[Closed] Proper Touring Bikes, anyone know much about them?

Years ago toured on Claud Butler Majestic,thought it was great then .

But now would be tempted by good hybrid,discs would offer better braking with load on,you have narrow wheels n decent rubber.

Worth a look.

Iv'e got a Hewitt cheviot se tourer with canti brakes. They cope when fully loaded with 4 panniers and camping kit but discs would be a lot better.

Disc brakes are worth it IMO, as are sti for drops (I wouldn't fancy flat bars), but otherwise the oldies are actually pretty good - stouter tubing on newer bikes might make them stiffer for 4 pannier riding.

2nd sti and discs if had the choice. Also STIs with bar routed gear cables rather than older shimano externally routed as its a faff with a bar bag if you choose to get one (they are quite useful). As Al said above re stiffness - can be an issue esp. If you are a bigger unit. A fine line between a stiff harsh ride for hours and hours in the saddle and a flexy thing that feels horrible on the rare occasions you get out of the saddle fully loaded.

Mines got campag veloce 9 speed shifters connected up to xt drive train.

I went for discs and barend shifters connected to a mtb drivetrain on my Genesis Tour de Fer. Haven't toured on it yet but did a 180km ride a couple of Sundays ago and it was lovely to ride. Not sure I'd want cantis on a touring bike, mainly because I've used discs for so many years and they're so much better.

are the old ones just heavy

I think all touring bikes are heavy 🙂

My new one has rohloff,dynamo and discs heavy but lovely 🙂

Discs are definitely worth it as is a low bottom gear. Personally i prefer drop bars but some dont

Yes, a tourer can't have too low a gear!

I've owned a Dawes Galaxy before, it was a great bike and very comfy. The miles went by no problem.
I couldn't see much difference between the one I had and the much older models you see around, so I don't think you'll be missing out on anything if you buy second hand.
However I would also agree with the above comments about disc brakes, especially in wet weather. If I did another tour now I would use my commuter, which is a Surly Troll- essentially a rigid mountain bike with Continental GatorSkin tyres.

How tall are you? I have a Kona Sutra for sale. 3x9 mainly XT, BB7 disc brakes, bar-end shifters. It's an excellent tourer, designed for the job.

A bit like this:
[url= http://2k13.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=sutra ]Sutra[/url]

Have a look at the Spesh AWOL. Was looking at the 2016 range in the LBS yesterday. Great racks on them, too.

(Hur, hur....racks etc. )

2nd the AWOL - it's designed to be front loaded which means it doesn't have a stiff, overbuilt rear end like a lot of touring bikes. It has a nice springy feel so good for comfort and is great when ridden unloaded.

Bikes like the Surly LHT are good for really heavy touring, but can feel like a tank.

Moses, 5.10" and a bit 😆
Panniers, probably use 2 rear and 2 front max but I do have some Apidura kit bags now so I could use those..

PM me if you think it'll fit, with a price too.

As for all the other advice, I'll take a good look around, the AWOL looks good. Strange don't you think that you can get these bikes cheaper than 200 pints of beer..

😀

You can get a Raleigh Royal (new) for about £500. I've got one, its fine. It is rather heavy, and some cheap components, but you can replace those when they where out.
I've done a few wee tours on it, with a couple of panniers on the back, or a trailer. I've just fitted a front rack, I'm going to try out front panniers as well.

It has cantilever brakes, which can be a bit fiddly to set up. And certainly not as good as discs in wet weather. But its OK, so long as you don't need to stop a heavily laden bike in a hurry...

I would go for discs if buying a new one. The Edinburgh Bikes Revolution Country Explorer looks good, with disc brakes, for £600.

I'll use it for cruising around Town and overnight pootles p2p stuff all on road and at leisurely pace.

Hmm. Sounds like you don't really need a full blown tourer TBH. Why not a decent steel framed MTB with rigid forks? That's what I use...
[url= https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2909/14374315242_929e6226ba_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2909/14374315242_929e6226ba_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/nUd88q ]IMG_3845[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_atkin/ ]Peter Atkin[/url], on Flickr
It had rack mounts on it, I created a couple of mudguard mounts. Rigid fork was £20 off a mate. Tyres are 1.5in Schwalbe City Jets. Luggage was expensive....
Gears are full 22/32/44 with 11-34 MTB tsp, so cheap as chips. Wheels my old XC ones in the pic, but the rear rim gave up on it's 4th 300+ mile tour so now its 321s on XT rather than 717s on Hope as pictured!
Only two niggles are the lack of a 2nd bottle cage mount (So I zip tied another cage to the top of the rack) and I do get a bit of brake fade on REALLY STEEP hills, but that's one heavy outfit there!

I've done three multi-month tours on my 700c V brake Long haul Trucker. Built from a frame with Deore/XT/LX bits. Spa Cycles handbuilt wheels. 22/32/43 and 11-34 cassette. Wouldn't change a thing. great handling loaded or unloaded. Can coast hands free from 35mph to walking speed with a touring load.

