Im in a bit of a bad place at work and looking for advice… Kinda hoping that the STW collective will know what to do…

I work for a very large computer hardware supplier in technical support. I have over 5 years service. I am 2nd level support for server, storage and low end managed switch products for EMEA. I am the level 2 for about 25 front level agents. The structure should be a team of up to 20 front line agents, two level 2's and a team leader per team. Those of you in IT support will know how stressful a job like this can be – we offer everything from next day to 2 hour engineer on site support and make up about 10% to 25% of world wide server sales depending on which stats you trust…

About 10 months ago my fellow level 2 moved and I was left as the only level two for the team. At the same time my team leader moved on so I got a new team leader, my team also grew to 25. Basically everything was left to me, this has resulted in me doing 12 hour shifts, 60 hour weeks etc. I have not used any of my holidays for this year (I cannot get managment approval for any days) and generally I have been worked into the ground. On top of this one of the level 2's in a different team has a personal problem with me and has been very in my face agressive. I also foolishly reported a different manager for un-ethical conduct (messing with customer survey returns to get a better customer sat score). My company has finally hired a replacement for the level 2 that left, this is a very close friend of my new manager who has never supported servers. He finally started today so I am expected to be carrying him now.

Three / Four weeks back I went to HR to say how stressed I was (crying on a sunday night with fustration and anger and leaving work each night shaking with anger). This is after 3 maybe 4 months of telling my line manager the same thing. The HR response was "suck it up or quit".

My line manager told me on monday last week I wouldnt be getting a pay rise I was promised a year ago and that my mid year rating (previously highly valued or exceptional) would be a below expections as I have had interactions with HR. I called in sick for the rest of the week or I would have done something stupid.

I left work again today so angry I was looking for a fight on the bike.

My wife is really worried about me, I havent seen my mates at all this year and been out on the mountian bike three times, despite buying new rebas to replace my toras. I do nothing at the weekend other than sleep and I snap the face off my family.

I think I need a bit of time away from work, but cant get any holidays. A few people have suggested getting the doctor to sign me off with stress but I am worried about how this looks on my CV. Is it a really bad thing?

I have been actively looking for work but there is not much in IT in Glasgow 🙁

Anyone been in a similar position and have any advice? Please?

I have been actively looking for work but there is not much in IT in Glasgow

If it's as grim as you describe and you're receiving no support from HR it's time to look further afield than where you happen to be now.

Its no good if you arent enjoying it chum. Try to find something else and TRY to leave your frustrations behind when you walk out the door each night. I used to be the same and ended up with shingles, that gave me a shake and I learnt to just leave work and switch off.

without trying to sound too much like a c*ck……………why the **** would you put yourself through this every day at work.
you obviously hate your job, so pack it in.
getting thrown on the sick with stress is just putting it off.
call it a day and get another job.

work to live mate, not the reverse.

If you've spoken with HR about stress and brought it to their intention I'm pretty sure they are supposed to do something about it (duty of care?). Next time try to take someone you trust along as a witness.

Speak with your doc to, although how people get signed off with stress is beyond me, I have had some real trouble over the years – feeling sick, IBS, sleeping tablets etc… but never got signed off. I don't think being signed off really helps, it just prolongs it, as you have to go back sometime.

Ultimately life is far to short for this type of crap. Do something else (very easy to say, I know)

Worked in a large hospital a few years ago,the woman manager, was run ragged by higher management,eventually she had enough after getting ill, and left.

One of the mentally ill patients, said to me, dont worry another mug will be along in a few days, seen it so many times.

Few days latter,another mug manager started.

ton + 1

It ain't worth the trouble mate.

Please find a stress free job soon..

oh and if you seem to think youre so invaluable to the company, wht happens when you die, or get injured falling over your pay packet.

They just get someone else, leave before its to late, for you and your family.

JOIN A UNION! that is abuse

You and your employer are in breach of all sorts of law and regulation. Working time directive for one Check up on it – tuc site has good stuff on it.

