careful now!!!

I’m an atheist and abhor all organised religion especially when the ‘rules’ go against common sense or put people in danger. The rules about fasting seem a little sketchy as some websites say 3am-10pm and others say dawn to dusk, according to the BBC they aren’t even allowed to drink water!!. Regardless of the times it means that there are people employed in positions which might potentially put members of the public in danger. If you’re in a job working into the evening and follow the muslim faith then there must come a point if you haven’t eaten or drunk anything all day you would incapable of carrying out your duties to a suffcient standard. Driving a bus for example or a truck, working as Dr or a Police Officer. Is there any medical types on here that could identify how a sustained period of abstinence from food or water would affect the body?

Have a cheeky doughnut while no-one’s looking ?

On a hot day, if someone really annoyed you, I doubt you’d be able to summon up the required volume of liquid to give their moccasins more than a light sprinkle

there was a Muslim officer on one of those police progs a while back who had to give up on a foot chase because it was Ramadan and he had no energy to keep running.

As a west London boy; an area with huge Asian/Muslim content I can assure you that there’s a big difference as to what the spell book says and what’s actually done.

For members of the Muslim community who may be fasting during the holy month of Ramadan, it’s important to balance food and fluid intake between fasts and especially to drink enough water. During hot weather, dehydration is a common and serious risk.

Dr Lise Llewellyn, strategic director of public health, said: “Please drink lots of water or other fluids in this hot weather. Also make sure to check on others in your community who may be at greater risk.

“If you are fasting and you start to feel unwell, disoriented or confused, or collapse or faint, you should stop fasting and have a drink of water or other fluid. This is especially important for older adults, those with poorly controlled medical conditions such as low/high blood pressure, diabetes and those who are receiving dialysis treatment. The Muslim Council of Britain has confirmed that breaking fast in such conditions is allowable under Islamic law.”

from my local council website 🙂

I thought it said “ramadan fisting”. Wondered if I was missing something…

I seed a Catholic eatin’ a sausage on a Friday once.

I met a Bangladeshi man in St Ives who was worried about the effects of Ramadan fasting on the NHS.

I think it depends massively where you are. I worked in Morocco for a few months some years ago & not one of my Moroccan colleagues would even dream of breaking the fast before time.

tbh if it was me I’d struggle to get to work in the morning, what with being awake from 10-3 each night, scoffing anything within arms length.

Not a religionist, but fair play to those that manage it.

Why don’t they do it in the winter? Muslim at the north pole is currently well and truly ****.

ivornardon2 – Member
As a west London boy; an area with huge Asian/Muslim content I can assure you that there’s a big difference as to what the spell book says and what’s actually done.

You mean not every muslim is devout and that not every asian is a muslim? 😯

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Lifer. Its shocking innit? I’ve known one or two of those Islamic types who…. and you best brace yourself for this …. are partial to the odd beer too. 😯

*faints*

I’ve always wondered what a muslim living up by the Arctic circle would do when Ramadan is in June/July, apart from migrate south!

I met a Bangladeshi man in St Ives who was worried about the effects of Ramadan fasting on the NHS.

Chuckles at Dave 😉

binners – no! that’s not right. Everyone knows they are all jihad nutcases with a fondness for exploding backpacks!

They also all look the same as well

***some of the above is trolling***

You mean not every muslim is devout and that not every asian is a muslim?

Its shocking innit? I’ve known one or two of those Islamic types who…. and you best brace yourself for this …. are partial to the odd beer too.

This news has just hit the offices of the daily fail….

In other news, I skipped breakfast this morning and now I’m ravenous, guess I’m not cut out for this religion lark 🙁

They’re all it it though. Bloody hypocrites! Look!! Just look at this!!!

A Jewish bloke and his accomplices making off with a job lot of sausage rolls!

Almighty Allah has promised great reward for those who fast, whilst severe punishment is in store for those who do NOT fast.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/sheffield/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8200000/8200019.stm

I have also known muslims who smoke tabs and drink beer. I wonder what punishment they’re in for? being a muslim seems punishment enough.

Dunno that it answers any of your specific questions OP, but the below was circulated round our place and provides what I thought was some interesting general stuff about ramadan and fasting, and impacts in the workplace:

Ramadan for non-Muslims
In the next few weeks, you may come into work and find your co-worker taking a power nap at 9:30am. At break time, you’ll notice she is missing in the discussion about Harry Potter over at the water cooler. At the staff meeting, you will be shocked when she is offered coffee and cookies and refuses ! By lunch time, your concern about her missing at the water cooler compels you to investigate the situation.

Then you remember what she had mentioned last week over a delicious Sushi lunch. Flooded with relief, you go up to her desk, and proclaim with much gusto, “Ramadan Mubarak (Moo-baa-rak)!” Ramadan’s Blessings to you!

