Hello all,

I’m a semi-regular STW forum contributor, but am today posting under an anonymous username due to the personal nature of the post. I’m seeking the guidance of you nice folk on here.

I work for a large FTSE100 company, and have done since graduating 17 years ago. I’ve had problems with depression since being a teenager, but only sought help in my early 20’s (I’m 38 now). Aside from a few blips of ~2 weeks at a time, the medication and a wonderful wife have kept me on a relatively even keel.

However, things have changed a lot in work over the last ~12 months, and I’ve found myself in a role and in a department (and with a new boss) that has played a big part in my mental health deteriorating to the point that I was taking steps to end my life.

I’ve been off work since January (so just over 4 months now), and have changed medication from citalopram which I had been on for 15 years to mirtazapine, which sent me even lower. Now on sertraline which I thought had started to work wonders – I felt fresher, better and thought I was about ready to return to work.

Since being off (and before too), I’ve made it clear to my line manager that I don’t want to return to my old role or department. I’ve asked him repeatedly to help me find a new role, or go into the ‘resource pool’ where people whose roles are redundant can look for a fresh role within the company. He has so far said that neither of these options are possible, and that I’ll need to return to the same department, with the same bosses, working on a slightly different project which really will be no different.

Additionaly, I found out on Friday last week that I’d been given a ‘Needs Improvement’ rating for FY14/15, despite being rated as ‘Achieves Standards’ for Q1 and Q2, and only being told in mid December (3 weeks before going off) that they were unhappy with my performance, at which point I explained that I had been struggling to concentrate and make decisions due to the anxiety and depression. I’ll be appealing this decision, but it feels like I’m being punished for being unwell, and it means that I’ll be going back to a ‘Coaching Plan’ where I’ll be under a lot of pressure to meet their idea of ‘normal’.

I thought I’d be ready to return to work in the next couple of weeks, but the realisation of what I’d be going back to has sent me into a bit of an anxiety spiral again. I don’t know what to do.

I’ve thought I should maybe write an email to the head of the business, the head of HR and the company’s chief medical officer outlining the situation and asking for their help to get back to work in a new role. I don’t feel my line manager (or his manager) are willing (or able – it’s a very big company) to get me into a different role. At the same time, our company makes a very big deal of being an industry leader in looking after it’s people’s mental health.

Has anyone here been in a similar situation? What did you do? Any other ideas, or words of wisdom?

We have 2 young daughters, and my wife only works part time so just quitting will need to be the absolute last resort.

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for your comments.

Fek them and what they want, this is about you, your wife & your daughters. Go higher up the chain for your plan to be heard. If you still can’t get them to budge then you need to either bite the bullet or leave. Are you in a union? Keep records of all conversations. Good luck.

Was in a similar situation (apart from wife/kids)
I quit and as soon as I walked out that building I immediately felt better.
Life is too short. Your health more important. There are plenty of jobs out there

Really sorry to hear about your situation. I’ve been in similar with anxiety and in the end I realised that is was me or the job and in the end I just walked with no job to go to. Looking back I wish I’d made that move much much earlier as I wouldn’t have ended up so ill. I was a gibbering wreck surviving on about an hour sleep a night and walking round in a zombie state unable to function. Took years to fully recover.

You have to look at it as just a job, there are plenty more out there and if this one is making you ill, then you need to realise that you come first. If the company can’t (or won’t) find you a role with less stress then just walk away.

Life is too short. Your health more important. There are plenty of jobs out there

I agree with all that. It will be very tough for you if you’ve been there 17 years and never worked anywhere else. ‘just quitting’ might not be that sensible if you aren’t in a financially strong position but you need to be looking for an exit strategy and soon.

It’s not the job, it’s your incompatibility win it. You need to determine precisely what those incompatibilities are and why they exist. Where do you have to change and where are you unable/unwilling to fulfil the role and everything that it means to you? They are large, complex questions to answer, and many of the answers are merely other questions. It doesn’t sound from your post that you have discovered the root causes of your depression. That’s your job.

The ‘just jack it’ comments aren’t particularly useful; I can’t imagine that adding money and job worries to your plate would make you feel a whole lot better.

If your line manager won’t help then go above his head, directly to the head of HR. If you highlight an issue to them they will be obliged to do something about it. And when it comes down to it, getting a poor appraisal isn’t exactly a high priority at teh nmoment, is it?

Short circuiting your boss might put his nose out of joint, but WGAS?

You mentioned medical officer? Have you had an occupational health referral? Your chronic health condition is likely ( legalise can’t say definitely would) covered by equality act. A supportive report from occ health may help push them towards redeployment or supportive measures. When/ if you are ready return it needs to be done in a supportive and measured way to help you.
Speak hr about occ health, that size of organisation should have a programme and oh provider in place

Since it’s a large company, is there an ethics type programme that’s worthwhile – that could be a potential route if you don’t think you’re being taken seriously.

