Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Property Covenants
  • Ewan
    Free Member

    What’s the deal with property covenants? Can they be completely arbitrary? For example if I had a 20 acres to sell, could I put a covenant on the land to stop anyone called Michael parking a purple car on the land?

    How long do they last for? Who enforces them – if there was a covenant on the land from 20 years ago and the lands been sold 3 times since can you do what you want?

    Sorry for the random question – I saw some land for sale (idly dreaming as you do!) that said any buyer couldn’t interrupt the quiet enjoyment of the sellers house, which seemed pretty arbitrary and vague to me!

    Stoner
    Free Member

    covenants can be arbitrary and eternal.

    The beneficiary may not know that they are the beneficiary. Restrictive covenants run with land and will be on the charges register, they are not personal.

    and all covenants may not be in the register.

    as for your particular covenant, its not that arbitrary and “quiet enjoyment” is not, legally, vague either.

    Either way, you’d have to be acting like an arse to breach it.

    Ewan
    Free Member

    Interesting… So if they’re eternal, does that various bits of land are destined to have strange restrictions for ever more? Is there anyway to have one anulled?

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    loddrik
    Free Member

    Covenants make sod all difference to planning regulations and are an entirely civil matter. Though the people who are using the covenant as a restriction will try and have you believe otherwise.

    Ewan – Remember that thuggish lottery winner from Essex a couple of years ago? The guy who bought a large plot and started racing bangers and quad bikes with his mates, much to the displeasure of his neighbours? Thats a good example of somebody disrupting their neighbours quiet enjoyment of their property…

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    So, are they enforceable? And who by? I’m not meant to keep chickens, pigs, goats or sheep, but I’ve had four chooks for a couple of years now…

    Ewan
    Free Member

    Ewan – Remember that thuggish lottery winner from Essex a couple of years ago? The guy who bought a large plot and started racing bangers and quad bikes with his mates, much to the displeasure of his neighbours? Thats a good example of somebody disrupting their neighbours quiet enjoyment of their property…

    Indeed – just wondering how they’re meant to be enforced and by whom, esp if they’re eternal.

    Stoner
    Free Member

    they are enforced by the beneficiary property owner (the right of a restrictive covenant goes with the other land parcel).

    They are enforced through the civil courts for remedy by reinstatement or damages.

    If this is getting tough to understand, do some research or pay someone to help you.

    DT78
    Free Member

    I’m not allowed to make bricks, brew strong liquor or have a fairground on my land. Was gutted when I found out, my business plans shattered….

    Ewan
    Free Member

    If this is getting tough to understand, do some research or pay someone to help you.

    Eh? Just asking an idle question as a result of playing with the right move app on my phone… whats with the grumpyness?

    racefaceec90
    Full Member

    am embarrassed to admit that when i read covenant i was thinking these 😳 [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BBhWf8Wkeo[/video]

    konabunny
    Free Member

    Thats a good example of somebody disrupting their neighbours quiet enjoyment of their property…

    …although they wouldn’t necessarily need a covenant to stop that – a private nuisance suit could probably get to the same place, and that’s an action in tort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuisance

    uwe-r
    Free Member

    The beneficiary of the covenant is whoever granted the initial title/lease or there successors. This is usually lost in the wash as the original land owner would probably have written off any interest in the land and so the fact the benefit exists gets lost through the ages, unless you pay a ground rent which is a whole other story.

    99% of restrictive covenants are effectively redundant as you will not be able to trace the original beneficiary and if you know who it is they will not be looking to enforce it as they are probably long gone (as in the descendants will be living in Monaco on a yacht) and will have no interest.

    They are used by modern developers to maintain a degree of control over land they sell but they can have a massive impact on land value and so are not common.

    crmcc
    Free Member

    Hi everybody, I have been checking the forum for a while now, & as there always seems to be something relevant to me I thought I would take the plunge and join.