The month of Ramadan is a happy occasion; it is the month that the Muslim holy book, the Koran, was revealed to our Prophet Muhammad. Muslims are called by their religion to celebrate the month by coming together in worship, fasting each day for thirty days from dawn until sunset.

While this may seem like a tremendous feat, consider this: Fasting while working is an even greater endeavor. Make it a little easier on your Muslim colleague by following a couple of simple rules:

The Greeting

The next time you find yourself in line for the copier with your Muslim colleague, feel free to wish him or her “Ramadan Mubarak” or “Ramadan Kareem” or simply “Happy Ramadan.” We absolutely love it when people acknowledge Ramadan and are happy about it.

Positive Reinforcement

Keep in mind that we’re fasting voluntarily and, actually, pretty joyously (despite the tired, sad look on our face). We’re not forced to fast. In fact, we wait for this month the whole year, so you don’t have to feel sorry for us. We are not trying to be rescued (other than by that ticking clock taking us closer to sunset!).

The Lunch Meeting

Most of us understand that life goes on, and so do lunch meetings, and if we are participating in them while fasting, don’t worry about eating in front of us. This is just part of the test. We appreciate your acknowledging our fast, but don’t feel the need to discuss it every time you show up in our line of sight holding food.

Just try not to eat smelly foods. . . and please ignore our stomach when it growls at your sandwich.

No Water

It’s true — we can’t drink water either. Again, this is part of the Ramadan test and our exercise of spiritual discipline. This is probably why you may not find your friend at the water cooler. Try switching the break time conversation to another location in the office. You should probably also let them skip their turn for the coffee run this time.

Halitosis

While God may tell us that the breath of the one fasting is like “fragrant musk” to Him, we know that you might not experience the same. Understand why we’re standing a good foot away from you when speaking or simply using sign language to communicate.

Iftar Dinner

Consider holding a Ramadan Iftar dinner . Iftar is the Arabic word for the meal served at sunset when we break the fast (it’s literally our ‘breakfast’). This will be a nice gesture for Muslim co-workers and will give others the opportunity to learn about and partake in Ramadan festivities. Although there is no specific type of meal designated for iftars, it is tradition to break the fast with a sweet and refreshing date before moving to a full-on dinner

Fasting is not an excuse

Although energy levels might be low, the point of fasting is not to slack off from our other duties and responsibilities. We believe that we are rewarded for continuing to work and produce during our fasts. Fasting is not a reason to push meetings, clear schedules, or take a lighter load on projects.

That said – we don’t mind if you help work in a nap time for us!

Ramadan is a time for community and charity. There are iftar dinners held at mosques every night (you are welcome to join the fun – even if you’re not fasting!) and night time prayer vigils throughout the month. We give charity in abundance and make an extra effort to partake in community service. Throughout it all, we maintain an ambiance of joy and gratitude for all that God has blessed us with, and reflect on those in this world who have been given much less. This is a time for all of us–not just Muslims–to renew our spiritual intentions, increase our knowledge, and change ourselves for the better.

I’ve not really read this thread just the title but as it contains religious content I’m going to declare you all dail mail reading bigots and leave in a huff saying I’m offended at the racism.

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Not sure if some joke is going over my head here, but that’s nonsense. It’s ramadan now, including in the arctic circle. Depending on how you interpret things, you can argue to fast following Mecca time, nearest “muslim country” time, or just go for a hardcore 23 hours fasting if you’re up really north in Kiruna, Tromsø or wherever. Even 18 or 19 hours fasting in the UK must be pretty harsh, I don’t think I could cope with that.

bajsyckel are you having a go at a religion for not being logical?

I was on a Neilson windsurf holiday in Turkey in Jul/Aug and one of the advanced instructors was a Muslim.

He practised fasting to the extent he wouldn’t even swallow his own spit (not that he could summon much) , was on the water most of the day, and it didn’t seem to slow him down much.

It’s perfectly possible to function normally and observe the fast tbh- it mostly sounds daft because we’re so used to food and drink on hand but humans are rigged for long days and gaps between food and drink. Not everyone can do it easily, mind some folks adapt better than others… My colleague in the office takes it as a holiday just because she knows it affects her work (and turns her into a horrible maniac) but then she is a constant all-day snacker fueled entirely by caffeine.

ocrider – Member

I’ve always wondered what a muslim living up by the Arctic circle would do when Ramadan is in June/July, apart from migrate south!

Answer from one of our arctic project chaps- it’s not really covered in the book or hadith for obvious reasons, and there’s all manner of conflicting advice so he just applied logic and observes a Mecca day cycle. I think he’s ready to argue the point with the almighty if need be, possibly with powerpoint presentations.

