd also measure the skid marks if you can and also the distance of road that can be seen from the junction.

I think she'll end up taking full responsibilty at the end of the day as she has pulled into a carriageway, but it might be worth making the effort with the pics and measureents.

Posted 12 months ago #
allthepies - Member

His speed has no bearing on the fault of the accident. She pulled out on him. Sorry, but that's the way the insurance company will look at it

See druid's post

...unless the guy was coming round a blind corner well in excess of the speed limit, in which case she had a reasonable expectation that it was safe to pull out.

These things aren't necessarily all black or white.

Posted 12 months ago #
poly - Member

if he had been travelling at 30mph, he could have stopped in about 30 feet give or take

Well the official highway code stopping distance is 14m of braking (after 9m of thinking) at 30 mph - so you would expect about 45ft of skid marks. Modern brakes might stop you quicker - but I think you'd find it hard to convince the other insurer! Try this and it will support the logic that he wasn't speeding (or not significantly) - it doesn't take much damage to write off a modern car so the fact it is written off isn't really proof of residual speed.

Posted 12 months ago #
b r - Member

the thing about stopping distance doesn't really help, the driver on the major road should not have to stop or slow down because somebody pulls out just out of the safe stopping distance.

Eh, so would you just plough straight into something because you are in the 'right'?

Please tell me that you don't drive.

Posted 12 months ago #
TheLittlestHobo - Member

Used to work for a major insurance brokers dealing with rta insurance claims for clients such as Eddie Stobarts etc.

It was always a cheap shot for anyone to ever mention speed unless they were the police. If anyone mentioned it they were always rebuffed with a simple question.

Please send calibrated proof of speeding.

Unless it can be quantified by someone qualified to make such a judgement speed has absolutely no place in an insurance claim.

I have been sarcastic in the past and asked for the calibration certificate for the clients eye sight in the past due to solicitors arguing the point

Posted 12 months ago #
totalshell - Member

i clearly saw it all the young lady only pulled out after the young male had stopped and passed her a note telling her clearly that he was going to stop all oncoming traffic so that she could safely enter the main road and then as she did that he deliberately rammed her.. i can even get a copy of the note if you think that would help or any of my 56 mates on the double decker that was passing would happily say thats what they saw as well

Posted 12 months ago #
Euro - Member

Ok, thanks to the detective powers of Mr Munro and google maps I got to look at the junction.

Don't know if this works but here is a link.

Her brother took pics of the skidmarks, but as I said earlier the cars had been moved and debris/oil cleared by the family. No doubt the CSI could tell if the other car caused them, what speed he was doing and when he last had sex.

I just called her and explained the best she could hope for was a 50/50 and suggested she get herself looked at by a GP.

Thanks for the help/advice chaps.

Posted 12 months ago #