They must find time for your holidays, you must have 11 hrs clear off between shifts, you must work less than 48 hrs a week averaged over 17 weeks. I hope you have been paid for all those hours

My advice. Join a union. Go back to HR and do not ask them – tell them you are under stress, you want your holiday entitlement, you are no longer going to work excessive hours, if they don't play ball you will be seeking constrructive dismissal claims and will be suing the arse off them

No job is worth getting ill for and yo will be far worse than you realise. It is making you seriously ill

Take the feckers for everything you can – they are so out of order its been shuffled!

Leave. I've been in exactly the same position as you and leaving was the best thing I have ever done. It's hard to see just how bad it is until you get out.

No shame in going off with stress though, plus it'll make the company do something about the lack of staff providing your skills.

You could perhaps do them for constructive dismissal – it's not reasonable to have one person doing two people's jobs. That said, I've no idea how that sort of thing affects your employment chances later on. And they must be a large company given what you've said – I imagine they'll either have a watertight policy for screwing people over, or HR are acting outside of policy and you have them over a barrel.

Personally, I'd look to leave ASAP, preferably waiting until I had found a new job before quitting. However, I'd have quit the job months ago if I were you. Not worth it. That said, the new guy might get up to speed quickly, and give you a bit of breathing space.

Thats a right old word, 'stress', I know people deal with it in different ways & we all have different levels of it but I reckon your'e suffering from 'pressure of work' rather than 'stress'. I'm no expert & can only relate to my experiences.
I used to be self employed (owned a petrol station) Just as Esso announced their price watch campaign about 13-14 years ago, my wife decided she was leaving me & our 2 lads for my mate. As business went downhill faster than Steve Peat on speed due to Esso selling petrol far cheaper than I could buy it, my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer, (thanks Esso & fags)She died a year later.
My bank (thanks Natwest) eventually foreclosed on me & I was forced to sell the business & home I had lived in for 28 years with a debt of 9K owing to a local fuel company (which took me 5 years to pay off) & i moved into a council house.
I eventually joined the prison service & have been a 'screw' for 7 years & now am the brunt of every prisoners complaint wether it be crap food, spends being wrong, DHL f**king up AGAIN, medication not arriving for whatever reason etc etc etc.
Some people (not saying it's you, & I mean it) don't know the meaning of the word. (IMO.)

This is the sort of Issue unions are good at – join one and unionise the rest of your staff as well.

HR and others should get sacked – they are breaking the law and the company could be liable for large fines. You could be in line for many thousands as a payoff.

Best result – they pay you thousands to go away and shut up so the company does not get fined tens of thousands.

I got £7000 from an employer who was no where near as liable as that.

Get real professional advice. If HR won't play ball get signed off sick tomorrow

I used to be self employed (owned a petrol station) Just as Esso an….

I'd have tooled up after all that and gone hunting.

Chapeau for not doing so.

Do a search on Google for 'depression test' – now. A few weeks off might well do you some good – perhaps with some happy pills. No shame in this – there's a lot of it about and your health and your family are worth more than anything else.

Been very close to where you are myself in the last few weeks and it ain't pretty.

Someone very close to me has also been there and any decent new employer should take stuff into consideration – and you wouldn't want to work for another bad employer would you?

You MUST get this sorted – as well as going to the doctor, get your CV onto Jobserve, Jobsite, Monster, PlanetRecruit, CWJobs, Computing Careers, Huxley, Matchtech, IT Talent Direct etc etc.

A complete breakdown won't help you, your family or your job prospects, so do it NOW, please. There IS something on the other side of the wire – believe in yourself, don't let this affect your self esteem and it WILL be fine!

Email me on vdub1992@hotmail.co.uk if you want web addresses for the above sites. Dinner calls, but I'll check my emails in a bit to see if you have emailed me.

Hope this helps.

Julian

Oh – and yo could well have a personal injury claim as well – this is not fanciful its real. Your work has made you ill and they knew about it and did nothing

Play it right you could get tens of thousands of pounds.

Its one of the most outrageous abuses of staff I have heard of. I'd love to take it on as a union rep. Such fun to have such a strong case

Document all interactions with your boss and HR write down what you can remember of previous ones and take good notes of all future ones

Do a search on Google for 'depression test' – now. A few weeks off might well do you some good – perhaps with some happy pills. No shame in this – there's a lot of it about and your health and your family are worth more than anything else.