Young chap at our place is devout and does the fast thing properly. He loses shed loads of weight and gets a bit tired towards the end. Have asked him loads of the daft questions and found his answers very interesting (similar to above), he has my respect given his take on Ramadan. Made me consider that a little fasting and personal introspection would not be to bad a thing, having said that I’m a coward.

the op could come and work a shift with me if he thinks that nhs types can’t make it thru a 12hr shift and more without eating or drinking and don’t do so on a regular basis.

I’ve gone along with the Ramadan thing a couple of times – either geography or solidarity with mates – and I’ve it both interesting and not at all burdensome. plus, as the token non-muslim I got extra special end of day food in all cases.

bajsyckel – Member

@zippykona
They do do it in Winter. Ramadan is determined on a lunar basis, so it shifts throughout the year.

Not sure if some joke is going over my head here, but that’s nonsense. It’s ramadan now, including in the arctic circle. Depending on how you interpret things, you can argue to fast following Mecca time, nearest “muslim country” time, or just go for a hardcore 23 hours fasting if you’re up really north in Kiruna, Tromsø or wherever. Even 18 or 19 hours fasting in the UK must be pretty harsh, I don’t think I could cope with that.

I wasn’t responding to the ‘Ramadan in the Arctic Circle’ comment; I was responding to the ‘Ramadan in winter’ comment. What I said stands. As far as the Arctic goes, I have no idea.

bajsyckel are you having a go at a religion for not being logical?

No, just correcting a post which seems to have the wrong end of the stick.

Edit- OK, Saxon Rider, sorry for misinterpreting. As you say it shifts each year. So this year is pretty tough for muslims in the north. Conversely, I suppose you could argue that years in which ramadan falls from Nov-Jan they can get away with having a slightly early/late lunch.

Answer from one of our arctic project chaps- it’s not really covered in the book or hadith for obvious reasons, and there’s all manner of conflicting advice so he just applied logic and observes a Mecca day cycle.

I did wonder if the common sense solution would be applied by anyone, which begs the question why all of the muslim world outside of the tropics don’t do this?

Seems crazy to me. Why not do it at night? Crack half of it out during sleep. Be much easier…

I’ve gone along with the Ramadan thing a couple of times – either geography or solidarity with mates –

More seriously, that’s a very nice thing to do. You must be a good friend to have.

One thing that experience has taught me is that if you’re out in the Middle East during Ramadan, the half hour or so before sunset is *not* a nice time to go out for a drive

Seems crazy to me. Why not do it at night? Crack half of it out during sleep. Be much easier

I think that would defeat the object somewhat – the whole point is that it isn’t easy…

which begs the question why all of the muslim world outside of the tropics don’t do this?

I’d hazard a guess that it’s to do with the muslim world being pretty diverse (you might have noticed that there are just the odd schisms – one might even suggest a little tension here and there – between various leanings of Islam). Pragmatism doesn’t appear to be central to which line of thought/ practice wins out.

Coming from Muslamic world I can assure you that life carry on as normal because that is their faith. Most of the time we/I simply eat in front of them even when they are fasting because I need to eat. However, that does not mean I do not respect what they do except that I would apologise before I eat out of respect for my friends (close friends by the way).

However, having said that when I was younger that is a different story as I would dangle and to tempt my mates with food (I can assure you that we would try our best to trick them) in front of their face. Yes, like pretending to describe how the food tastes to other mates. Then we would “accidentally” ask them to try if the food is alright by tasting … Those are the scenarios amongst the boys …

For older generations we simply avoid eating in front of them out of respect, as my parents would tell us off for not respecting older generation. But my father’s mates usually don’t mind if we eat in front of them. Well, it’s a matter of testing their will power … 😆

Not all people should fast … such as kids (until 15 year old but depending), people with medical condition and very old people who needs to eat to survive. As for others they should starve … or fast.

In the UK you are just being PC and you are not even in Muslamic world … 🙄 Only in UK they make a big deal out of nothing …

p/s: Muslamic calender is I think 350 days or something like that so sometimes Ramada is in Winter …

I think that would defeat the object somewhat – the whole point is that it isn’t easy…

Ah, I forgot the smileys. Schoolboy error.

*takes a deep breath* Ummmm… *exhales* Nah.

This year it coincides with the 24 hour daylight in far northern Sweden. There has been much debate about what dawn to dusk means in this setting – use dawn and dusk times for mecca?, move further south? The advice from the devout is apparently “stick to the rules – no sunset, no food.” (I may be paraphrasing)
Amazing to think that an originally low latitude, desert superstition from the late dark ages has rules not readily applicable across a modern world…

Cf loans, status of women, genital mutilation of infants, ritual slaughter, etc