I have two sets of lumi's and would love to upgrade to something brighter. If you can do a conversion then I am in!
Bike Forum
[closed]
Resurrecting old Lumis
-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
Man, this whole thing quickly gets quite complicated.
Just found that driver on ebay that you posted a pic of....how come that is so cheap compared to the Cutter MR11 drivers? I guess because the Cutter ones are more 'intelligent' and come with software (edit - actually I think it's just internal firmware) that lets you fiddle with settings etc.
The eBay driver looks like a similar version to the basic cutter one that is too big for the cans.And looking at the triple LED kits - there's quite a lot to choose from. What optic type for a start. Then there's the LEDs - there's tons of XPE's; are they all the same lumen ouput, just different tints? And how about the XPGs? Is it worth waiting for some dedicated optics?
And then presumably the mcpcb you specify is the round series only?!Presumably the heatsink will attach the the back of the LED board to keep the temp of them down. Does any consideration need to be made to keeping the driver board cool too?
Posted 2 years ago # -
The driver on ebay is cheaper than Bflex from cutter because it drives at a single current like the cheaper one on Cutters site. (that won't fit a lumi halogen can)
The Bflex allows you to set max current, temp trip, and has 5 settings for various light levels. In other words yes more complicated.
Given the concern over the optics for the XPG's then probably a triple XRE R5 leds on a 35mm PCB and the cutter narrow optic is the way to go. I have this set up in a Lumi HID can and it works well.
and yip the heatsink attaches to the back of the ally LED board with heat transfer paste. The main task is to transfer the heat from the LED board to the outside of the lamp case as efficiently as possible.
I don't think you need to consider keeping the driver cool. I have not heard of any problems with them. You do however have to electrically insulate them to stop them shorting on switches or the lamp body. I just wrap mine in insulation tape. Some people use heatshrink to cover them.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think the most important feature of the bflex is that it fits in an MR11 can!
You don't have to worry about the temp of the board because its got its own temp monitoring built in & it won't allow you to overdrive the LEDs because of the software controlled current regulator.
In that pic of my lights above I use a pair of quad XRE R2's one with medium & one with narrow optic on the bars & a triple with narrow on the helmet with seperate batteries so if I get a failure, I'm not relying on a single light.
I might be tempted to do some convertions but it'll take a while for the parts to come through from Cutter.Posted 2 years ago # -
Chucky, i have one you can borrow but its a Q4 IIRC, do you need to borrow an optic too??
Posted 2 years ago # -
That will be spot Kinda666. and yes i'll need the optic as well.
I'll mail you at home tonight and we can sort it out from then if that's OK.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah no worries Dave, i'll be at work but can access my email on my phone!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Does anyone know where you can get pre soldered driver boards for the 3 LED cutter kits?
I made a right mess of soldering my bflex board + so it can cut out. Want to start again with one of those better heat sinks + a pre soldered board so I can't cock it up. Any ideas appreciated. TaPosted 2 years ago # -
Taskled in the states make the bflex.
give him an e mail (george) great guy very helpful. he may be able to sort one out for you.
cheaper than cutter too
Posted 2 years ago # -
Right, I've been measuring up & there's not enough room in a Lumi can for a Cutter kit unless:
1. you replace the switch with a much lower profile one or have it on a flying lead.
2. you do likewise with the power plug.
There simple isn't enough room for the control board in the can, you could remote mount the board in the battery or have an intermediate control box to house the board & switches but then you lose the thermal bonding facility.
My other concern is that a Lumi can is very thin & the housings I use are only just able to provide enough material to dissipate the heat. You could fit those finned heatsinks from RC car motors to the outside of the Lumi housing but I wouldn't like the idea of 'fin to face interface' in case of a crash!
The good news is I've got some of the housing I use & will price up the cost of converting to triple & quad Cutter kits for use with most existing battery types.
In this pic from the right you can see my conversions, 3 extended cans I made for an upcoming 1000 lumen HID profect, then a Lumi can & finaly a Trailtech HID.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I mentioned the lack of space earlier in thread.
you can fit a Bflex driver in it's the new sqaure cheapo single current driver that won't fit.
