There really is a nasty part isnt there?

?

Remploy costs a huge amount of cash for a work based scheme, for relatively few people to benefit from, the ones who atend Remploy if suitrable should be integrated into the real workforce of the country,not have a dedicated place for them for life.

While there is a case for the disabled to work in the wider economy, instead of the Remploy factory method, what I have just said is being used as a cover story to simply cut spending.

Reminds me of Careless community in the 80’s.

It does show what utter scum this Government and those who voted for it are.

remploy give many people a reason to get out of bed in the morning, **** all work is ever done.. but lots of people get to have a half normal life because of it. lots of its employees would not be able to work any were else, as they dont care if you dont feel like working and instead talk to youre mate and or waterbottel for a few hours, or make strange noise jump up and down etc..

EL-bent what a gross and childish grand sweeping statement that is! What project says is a fair summary of the situation. While not nice tough decisions need to be made as we are in the s**t!
Scum is a fairly strong word as this is directed at me…all I can say is I hope to never have the pleasure of your company.

It was interesting to hear Labour saying it was wrong to close Remploy today, despite having had a pretty good crack at it themselves a few years ago, and using the same uncomfortable but valid argument the government had just used.

It was always intended to be a route into the wider workforce, but ended up being just as institutionalising as a lot of the other relics of health and social care which have long since been replaced. Would anyone now suggest that people with learning disabilities or mental ill health should be locked up in an institution? Well, some people would I guess. In fact my guess is that someone will in a minute…

Why wouldn’t it be better for people with disabilities to be supported into regular jobs? The problem is that the support this government will provide will be underfunded and insufficient.

Remploys total budget seems to be £60m- the big budgets don’t miss that sort of money, and it won’t make the slightest bit of difference to the overall financial state of the country. I think it’s a pretty sad move, especially considering the Tory party’s pre-election promises to Remploy employees.

But maybe the cold equations justify it. Liz Sayce reckons the same money will help twice as many disabled people if redeployed. Will it have the same profound effect? Who knows. Sad to account for people’s lives in this way though.

bol – Member

Why wouldn’t it be better for people with disabilities to be supported into regular jobs?

Because unemployment is high and there aren’t enough jobs to go round for the fully fit. Remploy does something that the private sector can’t.

Remploy costs a huge amount of cash for a work based scheme, for relatively few people to benefit from, the ones who atend Remploy if suitrable should be integrated into the real workforce of the country,not have a dedicated place for them for life.

The question isnt really what’s the cost of doing but what’s the cost of not doing it. Remploy might actually be the most cost effective way of providing for those who use it. I knew someone who worked for a Remploy type project – it was a major part of their life.

a well run institution such as Botton village is a **** of a lot better than no care in the community, were the mentally ill are left to wonder the streets.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EJrFl_Z9D8&feature=related[/video]

A radio news report earlier today said that the previous round of closures of Remploy outlets has led to the vast majority of workers being on benefits and not employed in other companies as the politicians imply.

The report also suggested that the biggest problem with Remploy is not the workforce but an ineffectual and over-sized management.

Whilst the theory about supporting people with disabilities into the workforce is fine, I have a very large question whether it works in reality, especially at a time of huge unemployment.

As an earlier poster pointed out Remploy gives many people a purpose and dignity in life. The Government seems quite happy to subsidise lots of other activities e.g. rail, and perpetual overspends in the MoD, so why not keep Remploy going and change the management.

oldagedpredator – Member

Remploy costs a huge amount of cash for a work based scheme, for relatively few people to benefit from, the ones who atend Remploy if suitrable should be integrated into the real workforce of the country,not have a dedicated place for them for life.

The question isnt really what’s the cost of doing but what’s the cost of not doing it. Remploy might actually be the most cost effective way of providing for those who use it. I knew someone who worked for a Remploy type project – it was a major part of their life.

The thing is if it was working it wouldnt require a huge subsidy, and would now be bought by a large manufacturing company to carry on its work.

Most people who go to work , make it a huge part of their lives.Not just the mentally handicapped,

no one really says mentally handicapped anymore [ learning difficulty would be the term these days] and remploy work with the disabled which means those that re physically disabled as well as those who have a learning difficulty*
It is noble and correct to hope that those who need support should be supported in the community to have real jobs it is wishful thinking to think this will actually happen disabled workers are probably less productive than non disabled workers and certainly require more support employers know this and that is the bottom line I would bet most of those who do have jobs work in the public sector or charities and very few work in the “real world”.
If 10 % o fthose employed find work I will be very surprised

i think this will have the same effect as closing pits and other acts in that it will just make a lot of people unemployed as there are F all opportunities out there at the minute

* i dont think you meant to be offensive but many/most would find that term unacceptable

learning difficulty would be the term these days

Well there’s no need to make them feel bad by pointing out that they have difficulty learning stuff 😐

How about “special needs” ? At least it would make them feel special.

I read that the government wasn’t actually cutting the budget and that it has been ring fenced. The article said that loads of disability charities have been saying that the money could be spent far better instead of keeping factories open. Apparently Remploy costs a load to run and the money could be used to employ people in the private sector.