Purely from an employment POV – have you only been in contact with your line manager?

If so you need to be talking to HR instead, preferably with your union rep present if you are a member.

Set out your objections to the way your performance review has been handled and explain that it would amount to constructive dismissal if you walk or unfair dismissal if they actually fire you.

Then reiterate your expectation to move departments.

And do some job hunting in the meantime obvs, because even if you win round one you could find yourself being legally managed out of a job next year.

(I’m not an employment professional BTW, but was a union rep)

Worth considering what chakaping says. HR might be happy to consider a 3rd option of a compromise agreement which could give you a nice cash pay off and plenty of time and financial stability to look for another job. As you’ve been there 17 years we could be talking a decent chunk of money.

If you’ve got the fight in you to get another job there then I’d say why not?

Your proposed route seems good – I’d also get advice from CAB or ACAS or similar, as I think they have a duty to make reasonable adjustments for you under DDA (I don’t know if this covers fiding you another role).

Leaving feels great, but if you can’t find another job then there’s a whole load of new stress (I speak from experience)

DDA is now equalities act, prob not as far as finding other role but reasonable adjustments is an absolute and that’s why need an occ health referral as it’s amazing how managers behaviour changes amd willingness to help goes up when they know it is legal requirement.

They have no right to get rid of you while you are sick.
If you return to work carrying out the same role and you fail, they have the right to fire you.
I believe (I am not a lawyer but have experience of mental health) that if you tell them you are incapable of carrying out your job but want return, they have to offer you another less stressful position – this might mean demotion and less money coming in but at least you get back to work.
If they are a FTSE100 company I am very sure they have a procedure in place for this very situation.
HR is your friend here.
Call HR (you can get stuff done much quicker and easier by speaking to them), followed up by an email of what was discussed. The email is useful should you need to reference a specific conversation later. Copy this email to your line manager, his boss and whoever the regional director is. Do this once a week asking for an update. Express your concerns. Don’t hold back but also be courteous at all times.
The director will soon get pissed off with these emails coming into his inbox and will chase down the line to make sure this issue is resolved.
I know what it’s like when you’re at the bottom and depression has it’s hands round your neck. Trust me, it will get better.

While jumping ship might be the ultimate objective if its an FT100 company it should have competent HR department. ScottChegg has the best suggestion talk to them (without your line manager discuss your concerns and a ‘back to work’ programme. From experience jumping in at the deep end when you are feeling wobbly (sorry describing my own experience not yours) doesn’t work out well. They should be cooperative as giving an employee the all or nothing option doesn’t tend to play out too well in the resultant tribunal. They should also be able to keep your manager on a leash – sudden under performance/health issues by staff when the major change is your manager doesn’t reflect well on them.

iolo – Member
They have no right to get rid of you while you are sick.

Don’t think that’s right.

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/reasons-you-can-be-dismissed

Illness
You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.

Before taking any action, your employer should:

look for ways to support you – eg considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing
give you reasonable time to recover from your illness
If you have a disability (which may include long-term illness), your employer has a legal duty to support disability in the workplace.

Dismissal because of a disability may be unlawful discrimination.

Whatever you decide, I really hope it works out, your health improves, and you’re happy. I’d try to talk to the big cheese, let them know you’re not being helped, and start looking for another job. Best of luck.

Some excellent insight and advice so far! Thanks guys.

It’s not the job, it’s your incompatibility win it. You need to determine precisely what those incompatibilities are and why they exist. Where do you have to change and where are you unable/unwilling to fulfil the role and everything that it means to you?

Yep, you’re right about it being more of an incompatability – I think I’ve so far identified 4 or 5 aspects that I feel make it incompatible. Some of them could maybe be adjusted around, but some of them are just fundamental things that are anathema to my personality.

It doesn’t sound from your post that you have discovered the root causes of your depression. That’s your job.

I’m getting there – been referred for psychology 1:1 CBT which will help. Not sure that knowing the cause will necessarily help with the work situation though?

Short circuiting your boss might put his nose out of joint, but WGAS?

Reckon I’d tell him before I done it just out of courtesy.

Have you had an occupational health referral?

Yes, had that back in Feb. The report said that a change of role would likely be conducive to an earlier return to work, and would ensure that a return would be more likely to be permanent. It didn’t go full out and say ‘he definitely can’t come back to that role’. It doesn’t seem to have made any difference whatsoever though.

Since it’s a large company, is there an ethics type programme

Not that I know of 🙁

Purely from an employment POV – have you only been in contact with your line manager?