I'm of entirely the opposite persuasion on this subject. The sad fact is that any kind of mental health issue on your record can still lead to negative consequences. Personally I'd only ever go down that route if I was properly depressed without a reason. The OP's situation is a horrible one, and there'd be something wrong with him if he weren't down in the dumps about it.

To me, giving someone in that situation anti-depressants is like giving a down jacket to a bloke stood in a meat locker, rather than just taking him out of the chiller. Remove the cause of the problem, don't just mess with the symptoms.

I can totally sympathise with you fella,I went through something similar fairly recently after a long term back injury,

I would say your health and your family are the only thing that really matters,I think its very important to talk things through, but don't dismiss,or talk yourself out of all options or opportunities.

There's no doubt your on a great salary, but quality of life is important too,(THREE times out on the bike ffs!)creating that work lifestyle balance is the key,and maybe a career/job change could be a way forward.

hth, and heres wishing you all the best. 😉

With my personal experience of this type of thing I wouldn't put any hopes on unions or big pay outs. Sorry TJ.

Very very few people actually prove this stuff and in the mean time trying to prove it can cause you even more pain / stress / grief doing even more damage.

The only person who can sort it properly is you and your family, no one else really has your best interests at heart.

DT – Its such a clear and obvious case that a settlement is very possible.

You are right that going for a payout can be stressful – thats why the best outcome usually is " here is some money and a reference to shut up and go away"

I have been there and done it. I have 7 months off work with full pay and a £7000 oayout for far less than the OP has had ( incompetent HR as well 🙂 )

dmiller – feel free to e mail me off list if you want further advice. Do not quit yet.

Play it right you could get tens of thousands of pounds

so.. moneys is the soloution? 🙄

Not being funny but it sounds like they are in a worse situation than you they have no 1 in-line who knows what there doing by the sounds of it. Your expected to show the other guy what to do right?

If it was me i would be telling them what i was doing If i was you mate i would go out with the extra money i assume you have earned from all the other time and go and book a 2 week holiday with the family.

Take a copy of the holiday dates to HR hand it to them and say ill be off those dates and walk out.

What can they do fire you? for what? there only going to leave themselves short on staff who have no clue what to do then there buckle under pressure and they will have no 1 😀

Gacvgas – no – but its better to walk away from a crap job with money that to walk away with nothing.

Mate,

I echo what ton and many others have said.

Just over a year ago I was working in a highly pressurized environment that had a high attrition rate amongst colleagues. I’d managed to survive in this particular department for six and a half years where many other capable individuals lasted half this time. In retrospect, whilst I wasn’t sneering, I was very dismissive of those that couldn’t handle it anymore through stress because they often became task avoidant and ducked jobs leaving it to the rest of a small team to sort out their cases. They were seen as a burden and imposition to us. This view was soon to change.

It wasn’t until I exhibited many of the symptoms of stress (which I had recognized in the aforementioned) that I thought ‘hold on, this is happening to me – f*ck’. I suffered from colds, tonsillitis, lethargy, I couldn’t sleep and my personality had changed. I’d become very short tempered and critical of others. It reached a point where I approached my first line manager and requested an immediate move. My ego took a knock when I went to a department with considerably less kudos than the other but it was one of the best moves I made in my career. I felt far less stress, my personal relationships improved and it enabled me to concentrate on my promotion exams that I went on to pass. I accept I was fortunate in the sense I had an understanding employer, unlike your own by the sound of it.

I know my circumstances were different to yours but you’ve come to a similar crossroad. On occasions people just reach a point in their jobs/careers where they must take stock of things and re-evaluate what’s important. Stress can be massively deleterious to mind and body and casts many into an early grave each year one way or another. Divorces and alcoholism are synonymous with my line of work.

My advice to you would be to get out or at least start paving the way for another job change. I appreciate that when you have responsibilities and bills to pay that might be a tough pill to swallow and easier said than done but in my experience stress doesn’t just go away and you either have the personality to leave these feelings at work or you don’t. Personally I wasn’t able to and consequently it impacted on my private life resulting in nights where I would only sleep three to four hours and much of this was fractured.

One day you wake up and know, intrinsically know that this can’t go on anymore. Only you will be aware if you’ve reached that point.

