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@danroan - Anyone who cares about cycling really needs to look at @BBCSport online from midnight tonight.
Embargo?
CIRC report released Monday.
this?
[url= http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/home/article/27420?#iU7c81QjW5f48u26.97 ]http://www.teamsky.com/teamsky/home/article/27420?#iU7c81QjW5f48u26.97[/url]
[url= http://www.cyclisme-dopage.com/actualite/2015-03-08-cyclisme-dopage.htm ]That'll be this then?[/url]
What a mess the sport is
Estimates of 20 - 90 % of the peleton still cheating
Who paid the 3m for the report to be done ?? I love cycling and even love road races, but the rules need to be harsher .Lifetime ban from all sports when caught cheating and legal action from sponsors and teams to recover monies lost ? If you lost everything would you be tempted to cheat ?
I'm intrigued by this statement:
"With doping done now on a more conservative basis, other forms of cheating are on the rise, [b]particularly related to bikes and equipment[/b]"
Hmmm
but the rules need to be harsher .Lifetime ban from all sports when caught
IMHO it needs to go the other way, people need an out - whistleblowers etc. give people a chance to admit and move on. Tell their stories, say how they beat the system confess in a one off season.
If it were a case of finding the bad one in the bunch harsh penalties might work, when you struggle to find the good ones something else might be needed.
ben98 - MemberI'm intrigued by this statement:
"With doping done now on a more conservative basis, other forms of cheating are on the rise, particularly related to bikes and equipment"
Hmmm
650b, obviously... 😆
On the equipment thing I remember a few tours ago there was a lot of interest in a top rider who swapped his bike at the top of the last summit on a lone breakaway, the suggestion was he was racing on an underweight bike that was then swapped to the team car and fixed (swapped obviously due to some issue)
other sports are as bad (compare top 10 fastest 100m men with last 10 TdeF winners) but are less active at admitting it or dealing with it (they have more money to lose), and Seb Coe seems to be in full Pat McQuaid denial-mode in his running for IAAF presidency.
One "respected cycling professional" believes that 90% of the peloton is still doping
will trawl for the name but a recently-retired European ex-doper made this statement. Just as his autobiography was coming out.
On the equipment thing I remember a few tours ago there was a lot of interest in a top rider who swapped his bike at the top of the last summit on a lone breakaway, the suggestion was he was racing on an underweight bike that was then swapped to the team car and fixed (swapped obviously due to some issue)
This is a common place thing; look how many use two bikes in longer technical time trials. Openly done on the grand tours.
Using 2 bikes isn't outside the rules if both bikes are legal. They are doing it openly because they can. This one the officials made sure they kept an eye on the bikes and had it off the team car for inspection at the end of the stage. Considering most of the bikes come under weight and then have weight added (someone had some custom lead weights that slotted into the BB spindle to make the exact minimum weight) it wouldn't be that hard to send an un ballasted bike out.
But I guess all of this stuff is probably in the report.
Considering what is in the report, and what is already known, (not that different), focusing on the bikes is rather like arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
It's interesting they don't describe the problem as being mainly in 'Road Cycling' although obviously the description in the articles is focusing on road racing, as opposed to Indoor Track or MTB.
I wonder how prevalent drug abuse is in the Mountain Bike Racing world? ....I can imagine the same temptations must be there for top XC riders etc
David Millar opinion.
If nothing else, at least this should put paid to the "Why only focus on Lance?" trope...
I can't quite see what the next steps from this are though sadly.
Direct link to the PDF here btw:
Estimates of 20 - 90 % of the peleton still cheating
This wide variation in perceived figures stood out to me too. Perhaps the views were founded within the teams of those two individuals in which case one is running a full blown doping operation.
On the other hand, if it was more of a broad brush thing that most riders do something from time to time whether it be a TUE or occasional use of high strength pain killers then that might make sense.
Sadly, I still think the report doesn't go far enough.
Considering most of the bikes come under weight and then have weight added (someone had some custom lead weights that slotted into the BB spindle to make the exact minimum weight) it wouldn't be that hard to send an un ballasted bike out.
Not any more - weight has to be structural. But your point still stands - could easily swap to an underweight bike.
I was struck by this quote from the BBC coverage
Unforgivably, there was more emphasis placed on managing the image of cycling rather than ridding the sport of problems.
Is that unforgivable? As far as I can tell that's exactly what the governing bodies of every other sport do. It's their job after all; to protect the image of the sport. To keep the money flowing. Cycling has decided (possibly because it had no choice) to tackle the doping issue head on and in public. But I'm not at all sure that it will do anything other than damage the credibility of the sport. Good luck to them though.
Having read the BBC article, I found it very strange to mention up to 90% still dope almost as a passing comment.
Surely resources would have been better spent looking at the present, and cleaning up the sport going forward instead of more time interviewing those already banned from the sport?
it was 20-90% doping, the report was to find out what was and had been going on. The next part is fixing it.
The "90% still dope" was a comment from one person, not a proven number.
