I loved it – that Tom Kitchin guy was probably one of the finest managers I have ever seen. Not just cooking talent that’s got him so far.

Amazed at Claire’s ability to avoid crying like all the blokes seem to do!

I thought he was a bit of a knob, but then working in a kitchen is probably quite different to what most of us do.

I’ve worked in a kitchen (cooking) before and it is pretty tough. MUCH lower level stuff than they were doing of course – reasonable level pub food. Bloody hot too which doesn’t help.

I thought Tom Kichen was a complete ar$e. Brilliant demonstration of how not to get the best out of people by bullying and intimidating them.

Agree that Claire is a star though.

Eh? He told both how well they’d done, told that bloke he was crying through “passion” (i.e. didn’t take the pi55) and generally praised them a lot.

I thought he was great.

The bloke wasn’t crying through passion though was he. He was crying because his chance at demonstrating his abilities had been ruined by a pre-madonna constantly threatening him (if you overcook any scallops you pay for them) and belittling him (who told you to walk around holding scallops etc).

The fact that Kichen had to go and placate the poor chap is hardly an excuse for allowing things to get to that state.

He’s running a business though – I’d expect the same of anyone representing ours (which isn’t cooking!). TBH the guy was a bit of a space cadet to start off with.

Running a business is no excuse. The way to make your business succeed is not to turn your staff into snivelling wrecks. The chef at the dining room didn’t feel it necessary to scream at the guy who couldn’t draw 3 lines on a plate.

So Lactic, why is he running a successful business and why has he been named Scottish chef of the year and been awarded two (I think) Michelin Stars?

He was far more level headed that Gordon Ramsay and probably had to play up for the camera a bit anyway.

His food looked nicer than the Dining Room’s fare too IMO. I’d rather eat at the Kitchin but then I’m a sucker for Edinburgh.

Maybe he’d be more successful if he was a better manager, maybe he’s not like that all the time but was just playing the macho chef stereotype for the TV cameras, maybe success has gone to his head? Who knows.

The Kichen is 1 star I think.

More successful? He’s not doing too badly!

Interesting that our opinions differ so much!

That Claire bird reminds me of Mad Mary off Coronation Street.

As for that dining room place – I bet the chef who runs that place posts on here from time to time.

That young girl did really well I thought considering all her dishes were fish up to this point.

If you want to be a cook, you’ve often got to deal with head chefs screaming at you. That is just the environment of a professional kitchen. If everything is working fine, best mates. If it ain’t, the shit hits the fan.

I’m not saying its right, thats just the way it is. Its not personal. At least stuff dosn’t get thrown around (at least on camera).

TBF I had an inkling that frenchy cockney boy would crack on that kind of service, so the asparagus dish was just the right dish to put him on.

So the finalists are –

Mad Mary

John “I’m always late”

and “Baking Soda, that’s Coke I’m Sniffing”

My money’s on the late chap, his food must be good if he keeps getting through with his timings.

How the hell can a chef even be considered macho? All they do is cook FFS. That’s womans work. 😛

my other half has spent her whole adult life working in and around fine-dining kitchens and insists that most places she has worked contain head chefs with very bad attitudes due to the high pressure and high temperature of the professional kitchen..

we watch masterchef and she is often surprised by how unrealistically easy going the executive chefs are..

I used to work weekends in a kitchen as veg prep and pot scrubber. We had a Scots ex-Army chef who would often drink a bottle of whisky the night before and could get a bit shouty when things were not running with military precision. He once chased me round the kitchen with a saucepan becuase I’d left some eyes on some potatos. He couldn’t half cook mind, and we loved working for him.

I still have my money on Mad Mary*.
*Said with love and admiration.

I thought Tom Kitchen came over as an utter arse. That is certainly not good management to bully hector and belittle people.

Tell that to multimillionaire chef Gordon Ramsay. And Rick Stein.

Both extremely successful, both very hard on their staff, both have some of the finest up and coming chefs falling over themselves to work for them.

Or are you just disagreeing with me because it’s the “in” thing to do on STW?

No _ I am, disagreeing because I understand management. Do I look like the sort of guy who follows the popular line?The guys you mention may be good cooks and perhaps like sports people you need an overdose of Ego to succeed in these feilds.

It does not alter than fact that what we saw kitchen do was very poor management – bullying, hectoring and belittling.

YOu do not need to be a good manager to do what these guys do – you need to be a good cook. Its not the same thing.

YOu do not need to be a good manager to do what these guys do – you need to be a good cook. Its not the same thing.

Okay then, these guys are good BUSINESS people which IMO requires good management. If they were simply good cooks, they wouldn’t get far – they wouldn’t see opportunities, they wouldn’t work their way up the culinary ladder.

If Gordom Ramsay and Rick Stein, owners of sizeable empires are “just good cooks” then my name is Gertrude.

It’s seeing the big picture – turning talent into money. Sometimes that means (hideous cliche coming up) breaking a few eggs to make an omelette.

I saw neither bullying nor “hectoring” (is that actually a real word?), I saw a successful chef instructing two people on how to cook a top end dish. I then saw some rather strong but fair words when it started to go wrong. I then saw some great words of encouragement at the end.