Yes – which I was kind of surprised about. I thought I’d have an HR person assigned, but it seems that only my boss gets support from HR.

your chronic health condition is likely ( legalise can’t say definitely would) covered by equality act

Yes, I believe it is covered – OH report mentioned that too.

Worth considering what chakaping says. HR might be happy to consider a 3rd option of a compromise agreement

Yep – was thinking I might add this to the end of the email to give them an easier way out if I’m just too much hassle.

Depression is an awful thing and hope you are on the mend.

On you’re return you need to organise meeting with your Senior Manager, HR and a Union Rep, if you don’t have one a very trusted colleague. Discuss why you have been struggling to meet your role and what you would like to happen. Suggest you’d like to be in a different department as you feel that the issues with your current line manager aren’t helping and may lead to more time off.

As for the Coaching Plan. You’re worrying and looking into this too much, it’s understandable why. They should be coaching (supporting) you through a time of need and that’s what this is, they can’t ignore the issue but have to address is sensibly. A good coaching plan will do that.

They have no right to get rid of you while you are sick.

That’s a myth and really very bad advice.

Aren’t HR and Senior Management involved in your return to work schedule? This should be done as a quorum of line management, career counselors, HR and someone from the SMT (it being a FTSE 100 org).
If HR aren’t involved then I suggest a return to work plan should be in place – has it been recorded that your extended absence was due to the role / personnel?

Is your office unionised? If so, have a chat with your union rep.

Chapaking + 1

In addition it’s Mental Health Awareness week next week – so maybe mention that to HR too.

I’ve thought I should maybe write an email to the head of the business, the head of HR and the company’s chief medical officer outlining the situation and asking for their help to get back to work in a new role. I don’t feel my line manager (or his manager) are willing (or able – it’s a very big company) to get me into a different role. At the same time, our company makes a very big deal of being an industry leader in looking after it’s people’s mental health.

I think this is a good idea but get someone (a friend at work?) to give it the once over before firing it off.

I’d request a meeting with HR (without your line manager) initially.

If you are not a union member you could take an advocate in with you instead, probably.

It’s handy to have someone to take notes on your behalf even if they’re not speaking for you, as you’re likely to be a bit keyed up.

Pretty sure you are protected by the Equality Act (https://www.gov.uk/when-mental-health-condition-becomes-disability)

I’d write to HR, OH and your line manager requesting a meeting to develop a return to work plan. If they aren’t open to your suggestions to move role, start asking for reasonable adjustments.

I would speak to both Mind and ACAS beforehand to get advice.

Big companies do not necessarily have good front line HR and line managers can often be ignorant. Try dealing with them at a lowish level, but if you get nowhere then it’s time to escalate with a clear statement about the equality act and reasonable adjustments. Reasonable adjustments, so far as employment tribunals have interpreted it, can actually be quite major changes so (unless Health and Safety is an issue) it is difficult for an employer to argue against a change if it is possible.

I am a union member – I spoke with them late on Friday. They sound supportive, but to be honest they’re not the most proactive of unions.

I’ll speak to ACAS – it never occurred to me that they might be able to help.

Could be a couple of things going on here.

1. And sorry for saying this, the business might see you as a liability so they are managing you out, ie they know full well that you dont like where you are being asked to work, but they want you to leave, and making you not like the job is a good way to get you to leave of your own accord so they dont have to do anything. I have seen this happen many a time

2. Your line management do not understand mental health at all, and are actually doing nothing about it, or do not care enough to do anything about it.

I would be contacting the medical officer direct and seeing what they can do.

Do be aware though that the ultimate is that you will be out of a job, whatever you do, so maybe you should look for some thing new anyhow. 17 yrs is a long time in one place, not sure I could hack that !

I quit and as soon as I walked out that building I immediately felt better.
Life is too short. Your health more important. There are plenty of jobs out there

Houns + 1

Best thing I ever did, only problem is realising that you should have done it years before 🙂 Good luck buddy..

I was in what sounds like a similar position with my old company (not because of depression) and it sounds to me like one way or another it seems like they probably want you gone.
Make sure you are documenting everything, notes from any calls etc and emails not just on the work laptop/system.
I wouldn’t go right out and say that you’d consider a compromise agreement but you need to make clear that you feel you cannot return to your original role.
Start the appeal of the performance review, or as you are off potentially highlight that you will, but don’t expect the outcome to change.

I would be contacting the medical officer direct and seeing what they can do.

Ooh good call I missed Occy Health off.

Do be aware though that the ultimate is that you will be out of a job,

Not necessarily no.

Sounds like the company and the type of work are not what you want.

Best thing is to think about what you want to do for the rest of your life.
If you have a goal and set yourself on a path to achieve that goal then that is what you should do.
don’t just work at a company because its a job.
And if they are trying to put you in a different job then they wont give a crap about you.