I’d banish all thoughts of litigation with work if you have any. You will embroil yourself in further negativity. Move on.

All the best.

TJ urges litigation shock! horror! 😉

If you litigate you will be like kryptonite to future employers. You have to remember that the situation you are in is equally of your doing, you have not nipped it in the bud, you have let it get too far, you have let them walk over you, only you can fix it.

I am not saying it is not stressful, I am sure it is, but you have to take a stand. Fire some **** into them! What's the worst that can happen?

Repeat after me, 'Your job is not your life.'

That sounds bad mate, unsustainable. You must be on serious money to put up with that? Your post makes it sound like you're under siege – you need to take back control, obviously more easily said than done (although I'd start by telling the guy getting in your face to f_ck off and make me a cup of tea).

On the one hand it sounds like you're doing an important job for the organization, but given that your line is reneging on an agreed pay rise, plus HR basically laughing at you, makes it difficult to know how much weight you can throw around.

You could try going down the union route – trying to get some traction there in a completely non-unionised workplace strikes me as a tall order. Management / HR are clearly supremely untroubled by union action given your description, but it could be worth a shot.

Finally, no IT jobs in Glasgow? Come on with that man, there has to be alternatives. Are your skills that specialised?

This may be useful:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_money/employment/faq_index_employment/faq_employment_under_stress_at_work.htm

HTH

Good luck!

I left a job in January due to stress, they moved me to a different unit but i wasn't happy working for the company after my previous experience had tainted my view of the managment and there desicions. Working for that company and not 'nipping it in the bud' as Torminalis says, nearly destroyed my relationship with my partner. It was an extremley hard desicion and one that will stay with my for the rest of my life as the best thing to do at the time. I told myself everyday i was riding into work that i just need to man the **** up and get on with things, this only prolonged the inavitable. although i'm not still fully back on my feet, i'm so much happier not working 70+ hours a week and i've recently got back into all the things i loved before i had the job. It does all feel like a waste of time but ultimatly the experience has made me stronger and more wise to situations like this. Especially repressing my own feelings because of being scared of the concenquenses.

I hope you can make a decision sooner rather than later. There will be light at the end of the tunnel but your the only one with a torch.

Wow – good advice from all! Thankyou!

I cant move as my wife is a teacher and has got a full time job, not easy to come by in teaching and all her family are near by etc. I dont think I would want to move anyway as we help care for her grandad and I would really miss him if we moved.

I dont really know why I havent already quit, it feels like giving in or something. I see what you mean about being sick just putting it off, I hadnt thought of it that way.

My company doesnt really worry to much about employment law. They just fight it out in employment courts if they need too. They have a lot of lawyers. To give you an idea of thier business practices they were just fined $100million for fraudulent accounting practices. Doing things right is not thier strong point.I think my doc would sign me off, hes a bit of a soft touch and has offered it before but I was worried about it affecting my CV.

For what its worth my current wage is 20k. The wage rise I have been promised but will no longer get is to a scale that runs from from 25k to 28k (good jump). The same job in the same company on the Irish site is about £36k if you convert it from Euro to Pounds. Clearly I am cheap…

I'm certain that no-one would join a union so I would be the only person. I dont think that would be worth it? No-one else would join as those that stick thier heads up get managed out. The person with the problem with me and a different team leader have an HR approved plan to manage one of thier agents out – they have reduced him to tears in the office with thier dealings with him. They openly discuss how long to they can make him do it again. The reason for this? Hes nearly 50 and has more life experience than computer experience and they dont like supporting him. Hes good at his job as well and the customers love him as hes clearly a very nice guy. HR are aware of this and going with it as he has been given a low rating twice so is fair game.

Julian – thanks for the list mate – I am on most of these already but have missed a few – google is getting me in the right direction for the rest.

Im not sure on getting more money out of them by sueing them. Its not really my style and to be honest the size of the company they will either win or drag it out so long it wont matter any more.

I dont have any weight to throw about really – if I get to stroppy they will just fire me, they need to make customer satisfaction scores, however these are generally made by fiddling the stats. If you say your angry on the phone your contact details will be changed so you dont get a survey. Simples. Only happy people get surveyed, even then we struggle to hit 90% CSAT…

esselgruntfuttock – **** hell mate! That adds a bit of perspective to this. Hope things are good for you now and getting better!

