Am pretty slow at descending on the road (and off road for that matter).. and came across this vid
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdwxu58U0rQ
Where he says the pro's cornering technique is wrong, and his is right.. thoughts anyone?
I always assumed just look at what the pros do, (weight on outer foot, lean inner knee into the corner slightly, look ahead at the line you want to take etc) and try and replicate it.. am I doing it wrong? And any tips to improve my descending?
Without viewing the vid - I did a skills training day once and was told not to put inside knee out as its wrong - when you do this your keeping the bike too upright and not putting tyres to full use.
This was on an MTB though and it was to implement the knobbles on the outside to full potential.
Surely keeping your body more vertical and pushing bike over to the angle is more efficient use of a round tyre as it would mean less steering is needed.
This would mean standing though and pushing top tube to inside knee and not knee out.
Some road pros are experimenting with the dangling leg option A La moto gp stylee.
Don't fancy it myself!
really..? this was 2008?
i would have guessed 1993
anyway, **** knows about the technique.. personally i don't want to go any faster down hills!
Can't see the VT at work but .........
I like to keep the bike as upright as possible and use my body to get the weight inside
As an ex motorcycle racer, it's pretty much 2nd nature
I'll stick my neck right out and say that's all bolios. I think it's just better to learn for yourself what you can do. Descending isn't a thought process, it's natural, fluid and learnt.
LOL the bloke at 1.30 minutes has the right idea....bugger off.
Some road pros are experimenting with the dangling leg option A La moto gp stylee.
Hasn't that always been known as a 'Gary Fisher' very common in cyclocross and on diesel patches.
This guy is the master at descending
I like to keep the bike as upright as possible and use my body to get the weight inside
As an ex motorcycle racer, it's pretty much 2nd nature
There's a reason it's different on a bicycle: In each case, which is heavier, you or the bike?
Ah but oldgit, in those instances it's to pre empt a slip before a fall.
The pros are doing it to lower the centre of gravity.
The single most important thing is line choice.
Second most important thing is confidence in your front tyre and the understanding that if you push the bike into corners, you generate more grip than if you try to back off.
Third, knowing how much pedal clearance you have so you can get on the gas earlier out of exits.
Fourth is knowing that no matter how much you practice, some people are just far better at it than others.
I corner similarly to on an MTB. Push the bike down further than me (obviously there's limits to this). Most of the time the limit on the road bike isn't my technique it's my fear of what might happen if I get it wrong so I lose a good bit of speed by riding on the hoods.
Anyway, this is how to do it:
I have given this a lot of thought as I am a skier. The shoulders towards the hill and weight on outside foot technique used by the top downhillers looks wrong and probably would be wrong if they were doing the equivalent of short radius slalom turns, but you can't look at teh exit point of a turn if you are facing downhill. It also gets the rider's weight right above the contact patches which is important if they are to survive any breakaway of the tyres. Shoulders downhill with angulation at the hips would do the same but obviously you can't look at teh exit point of the turn unless it turns downhill immediately after. The roadie technique of lean, inside knee up and rely on centrifugal force to apply body weight to the contact patch is just wrong in my eyes. I'm sure it's the laziest way to do it and therefore the most efficient but it relies on the tyres and tarmac to hold. When it doesn't you get carnage as the riders have no time to react.
Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.. will experiment a bit more and see which method results in the least crashing..
There's a reason it's different on a bicycle: In each case, which is heavier, you or the bike?
Some of the 50s and 80s I raced were lighter than me
It's not rocket science it's that other thing I can't recal the name of. A stretch of tarmac only has so many factors and riding down them just becomes that thing I'm thinking of? intuition??
Not sure about the above (vid) technique although I am sure it would work for some. As for going faster downhill on the road/cornering on the road, personally I stick to the traditional method (off road, is different), but definitely try and learn/adopt the Cancellara dip you will see in the above video; it's excellent for those times when you just need to tighten up a little toward the end of a bend.
Also not the most exciting or insightful piece advice ever but, practice is the thing that will make the most difference. I used to be super confident downhill on the road, happily sailed past cars at 45-50mph but then didn't have a road bike for quite a while, for a few months after getting a new one I was rubbish, no confidence at all, I almost gave up on the road bike, but now back to feeling pretty confident...although not quite the luxury of the quiet roads I used to ride on, sigh.
I think Old Git is right. I descend fast on road, which is just as well because I'm not the fastest climber.
And whilst people refer to "fearless" descenders, in my experience, good descenders know how to make the descent as safe as possible and don't frighten themselves half as much as poor descenders who constantly take the wrong line, brake in the corner, overshoot etc.
On a recent road sportive I did, I would say I descended better than those around me ( climbing is another matter tho )
I'd say my style is similar to Cancellara's in the video ( I'm obviously not as good ) in that I sit on the seat most of the time and put a knee out for the corner. I dont lean the bike to the inside of me ( as in the video ) nor to I try to sit on the inside of the bike ( like a motorbike racer )
Top tip is kill the speed before the corner, bent your inside elbow and dip the inside shoulder and look at where you want to go ( i.e. not the outside edge of the road )
Not really thought about it much, but I keep a fairly neutral position on the bike and use body movement to correct the line mid corner so I don't have to use the brakes or try to steer too suddenly...
So yeah, intuition. I've been giving it a bit more thought since I've been training with a young lad that's just learning the ropes on a road bike, but again, I can't stress road position enough - it amazes me how some people don't set the bike up for a bend and just wing it. Your entry line dictates your exit position. Straighten up the entry line for safe braking and get on the pedals as soon as you can.
I also use the "vanishing point" technique that was taught to me by my dad - a trained Police pursuit driver - many moons ago. It allows me to increase or decrease speed relative to what the road is going to do, rather than what it's doing immediately in front of you. Very useful on unfamiliar descents.
Just watching that Spartacus clip and found this, check out the bit around 43seconds... Show's just how comfortable both these riders are at that kind of speed!!
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