Also a lot of people have been running these at 1 amp with no heatsink and not had problems, as long as you switch to a lower power when stationary. I would not run without some form of heatsink/heattransfer block but the more you look into it the more i think they do not have to be that big.
as long as they make good contact with the casing they should be fine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
If anyone cracks the Lumi-LED conversion i'd also be willing to pay someone with the knowledge to do the conversion, there's not a hope in hell of me being able to do it
got the 12w&20w halogen set up at the mo, have ordered a set of dx lights, (bar mounted) so only looking to convert 1 lamp to led.. for use on the helmetPlease.
Posted 2 years ago # -
If someone does come up with an idiot-proof drop-in conversion (at a reasonable price) then I'd also be interested.
Posted 2 years ago # -
idiot-proof
bit of a tall order that one.
i'll try my best
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cutter kit with medium optic . . .
Optic + triple LED MCPCB protrudes 13.5mm into the case
Power connector can be reduced to about 11mm depth with some tab bending
Case is 40.5mm deepYou need to replace the switch anyway for a momentary, I have one which would work at 11mm depth (same as the power connector).
Bflex is 8.5mm deep (I want to use one for my kit)
13.5+8.5+11=33mm, which leaves 7mm for a heat transfer slug . . .
it will fit, but after doing some tests today I cannot believe I can run 3 x XPG's at 1 amp and not have overheating issues in a lumi can . . . however I also have a couple of lumi HID cases which are much larger and perfect for the job . . .
The heat generation is only a problem at 1 amp, at 750mA the heat output is substantially reduced and it would probably be ok without an external heatsink . . .
However, fit an external heatsink and it should work . . .
Very much a viable option and probably cheaper than a new HID bulb for HID owners . . .
3 x XPG's consume 10W which is pretty much identical to a lumi HID, now I have a test rig working I'm gonna do some illumination comparisons, if it ever stops raining . . .
Fd
Posted 2 years ago # -
epicsteve - Member
If someone does come up with an idiot-proof drop-in conversion (at a reasonable price) then I'd also be interested.
+1
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've found that 12mm is the smallest heat transfer slug that dosen't cause over heating @1amp in my housings & they are made of 50% thicker alloy than Lumis & I'd like to think the control board was not in danger of rubbing up against the terminals of the switch or power socket while bouncing down a rocky decent.
HID lamps can be had for as little as £53 or upgraded to 1000 lumens for about £110 & the Lumi HIDs produce 10W of output, they consume nearly 14WPosted 2 years ago # -
have to agree Lumi HID housings are perfect IMHO.
Trouble is they won't sell em anymore
here's mine
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've a cutter 3 LED with the current cheapo (big) driver - filed down - fitted into a Lumi can. Not sure what the heat sink is, but I know it involves a 2P piece (or part thereof), and it gets warm stationary in the house, but out on the trail - no problem.
A mate built it and I'm running it as a helmet light. Going to build the other can up with the narrow optic as a bar light - will try to get pics of build.
Uses original switch too!Posted 2 years ago # -
Chucky i've got a trailtech housing unit if you can convert that?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cheers Chucky.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Without bulk import the HID bulbs are more costly though, and you will pay repeatedly for a HID bulb whereas an LED conversion is ball park the same cost (perhaps less) but much more robust . . .
I'll probably put the XPG kit I am testing at the moment in a HID case and run them side by side with a HID for a while before committing to any more work . . .
My power testing rig shows a lumi HID consuming 11W steady state . . .
I remember when I made some lights out of a huge gel lead acid battery with some MR16 lamps in plumbing fittings . . . times have changed . . .
Fd
Posted 2 years ago # -
is it a HID housing erny?
would think something could be done if it is. Snaps has a piccie of one a bit earler in the thread. The black one on the right.
it's finding someone with a lathe is my problem. Hence why I was chuffed to find the 33mm dia ones from ebay. They only need filing down slightly to fit the Halogen housing.
do you want to send it to me to see if it's doable (I think it should be )
Posted 2 years ago # -
fergus what's the rough cost of doing this conversion?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Well, the 3 x XPG solution produces far more light than the lumi HID, two images same focal length, aperture, shutter speed and ISO so a reasonable comparison of brightness, the LED beam is much brighter but also wider, a very brief look in the real world outside seems to suggest that you would never want to use a HID when you can just about replace one bulb with this setup for approx the same cost . . . if you have a can . . . the LED solution is almost bang on 10 Watts and I got 3.93 hours at full power out of a standard 13.2V lumi NiMh battery with shutdown at 0.9V per cell . . . the HID consumes more power, produces less light, this is with the medium cutter triple optic, I'd go for a narrow however this is bright enough that it's not such a huge deal I think . . .