    We have a restrictive covenant that stops us building within 9ft of our boundary with the house next to ours. The property was lease hold, & after talking to several solicitors, some advised us to buy the free hold, saying that it would nullify the covenant as we would be the beneficiary, and others said that the covenant would still stand, we have now purchased the free hold. We would like to build a garage onto the side of the property as the old garage is separate from the house, made frome concrete panels with corrugated concrete fibre roof. This isn’t very secure and I have had a motorcycle taken on one ocassion and my mountainbike on another occassion. We had planning permission approved in the past but the owner of the property next to us sent a solicitors letter threatening legal action if we were to proceed with the addittion citing the 9ft exclusion as the grounds. I will just mention we spoke to the owner before we applied for planning, and before we had drawings done to see if he had any objections. He was shown a rough sketch of our intensions and I got a tape measure out to show him the extent of our plans. He said that we should go ahead and get the drawings , and apply for permission as he had no objections. The people at the planning dept. told us that he was there almost everyday, or on the phone doing everything he could to stop permission being approved. When this failed he resorted to the solicitors letter. Also the reason our current garage is not secure is because our land is lower than his so it is easy to get onto the garage roof from his garden. He has also left his property vacant for the 12 years that we have been here and both thefts used his garden to access ours and as thier route of escape. Now that we have bought the free hold we want to proceed with the garage (planning permission no longer needed due to a change in planning laws) but we need to know that we are legally ok to continue as the neighbour will still try to prevent us. Can anyone point us to a solicitor that can give us a definitive answer as to how to proceed? We are in the Bolton area. Sorry if I am hijacking the thread (what is the protocol? Should I start another thread even though this one is relevant?)
    Stoner – you have said to “do some research, or pay someone”, can you point me in the right direction as it is getting expensive to just keep trying different solicitors and still not knowing where we stand.

    totalshell
    Full Member

    ok solicitors offer advice not the answer you can pay a guy he offers advice you follow advice his advice was wrong tough..
    the covenant only is applicable to the benificiary. i m not an expert or know the full details but as the covenant benifits the nieghbour (you cant build within 9ft ofhis property) then you may be stuck with it. on the other hand call his bluff tell him to send you his solicitors letter and see what he does.
    if on the other hand his boundary is insecure you can have him forced to make it effective.

    Woody
    Free Member

    He has also left his property vacant for the 12 years that we have been here

    Surprises me he is bothered. Has he given a reason for the objection, other than the covenant?

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    If this is getting tough to understand, do some research or pay someone to help you.

    Funny, I thought that this was kind of the point of a discussion forum. If you’ve nothing nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Miserable sod.

    crmcc
    Free Member

    Surprises me he is bothered. Has he given a reason for the objection, other than the covenant?

    He says we will spoil the look of our road even though we designed it to match the house using the same tiles, bricks etc… And other houses on the road have had flat roof 2 storey extensions that definatly do not match the existing building.

    konabunny
    Free Member

    Sorry if I am hijacking the thread (what is the protocol? Should I start another thread even though this one is relevant?)

    No need to be sorry. This is more or less the same topic and it makes more sense to have it here than start a whole new thread.

    uwe-r
    Free Member

    Crmcc, just seen your post.

    There are three issues here:

    Your neighbour has written a letter re the covenant. I would think it highly unlikely that he is the beneficiary of the covenant and (if so) he can’t do anything to enforce it. I would read the wording of the letter carefully, does it state anywhere that he is the beneficiary, he is more likely just trying it on and he will own his house on the same basis as you, as will others on the road who have built extensions.

    You own the freehold, does the covenant in the leasehold link in with the same in the freehold deed, if not you are probably in the clear to build the garage. Solicitors might be nervous about committing to this advice as there may be other documents that contain covenants that you do not hold copies of and it is difficult to prove these issues outright.

    The issue will no doubt raise its head when you sell the house however there is a type of insurance available to cover breaches of covenant, you could ask a solicitor if this would help your situation. On selling the house this would probably be accepted as covering the risk and whilst the cost might be used in negotiation the sale should go through.

    Lots of guessing there but I think you would be ok. You need a solicitor, think of them like doctors, they provide advice but its not always right more an educated guess based on lots of experience.

    portlyone
    Full Member

    I think they help with the burden of truth. On their own they may be weak but with other Acts, case law etc they can add to a good argument.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)

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