Initially I was shocked and thought it was well out of order but know knowing most of the disability charities support the idea I’m thinking a bit differently.

no one really says mentally handicapped anymore [ learning difficulty would be the term these days] and remploy work with the disabled which means those that re physically disabled as well as those who have a learning difficulty*

* i dont think you meant to be offensive but many/most would find that term unacceptable

I spent 6 yers working with people with both Physical disabilites, learning difficulties , mental illness, and lovely people suffering from senile dementia, the names have changed for whatever reason, but the people are still the same, as are the peple who dont want them working or living near them, eg out of the asylum, remploy created a huge sterile environmnet for the workers, and subsidised by the government,look at the number of people employed and the size of the factories, all that is happening is the factories are closing and can easily be bought by outside companies for them to use and employ the same staff, eg TUPED.

Its sad when workplaces close,but thats how things are now.

Interesting that everyone thinks they know what’s best for the people employed at Remploy, yet I see very little evidence that anyone has asked those affected. Oh, yes, because they’re… well… y’know..

My mate used to cycle to work, everyday, in all weathers, and I asked him how he kept it up in the dark and the rain. He said ‘There is a guy who stands at the bus stop who works at Remploy, and everyday when I see him he says hello and smiles at me, and I think that if he can get up and go everyday, so can I’.

Is everyone happy to live in a country where we shut this sort of stuff down to save a few quid?

Never mind that we could pay for it with a few bonuses, or a bit less civil service champagne.

Shame. Shame on us all.

Yes it is ring fenced but the issue is whether it will actually deliver jobs I am going for highly unlikely

I will put that to the committee at the next meeting of the thought police ernie.
they did used to use that but I forget the actual reason why it fell from grace

Interesting that everyone thinks they know what’s best for the people employed at Remploy, yet I see very little evidence that anyone has asked those affected. Oh, yes, because they’re… well… y’know..

when does any firm or company ask its workers what they want, and if they do, do they actually take any notice of whats been decided by the management.

Why havent we got huge training centres set up to retrain unemployed office workers or others who have lost their jobs,or ones who cant function in the real world of work, cost and the realisation that when they are trained there is no work for them to do, that doesnt require huge subsidies to work.

Well put crikey. Its about our society and what we stand for not money

It is an utter disgrace. To save a few pennies, to make a cheap and nasty political point, that we are prepared to do this to vulnerable people.

There is some quote about estimating the level of a civilsation by the way it treats old people, this is a better way of estimating the worth of ours.

Crikey, no one complained when the old asylums where closed down, places that where home to thousands of residents/patients, where there where large grounds to walk in safely, to rest and watch nature, where semi skilled jobs where available to the residents, offering them a realistic work experience,and a routine, where there where trained staff,and caring staff,where the residents felt safe and trusted the system all closed down and the buildings and land sold to make a profit, where the residents where shipped off to small houses in the comunity, possibly being forced to live with people they didnt like, being booted out every morning, whatever the weather, to walk the streets, to fight , shoplift or comit crimes, sometimes to get back into an acute psychie hospital for a respite stay.

Nobody complained then, it was seen as politically correct not to have large institutins geared to one typoe of person, and it Failed, then and will fail now.

Remploy can and should be taken over by a private company for a few quid, and run as a social enterprise, that way the workers keep their jobs.

Some people did complain, project, but those days were wrong; the idea of care in the community is fine, just the reality suffered because of underfunding. Now we seem to be in the same position; ‘it’s too expensive’ to help to look after people with some kind of dignity, with some kind of humanity.

Lets just shoot them; bullets are cheap.

I only ever saw the ones [ about 5 in great detail] for people with a LD did you ever visit one?
they were as far from that description as it is possible to get
it was not about PC it was about treating people with respect and dignity they were utter shitholes where people were just left to do whatever the **** they wanted but we could not see them [ unlike when they were in the community suddenly it was problem “normals” had to deal with ]
They were ignored they were in multiple occupancy mass wards, biting themselves for stimulation was common as were a variety of other shocking sights. they were all worse than every prison I have ever seen and some of the sights were like how I would imagine a Victorian asylum to look like [ for thst is what they were] with the feel of a concentration camp

I seriously doubt you ever visited one at the time
I worked to close them down and resettle folk at the time and i only ever met one peron out of about a thousand or so who missed it and wanted to return. He had a serious physical disability and disliked the way normal folk stared at him everywhere he went.

Remploy can and should be taken over by a private company for a few quid, and run as a social enterprise, that way the workers keep their jobs.

I know of no organisation that employs people with disabilities exclusively that makes a profit or gets anywhere near it tbh [ my knowledge is out of date though]

those days where not wrong,care in the comunity failed, due to the general public not wanting people with merntal or physical disabilities living near them, fear of their homes being devalued being a major concern.
There was plenty of funding,just lack of suitable staff to manage it,and the speed it was forced to happen.

junkyard, the two i worked in where nothing like you describe, i seriously hope the management where sacked,after you made a formal complaint.or perhaps you dint want to rock the sinking boat.

project – Member

Remploy can and should be taken over by a private company for a few quid, and run as a social enterprise, that way the workers keep their jobs.

How does that solve the problem? A private company will face the same issues a public one does- ie, it’s hard to run a profitable factory staffed entirely with people who nobody else wants to employ. So they’ll end up a subsidy magnet and presumably will also want to see some profit from the venture.

Perhaps the reason that some charties support the closure of Remploy is because in the dog-eat-dog world of charity funding they see an opportunity to gain more funding for themselves?

And on the issue of subsides, many regional development funds end up ie, we, end up paying way more than £25k (IF that is an accurate figure) for each job ‘created’.

The welsh assembly governmnet is looking at making or taking over the Welsh factories as social enterprises.

I’m with crikey…

Shame. Shame on us all