HID http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziplockk/4083595720/
LED http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziplockk/4082835225/Whether this will work in a small can is debatable, however using a smaller and simpler fixed output regulator and lower current LED's may produce a more viable option . . . trouble is the taskled ones seem to be the most efficient and best of the crop . . .
Fd
Posted 2 years ago # -
I really want to use XPGs @ 700mA to replace my XPE R2s but the lack of a dedicated optic is making me wait (that & the fact that I get over 3 hours & over 2000 lumens from my XREs @ 1000mA) It would be nice to get the same light & runtime from smaller batteries with cooler running.
Have you seen the new generation of HIDs?
http://www.solarc.net/ click on 'lamp' the figures are impressive.
Compared to my XREs the seem to 'throw' more much better penetration.
I've two on order to play with.Posted 2 years ago # -
Kinda666 rekons his XPG triple with the usual cutter triple narrow optic are spot on. He does run them at 1amp though
Posted 2 years ago # -
fergus if i can pick up a hid can would you be interested in undertaking a conversion? if your interested and want to discuss it e-mail is in profile, i'm only half an hour down the road from you. Need to get some better lighting sorted out for doing the puffer.
jim
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ok . . .
Spent some time on this . . .
For anybody interested in lumi HOD conversion . . .
Here are some measurements that will be useful, apologies for the handwriting . . .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ziplockk/4089128329/
The green part is the bit that needs made . . . and I shall fire up the lathe this week and do so . . .
Measurements are correct for the cutter MR11 kit with medium optic, I'm not sure whether the spot optic is the same size but I'll probably order one and see . . . one spot and one flood is my preference . . .
Basically the lumi HID case makes things easy with a nice step in the interior making the slug design very simple, 20mm thick, 10mm at 35.5mm and 10mm at 37.8mm with a small hole (5mm) through the centre for the power supply to the LEDS . . . loads of room for a bFlex too the interior of the front of the case is not a simple profile so I'm not looking for a tight fit, but the rear part is a cylinder so the 35.5mm part with some thermal compound should provide a perfect thermal path to the case which itself is nice and chunky . . . I will be bonding the mcpcb and slug together and the optic onto the mcpcb and also using just a touch of silicone sealer to waterproof the optic . . .
I'll be replacing the standard switch with a waterproof momentary one from RS
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=283-8986
Does away with the wee rubber things that I always seem to break . . .
All useful data . . .
Costing, parts are less than a lumi HID bulb from lumi, but more than 50 quid . . . time, well you wouldn't do it if you were paying for your time would you
Fd
Posted 2 years ago # -
My thinking for an extension tube was this:
rear view:
front view:
the recess on the rear view is threaded & would screw onto the threads on the normal lumi halogen can. The driver would sit in the back of the can & wires pass through the hole into the front.
The front view shows where the optic & mcpcb would sit. I added some holes to the front flange (that is thicker than the others) to add some kind of front face. I am guessing this would be required to hold the optic in place.
OD of fins might be a bit too much but just a starting point, really.Did this while I had a spare 10 mins at work one day, and keep meaning to progress it a bit further.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Now to think about a smaller version for standard lumi cans although case temp would perhaps be an issue ? . . . This setup with 3 x XGP at 1A stabilises at about 55C in a 18C environment in still air . . . what regulators were used in the other lumi sized conversions ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I successfully put a cutter kit in a lumi can with the switch in situ and a 5 mm plate to mount the led on.
Posted 2 years ago # -
TJ, what LED's and regulator did you use ?
Fd
Posted 2 years ago # -
cutter triple r2 IIRC. Narrow beam optic and a bflex
Posted 2 years ago # -
fergusd, is that a standard Lumi HID casing, just with your added heatsink block?
Presumably the tapered front face has a lip on to secure the optic? Is this sealed with an o-ring?Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