I've read Di Luca was the source (from cycling person on Twitter - Felix Lowe maybe?), and he's hardly the most trustworthy of characters.
Some take aways from the report.
You're only a doper if you get caught is the standard mantra
Micro dosing EPO means you won't glow in the morning, (therefore how stupid are the people who get caught?)
TUE's are abused, even in the women's peloton
Significant and quick weight loss is an issue and most likely as a result of doping
If people think this is solely related to cycling then they're delusional.
At least it gets the sport some coverage in the mainstream BBC sports news, Cav and Stannard didn't get a mention last Monday
At least it gets the sport some coverage in the mainstream BBC sports news, Cav and Stannard didn't get a mention last Monday
Yes.. according to the BBC its a Damning report which shames cycling.
Forgets to mention widespread doping in all professional sports
Forgets to mention widespread doping in all professional sports
Cycling have at least tried to get their house in order by commissioning the report. That's why it's news, when reporting on ISIS we don't expect a bit on how bad Hitler was and whats going on in N Korea.
It was well known to UCI that use of performance enhancing drugs was pervasive in the sport. The direction of UCI’s anti-doping policy was determined by UCI management until the late 2000s when greater operational control was given to the CADF. It was only then that UCI started to move away from a policy of containment and protecting the sport to seek instead to tackle the problem. It is fair to note that UCI took more steps as part of its anti-doping policy than many other international federations. However, whilst there is a debate as to whether it should receive much credit for this given the scale of the doping problem, the more significant point is that despite adopting new tests, many of the other steps it took prior to 2006/2008 served to undermine anti-doping efforts. In addition, the governance failures and specific actions of UCI’s presidents/management seriously undermined UCI’s credibility.
not a surprise is it, after watching last years tour de fiasco.
I imagine that 20%-90% variation could even be down to what people even classify as doping.
With such (apparent) prevalent use of off the shelf items that are not tested for and use of doctors letters allowing certain things "within" the rules, one person may call that doping, and another within the rules.
I was rather surprised to find how many pro peloton riders are apparently asthmatic.
Dan Roans comment hidden in the middle of the BBC page is crucial. The report shows cyclings condition is critical but unlike other sports, at least the UCI knows it is ill.
Guardian also reporting about the level of doping in amateur cycling where there are no drug testing programmes.
Anyway an important step from the UCI, formally acknowledging the size of the problem.
I was rather surprised to find how many pro peloton riders are apparently asthmatic.
This was something that amazed me when I read something recently about how a large percentage of pro's have exemptions in place to allow them to use Ventolin inhalers. It doesn't really do much to enhance any 'clean' image that cycling is trying to portray.
I've read Di Luca was the source (from cycling person on Twitter - Felix Lowe maybe?), and he's hardly the most trustworthy of characters.
Branding convicted dopers testimony as untrustworthy is partly how the sport has kept a lid on things for decades. If one lesson was learnt from the whole Armstrong and Landis thing it's that those sources are possibly the most important as they really know what's going on.
Not sure what to make of Millars commentary, must read the report.
Not sure what to make of Millars commentary, must read the report.
I was somewhat disappointed with it/him, and I'm leaning more to the fanboy side of the fence when it comes to Millar.
.. according to the report.Doping in amateur cycling is endemic
When there's big bucks involved we'd expect dopers. But at amateur level? Is that to get into the pro ranks in the first place, make the most of a lack of tests and get spotted?
Farkin doperz!! I knew that's why I keep getting my arse handed to me despite all my KOMZ! Anyone know where I can get some EPO?
Good summary as usual over at [url= http://inrng.com/2015/03/the-circ-report/ ]inrng[/url].
Doping in amateur cycling is endemic
.. according to the report.
Doesn't surprise me. Amateurs train in some cases just as hard as the pro's, and results are just as important. If someone offered me a pill that gave me 10% more watts and helped me lose a few kg I'd likely say no... but it would certainly make me stop and think.
Branding convicted dopers testimony as untrustworthy.....Not sure what to make of Millars commentary,
Even you are questioning them and we all do it because we know they were liars and cheats. We all now struggle to work out if they still are.
If someone offered me a pill that gave me 10% more watts and helped me lose a few kg
But if that pills not on the WADA banned list, (as its still in clinical trials), then its not doping, its the ultimate application of marginal gains.
No worse than than someone drinking beetroot juice...... Both are reported to give you a competitive advantage.
I do wonder what they mean by amateur, are we talking E/1/2 crits on a Thursday night, or the Nat Champs or what.
Even you are questioning them and we all do it because we know they were liars and cheats. We all now struggle to work out if they still are.
All I'm saying is that I'm unsure what to make of it as it seems at odds with the report (which I've yet to read.) Nothing to do with his ex-doper status.
njee20 - Member
I do wonder what they mean by amateur, are we talking E/1/2 crits on a Thursday night, or the Nat Champs or what.
I'd not be surprised if it was all levels, even down to 3/4.
And I guess it depends what we're talking about. I can't imagine many MAMILs are forking out thousands for EPO to help them get their gold time, but perhaps I'm naive...