Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Report it or let it be? Asbestos
  • convert
    Full Member

    Out running off road this morning through a section that is notoriously muddy. There is a section where you climb over a style that can be knee deep in mud in the winter. I'm not sure it's the land owners fault through poor drainage as the whole area is really bad.

    Anyway, I was really pleased when I got to the particularly bad bit as the landowner has clearly done some work ready for the winter and put down a couple of tonnes of hardcore to "soak up" the mud. Access to the area is really hard so it must have been tricky to do. The only snag is, 90% of the hardcore is broken up bits of asbestos concrete roofing sheets – nicely crushing into handy skimming stone sized pieces . I'm assuming this would not be considered best practice!

    Does anyone who actually knows about asbestos (not just knows it's bad news when interfered with, which is about the limit of my knowledge) care to comment of the health risk of this. I can't imagine this is what you should do with an asbestos roof, but it's in an open air spot somewhere you are not going to sit around snorting the stuff up. Also, if it should be sorted and you don't know the who the landowner is (miles from next farm building so wouldn't have a clue) who do you inform of this sort of stuff – I'm assuming the district council, but which dept?

    I'm sure there are loads of things I do everyday that are far more dangerous, but somehow it does not feel right to be running over asbestos! My old man was in the Navy and tells of visiting men working on submarines in dock, angle grinding their way through asbestos stuffed bulkheads with their hair white with the stuff and using a hanky for a mask!

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    90% of my granddads colleagues have gone the way of asbestosis-it is a nasty disease-not to be under estimated.

    I would have thought environmental health would like to know about this.

    Kuco
    Full Member

    The Environment Agency might also be interested.

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    Drac
    Full Member

    We played with it as kids as it was lying all over the place from old buildings and dumped in a tip. Was great fun putting it on fires to get it to crack. I'm still here with no effects and I bet the asbestos is still I the old tip with it perfect line to the water course.

    Still can be nasty stuff.

    fubar
    Free Member

    How would you know it's asbestos ? I thought it required a test to identify. My garage roof might have been asbestos but would require a sample sending for testing to prove either way (but assuming the worst). Just because it's corrugated concrete does not = asbestos.

    convert
    Full Member

    Good point, but in this case I think you can see it. Quite often if you look at the cross section of broken bits, you can see wisps of it embedded in the cement although they were replaced with some other fibre when it was banned. I picked up a bit and had a look & the wisps were present but as you say could be cellulose.

    tiger_roach
    Free Member

    I vaguely remember hearing that the way asbestos is used in garage roofs means it's pretty safe – I too played with the stuff in fires as a kid!

    Three_Fish
    Free Member

    Why not report it to a relevant local authority and let them ascertain the risk and the action to take? Instead of writing about it on the interwebs, just email the Council's environment services. I honestly don't understand what your dilemma is.

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    Let environmental health know about it, they will sample and test and deal with the landowner along with the environmental agency if it is asbestos. Fibre re-inforced corrugated concrete sheets are still produced. My 2002 vintage garage has a roof made of the stuff.
    Drac you won't know if you've got away with it until 40 years plus have passed and even then you can't be sure.

    convert
    Full Member

    My dilemma was – what is the dept called to ring – and the "environmental services" dept might well be the answer – assuming you just didn't make that dept up. Thanks

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    You want the environmental health officer. Council equivalent of HSE inspector.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Something I read a little while ago pointed out that there's two types of asbestos, (apart from the blue, brown and white versions), and the stuff used for roofing is actually harmless, it's the powdered and fibrous sort used for pipe lagging and boiler insulation that caused all the problems.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Well my Dad worked amongst the same material, ex mental hospital, since he was 18 and he's still going at 62. Time will tell I'm sure but it depends on many things including the kind of asbestos. We smashed it up buy were always outside and not in confined spaces. My dad wouldn't let us build our dens with it.

    tazzymtb
    Full Member

    have a look here

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/commonproblems/asbestos.htm

    he's been a naughty boy as he's effectively fly tipped a special waste 😕

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    White asbestos used in concrete is (relatively) safe, as long as you're not snorting it like coke. Large parts of the north used to be covered in a layer of asbestos dust. Blue asbestos is the killer.

    tazzymtb
    Full Member

    asbestos cement is lower risk, NOT SAFE! due to fact that the fibres (cement usually has 10-15% asbestos) are bonded into the matrix and are therefor less liable to become airborne and inhaled. If the cement is smashed to buggery or has been in a fire then the potential for fibre release is higher.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    the stuff used for roofing is actually harmless

    As mentioned, it's not "harmless". If it was, we would still be using it.

    Marin
    Free Member

    Report it, especially if you go there a lot.
    Roofing asbestos as in the corrugated kind is fine as long as you don't saw, cut,drill or burn it. If it's sat on the roof its fine, anywhere else not.
    All asbestos is a risk especially when dumped.
    My Uncle was one of those men working in the Navy with asbestos around 1948. Said it was like being in a blizzard in the engine rooms. I went to his funeral on Friday, my cousin is waiting for the hospital report as the specialist he saw "suspected" asbestos caused the cancer. It took a long time but it caught up and was very unpleasant.