If that defies some BS management manual, I don’t care – it works. I’ve worked with (not FOR) plenty of “managers” trained to the hilt that don’t know their ar5e from their elbow. They’ve just ticked some boxes and crawled up the ladder through almost zero self initiative and original thought. They mostly drives Audis too… 😉 😆

How many safety critical, high-pressure jobs allow shouting and hectoring (yes, it is a real word) in the workplace? None that I can think of.

The old fashioned hierarchical style was dropped by the aviation industry decades ago and is finally being dropped by the medical profession. NASA didn’t get Apollo 13 down by shouting at each other. Numerous critical incident investigations have shown that domineering leadership styles cost lives, staff don’t perform and are too scared to speak up to prevent accidents.

Chefs get away with it because nothing serious is at steak (er- stake)

Being succesful does not legitimise being a bully or treating people like poo however, i.e. ‘He’s successful, therefore everything he does must be great.’.

I would respect Ramsay a lot more if he wasn’t so aggressive and sweary. If anyone swore *at* me under anything less than exceptional circumstances in a job I would certainly take strong issue with it.

It’s like anything really, you can have all the money or success in the world but it doesn’t mean you have to be a nice person, and it doesn’t mean you’ve got class.

Ramsey isn’t a great businessman. His ’empire’ would have gone into administration last year if he didn’t pump £5m of his own money in to save it. Also, most of his business success is attributed to his father-in-law, Chris Hutcheson, who stepped down as CEO of Ramsey Holdings earlier this month.

Most chefs have strong businessmen behind them to run the commercial side of their restaurant(s).

The kitchen is a tough environment and sometimes you need to be strict with trainee chefs, but there’s a difference between getting the best out of them with tough love and just being a c*ck. Kithcin got that balance wrong, in my opinion, but I also got the impression that he was acting up for the cameras.

Okay then, let’s point out all the mild mannered, terribly timid super successful chefs of this fine country then.

The ones that say “don’t worry, just burn that scallop that cost me a fiver, here’s another one” or whisper “hey, time is getting a wee bit tight, any chance of upping the pace a tad old chap.”

Successful management requires being firm but fair – this is what I say from Tom KitchIn (and I seem to be the only one that can spell his name correctly too) 😉 That may not be littered with enough “management speak” and waffle as some of the endless books and courses on it though.

Kithcin got that balance wrong, in my opinion, but I also got the impression that he was acting up for the cameras.

+1

I think Ramsay does too to be honest.

Okay then, let’s point out all the mild mannered, terribly timid super successful chefs of this fine country then.

Well, neither of the other two head chefs who were on this week were quite as big A-holes for a start. Plus, don’t infer that because I thought Kitchin was a knob that I automatically think all chefs have to be the polar opposite. Thats quite a cheap debating trick…!

Plus, don’t infer that because I thought Kitchin was a knob that I automatically think all chefs have to be the polar opposite.

Please point out where this was inferred…

Okay then, let’s point out all the mild mannered, terribly timid super successful chefs of this fine country then.

Hectoring is a real word.

Good management under pressure requires firm speaking and clear guidance – but there ius a huge difference between that and what we saw.

Its clear you have never sucessfully managed staff nor worked under real pressure if you thank that is good management

I think i’ll bow out now… been fun debating.

What’s that Michel Roux Jr like in the kitchen then? Comes across as pretty polite to me.

Wasn’t there something about Korean airliners crashing because their pilots were too polite to question the authority of the control towers. Seems that a shouty boss might lead to the same kind of issues.

Oh TJ TJ, you couldn’t help but resort to insults and “bigging yourself up” could you?

I won’t even respond directly to your tragic little attempt at patronisation (full of spelling errors of course) but needless to say, you speak volumes to me as someone who has been taught a lot of management spiel, has been to a few management courses but still doesn’t “get” how business actually works. A medium sized cog in a big wheel I assume? Ask the boss what he thinks. He’ll give you a much more informed answer.

I can already spell out your reply almost to the letter. It will be accompanied by much arm flailing, a spray of flabbergasted spittle and some self righteous guffawing.

You are laughable. Really. I have run a multimillion pound organisation with a couple of hundred staff answerable to the board and I don’t speak in management bollox. I have also worked under real pressure.

You on the other hand equate bullying with being a good manager. Note how no one else on the thread agrees with you.

“Ramsey isn’t a great businessman. His ’empire’ would have gone into administration last year if he didn’t pump £5m of his own money in to save it”.

I wonder where he came up with £5 million of his own money?

I doubt you mean guffawing as well – thats a hearty laugh which I have done at you.

You are laughable. Really. I have run a multimillion pound organisation with a couple of hundred staff answerable to the board and I don’t speak in management bollox.

So you RAN the organisation but were ANSWERABLE to the board? You didn’t run it then did you? The board did. In fact I’d be surprised, in fact flabbergasted if you have actually run a company before at all.

If you thought that was bullying then you need to MTFU. And if you think you’ve somehow “won” because others agree with you and not me, you need to get some eyesight fitted.

Sorry but I feel the need to paste this gem once again:

I have run a multimillion pound organisation with a couple of hundred staff answerable to the board and I don’t speak in management bollox.
😆 😆

Oh and you’d better remove that tag:

guffaw [g??f??]
n
a crude and boisterous laugh
vb
to laugh crudely and boisterously or express (something) in this way
😆

I’d better remove that tag – why – you going to bully me?

Do you understand how things work? You are always answerable to teh board unless you are on the board.

A spot of advice – when in a hole stop digging