It’s down to you to make the change and do something you want to do.
If you stay stressed then it will invariably lead to ill health such as heart, kidney or liver damage.
Stress will raise your blood pressure and sustained high BP will damage your organs.

So get out as soon as possible.

Sounds like the company and the type of work are not what you want.

+1

So its a big company youve been on the sick, they paid you and let you come back instead of sacking you, a loty of small firms youd be out of the dor as being to costly and not productive enough.

But being a bigger comapny , youll have a union rep hopefully, a personnel dept, and senior management to appeal to, and alsothe press to put your story to, there may also be a possibility theyll make yourr role redundant.

But from experience in large companies , there is usually a personality clash between you and some lower management, just go higher than them, even if you door step them on the car park.

And if it makes you really ill resign.Your health is more important.

I’ve been off work since January

There’s a part of me that feels that an Employer who has just been paying you during this long absence would think that you might be grateful for that and once fit and healthy, get straight back to pay something back….not start making demands about which role you don’t want!

And of course a lot of that will be dependent on how well you get on the Bosses and how they view you.

So my point is…you’re not really in a position to make demands. But if its that important to you, go back and start looking for another job, whilst employed and getting paid. Its also better to look for another job whilst employed as you probably don’t need to mention your health issue.

I’ve nothing to add other than the fact you have been at that place a long long time so maybe a change is in order: new job? self-employed? Like others above I can’t imagine staying at the same place for that long!

Sounds like the company and the type of work are not what you want.

It read to me very much like the OP is happy at the company but has a personality clash with his/her line manager. And may have moved into the wrong position for his/her temperament.

“not start making demands about which role you don’t want!”
I don’t see it as anyone making demands – OP has a legally protected right to be supported by his employer and not discriminated against for ill health. These are rights hard fought for and won and all too often ignored due to bullying or ignorance of employers.
What happens the time you fracture something falling off your push bike playing in the woods – they should just bin you as being unproductive and loss to the business?
Ridiculous attitude.

So my point is…you’re not really in a position to make demands.

Seriously?

A responsible employer will value it’s employees, it’ll help them back to work, it’ll find a role that or a department that is more suitable for them. They’ll find ways to support them, coach them and monitor their welfare, they’ll also find ways to prevent it from happing to other employees if they can or spotting an issues early.

i read it as he is not cut out for the type of work his now doing and the new manager, dept are making that worse.

Simply carrying on to me doesn’t seem the right solution, sounds like to rethink the future and change it to do something the OP really wants to do.
with the summary analysis of his performance from the previous quarters and the stress that will come from trying to fight the company, I dont think that whatever he does he will come away with anything more than a moderate settlement of six months salary.

I went through something similar I quit and set up a bike shop.
now I am suffering from depression lol

time to get the CV out and do something else.

I would speak to someone in the health and wellbeing team, or the occupational health team

Their role is usually to support you back to work, and they’ll usually be more supportive and understanding about you returning to work

(I work for a massive FTSE 100 too and know how things would work in my employer)

I’d recommend speaking to occupational health.
I’ve had several episodes of depression over the past 25 years. I also have a stressful job and occupational health have been very helpful, including the time I had some work-related stress.
I cannot tolerate most meds, so I don’t take antidepressants but have found CBT and meditation to be very helpful.

I really feel your pain in this situation,and ended a job myself several years back after losing the support from my employers, The realisation that there is a big wide world out there with endless opportunities was far from my mind when i was suffering with this illness at that time.

Starting a new job is probably the last thing you want to do right now, but, I do think you need to reflect on your future and what you can offer another employer rather than dwell on existing bosses with (what sounds like) little real interest in your well-being.

HTH, 😉 and healing vibes

been in this situation, the cruel thing about depression/anxiety is it robs you of the strength to get the underlying issues sorted, whether that’s dealing with HR or changing a job, it’s a spiral of misery.
I was also in a very large company, 16 years, on my third lengthy absence through stress, depression etc. In the end I quit, and although it hasn’t been easy looking back one big lesson for me was if you stay with an employer too long it warps your entire world view of work-life, you just seep into the very workings of the company and it is very very hard to jump out of that. Truth is just a change in employer can do you the world of good, for many reasons you won’t now be aware of.

Went through occ health, three times, it was useless, for me it was a box ticking exercise of more use for covering the collective arses of the company and its managers. Sad but true but you will eventually be known as a liability, suggestions of ‘not being cut out for the job’ is nonsense, nobody knows you like you do.

I spent my last absence sorting a CV, I had an interview within a week of sending it out to agents, and an offer within two, and I accepted.
Whilst the shock of change has been more of a challenge than I expected, work related stress is gone, and I realise now that it isn’t something you just have to put up with as part of the job. Work related stress is caused by the culture of a company as much as the job itself.

Tl;dr move jobs.

Good luck.