    NZCol
    Full Member

    I watched my Dad die of Mesothelioma last year and it was not a pretty thing to see. He was 'still going' at 63 and dead before 64….

    ntreid
    Free Member

    You really need to ring the EA to report it, 0800 807060. Please.

    They'll make the assessment of whether it's dangerous, how dangerous, and whether they or the Local Authority will deal with it. (With fly-tipping, the LA deals with small-scale stuff, and EA takes the 'big, bad or nasty' cases.)

    Cougar
    Full Member

    On a related note,

    How active an interest are the EA / Council likely to take in existing structures?

    Reason I ask is, I have a mostly-demolished garage which needs pulling down before it falls down and (as far as I can tell) it's made from the asbestos-concrete stuff. Is there any point in me contacting these people to get it disposed of, or am I stuck with paying a builder a large wedge out of my own pocket to come and destroy it safely?

    rkk01
    Free Member

    REPORT IT

    There are three main types of asbestos:

    crocidolite – blue asbestos
    amosite – brown asbestos
    chrysotile – white asbests

    Use of crocidolite and amosite was banned in ACMs (asbestos containing materials) in 1985. Chrysotile was banned in 1999.

    Asbestos cement products (roof sheets, drainage products etc) often contain chrysotile, but can also contain amosite. These products are low risk compared to lagging (ie loose insulation fibre) because the asbestos fibres are bound in the cement matrix. Where these products are "in use" they can be retained as long as they are in good condition and are managed – ie there is a formal system to assess condition etc. (The duty to manage does not apply to domestic situations – unless rented, in which case the landlord / agent have responsibility)

    However, fly tipped waste materials are / will be subject to accelerated damage, erosion and potential fibre release – and of course, the fly tipping itself is a criminal act.

    There is some debate over the relative dangers of chrysotile, but most bodies agree that there are dangers associated with the material – and in any case, there is nothing to say that amosite is not present.

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Thing with asbestos is that it'll be 40-50 years after the exposure that you become ill.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Quick question:

    Our loft is insulated with about 2" thick matting, how do you know if its asbestos? We want to put down more insulation and board it out, but it could be more effort than its worth if it has to be done by a contractor.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    You can send a sample away to be analysed, I think.

    rkk01
    Free Member

    Our loft is insulated with about 2" thick matting, how do you know if its asbestos?

    In a residential setting it is probably a Rockwool type silicate based insualtion. How old is the house, and does the insulation have an orangey colour to it?

    Artex, on the other hand, was one product used domestically that did contain asbestos.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    The 'house' Is a flat above a shop, built in the 50's, its an orange coloured matting.

    I'm not going up there again without a mask, as soon as you move, whatever it is gives off clouds of dust!

    rkk01
    Free Member

    Orangey stuff is normally glass / silicate based. Have analysed orangey fibrous lagging quite a few times and never had a positive on asbestos fibres reported back.

    Right to use a mask anyhow. Impossible to rule out asbestos and the glass fibre / silicate stuff is not the best thing for your lungs…

    Macavity
    Free Member

    "Access to the area is really hard so it must have been tricky to do."
    Does appear that it will have been the landowner, but cowboy builders do fly tip in relatively remote areas and it is a big problem for some farmers on the edge of towns etc..
    Asbestos cement is not ordinarily considered to de a hazard: but if used in drinking-water pipes can cause intestinal / bowel cancer.

    The HSE used to have a book EH40 that had a limit for occupational exposure to asbestos of 0.9 fibres per litre of air. For example if you are breathing at 60 litres a minute for an hour thats 0.9 x 60 x 60 = 3240 fibres that you would be allowed to breath in in the work place, only one fibre is needed to do damage. For the farmer it is a work place, for you it is not.
    The thing about asbestos cement is that the fibres are bound up in the cement even when broken. For fibres (dust) to be breathed in and cause damage they need to be of a respirable size, somewhere around 2 – 6 microns, smaller than a lump of cement stuck to a single fibre.
    To get stuck in the lung it needs to be bigger than 1 micron (otherwise it is just breathed out again) to get to the lungs it needs to be less than approx 20 microns (no two people agree on this).

    Separate to the asbestos cement issue, identifing asbestos is very rough and ready. It is a matter of someone having a look at it under an optical microscope and having a guess. Its not really a test. The asbestos appears more opaque compared to MMMF / glass / rockwool when held up to the light.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    For fibres (dust) to be breathed in and cause damage they need to be of a respirable size, somewhere around 2 – 6 microns,

    to get to the lungs it needs to be less than approx 20 microns (no two people agree on this).

    How's a fibre between 6 and 20 microns going to get to your lungs?

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    Separate to the asbestos cement issue, identifing asbestos is very rough and ready. It is a matter of someone having a look at it under an optical microscope and having a guess. Its not really a test. The asbestos appears more opaque compared to MMMF / glass / rockwool when held up to the light.

    Not strictly true, you're confusing fibre count (where they do take a guess) – for occupational exposure levels with fibre identifcation. Positive identification is done using UV fluorescence.

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    How's a fibre between 6 and 20 microns going to get to your lungs?

    You breathe it in.

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