I hope you can make a decision sooner rather than later. There will be light at the end of the tunnel but your the only one with a torch.

Thats pretty much what my wife says…

I think if I quit now all I will be able to get is a job in Asda / Tesco / etc. Does that look better on a CV? I have always liked the idea of being a sparky or a nurse (although a few mates that are nurses have said run away, but some people on here have in the past talked happily about it!), I suppose this could be a great time to retrain…

The company value you so much that they won't give you a pay rise, therefore why should they expect you to work 60 hour weeks? As a simple suggestion try leaving earlier than you have been doing. The work will still be there in the following morning, but you will have had more time off.

In your terms and conditions they must have told you your working hours. If they did not then at the very worst the number of hours you can work per week is 48 hours (you are NOT allowed to opt of this part of the Working Time Directive). Keep an accurate record and after that many hours go home. If you are critical to their business what can they do, if you are not critical then why are you working so many hours.

Finally regarding holidays they must give you so many days per year – I think it is 20 plus public holidays (but it might be 20 including public holidays). In any case tell the company when you are planning to take leave, give reasonable notice at least one week in advance for every day you want to take off and take the leave. It will brings things to a head and they may threaten you. If so get it in writing and go and consult your local CAB.

I have been there – at one time I thought that ending it all would make it easier. Fortunately I took a long holiday and realised that it is just a job. Without your health (and that includes the mental side) you won't be able to do your job – or most importantly enjoy your friends and family

Good luck with whatever you decide. But please change something

Pretty easy to work out who you work for then!

Good luck with it all and I hope you get it sorted.

Julian

Just so you know mate, i am starting a 4 month course on the 30th of August to completly retrain in a different field. Something i've never done before but always had a thing for. Now it's going to be my life and i've never been happier than when i think about that. Just wanted to let you know that re-training is very daunting but knowing i'll be happy afterwards is priceless. My other half did pretty much the same thing (after leaving her job due to sexual harassment) and is now training to be a teacher. (sometimes i wonder weather my life should be a soap opera!!!!)

PS.

I think it is 20 plus public holidays (but it might be 20 including public holidays)

It's 20 days plus public holidays.

All the best!

i would rather stack shelves at a supermarket, than take shit at work.
i have only ever taken a job that
a. i can cycle too and from
b. that have sociable hours

not saying anyone is wrong for wanting to earn big money, but when the result is a world of crap, then it is time to step back and rethink what is really important in your life.
money? health?

you would be suprised at how little you can survive on………… 8)

No jobs worth your health or stress on your family.

For what its worth my current wage is 20k.

You're doing 60 hr weeks for 20k?

Walk away chap, you're being ridden

Speaking from experience,

Much easier to find work when you already have some. Start looking but don't have a hissy fit and storm out.

/2p

Jeezo – the more you tell me the worse it gets. Someone needs to make a stand and you guys really need to join a union. This is what unions are for. The other guy you mention is being bullied and quite possibly its criminal behaviour

It is totally up to you about making a stand yourself but given what you tell me I would. partly cos the chances of a decent payout are high and partly cos they need to be dealt with. Its not hundreds that we are talking about here ( but take good independent advice)

You realise some of what they are doing is possibly criminal?

If your employer had broken your leg due to having no guards on the machines and they had been told about the missing guards which they need to legally have would you go after them? So whats the difference when they have broken your brain?

Your work should not make you ill is the bottom line.

Obviously you don't have to comment but from what you've said I'd guess you're with HP. HP pay a lot of attention to ethics and compliance issues, and that includes the way they treat staff. Your "local" management sound like they're living in the past. You weren't EDS before the takeover were you?

Anyway, if you don't get the response you need from your direct manager or HR send an email to the highest person in the UK organisation. Just cut and paste your first post into the email.

You do realise you are barely above minimum wage? You'd be better off getting a job in Tesco and another in a pub to get your 60 hours in stress free. Teej is right – take them for all you can and get out. They are seriously in breach on so many counts it's taking the piss.