I'm 15-17 stone (start or end of tour) and carry 25-30 pounds of gear before food. V brakes are fine for touring in hilly areas as long as your brake pads are good. Shimano OEM are too hard. Bell V pads at £1.75 from Asda work well and are a softer compound for less rim damage.

But if you are buying second hand I wouldn't rule any decent tourer. Some nice tourers come up on the for sale at CTC forums.

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=40

£1200!

[img] [/img]

Bargainous.

Bikebuoy, sorry, my Sutra is a 50cm, probably a little too small for you. But I really need to get rid of it, it's a standing reproach for not using it.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

£1200!

S'got a double, s'not a tourer.
It's the bicycle equivalent of a Range Rover Sport. 🙂

Mind you, should appeal to the kind of bloke who kisses his signed photo of Ewan before hopping on his BMW GS to commute five miles across town.
😀

For me, the Long Haul Trucker, 2016 Sutra or a 2015 Tour De Fer are the only drop bar disc tourers that come fully equipped:
Inboard rear disc.
Separate bosses for guard and rack mounts.
Triple.

Now I'm used to discs, the thought of trying to stop a fully laden tourer with a set of cantis scares the gravy out of me.

I do love traditional tourers, but don't go bike camping* as much these days so I don't really need one.

*It's like bikepacking, but without the marketing opportunities.

I love touring bikes.

My first one (an adapted Trek 520) took me round Britain and ended up with 65,000 miles under its wheels.

My current tourer is a Surly Disc Trucker from Spa Cycles. Superb bike, coming in at around £1000. I would never buy a touring bike without discs again.

I'm not a fan of Dawes Galaxys - I think the top-tubes are too long and they're overpriced. Be aware of cyclocross bikes - they're not tourers and the geometry is too racey.

My Surly at Balquhidder on a recent weekend away to Loch Voil hostel.

[img] [/img]

Is that the awol ? Looks got but I am looking for a triple..

The longer top tube on the Galaxy might fit me, I am a bit old school stretched out when riding..

I do want to be able to fit some 35+mm tyres, not much bigger but want to be able to fit some at acme point.

The pootle comment in Town is just that, I'm sick of riding the foldie around, quite the most uncomfortable thing these days and I think for just popping in once or twice a month I'll lock the tourer up. But the main reason is touring. I've done a lot of two day off road stuff on the CXer and I like that, but this will be used for longer NCN routes, 3-4 days on roads/rough roads and then be able to lock it up at B&Bs and stuff without too much worry. The CXer attracts a lot of attention see. But also I want to take my time this time, I'm a bit of a flat chat hacker and that brings with it a lot of missed views, I'm trying to slow down and take my time and go longer.
There is a touring bike shop in Harrogate and I'll pop in there next time I'm up.

Do keep the ideas coming lads, cheers

I had a Thorne sherpa great bike felt like a steel bike and would could go any where...I also had a Surly LHT but it felt like a lump of dead pig iron and I sold it it just did not inspire me..My other tourer was a cannondale ultra with 80 mm fatty fork my bigest regret selling that bike,it was a tru swiss army knife and sub 30lbs which is fine for such a capable machine Tourer's are the most capable of bikes if you get the right one it will become a good friend.

If i can only have one bike it would be a tourer.

I have an almost unused revolution country traveler going cheap as its to long for me they run very long top tubes so if you go that route be careful.

The base model AWOL comes with a triple, I think the one shown is the "Elite" version. Bear in mind that having STI's will normally limit you to a road triple which won't have a granny ring smaller than about 36t. I've got the AWOL Comp which comes with SRAM shifters - as their stuff is Road/MTB compatible, I switched out the crankset for a 28/44 MTB double which gives me a bit more low end. I find I run out of gears on steep downhills but that's fine.

The other option is to have bar end shifters like on the Sutra, but I had them on my last bike and hated them.

Bear in mind that having STI's will normally limit you to a road triple which won't have a granny ring smaller than about 36t.

I have a bike with STIs (10spd 105s) and an XT trekking chainset (48/36/26). It's a popular combination.

Spa cycles can sort the gearing for a triple give em a ring they like to talk but are not so chatty on email

I have a Thorn Raven with a Rohloff and it coped with the West coast of America pulling a BOB no problem, heavy not fast but stone axe reliable. I truly love that bike.

I wouldn't go discs, this may sound a bit lame but if you are say on the Washington peninsula and you run out of pads what are you going to do? At least with V or cantis you can bodge something up. Yes you can carry spares and they weigh next to nothing but it is something else to go wrong.

I'm not a fan of Dawes Galaxys - I think the top-tubes are too long

They may have been at one time. Not now. Dawes Galaxy top tube lengths from 530-583mm.

Long Haul Trucker top tube lengths from 564-615

DAWESCYCLES.COM "http://dawescycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Touring-Geometries.pdf"

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker/geometry

For what it's worth I had a 1990s 531ST Galaxy before my Long haul Trucker. Smoother ride unloaded but too flexy with a touring load. Persistent shimmy around 18mph on a gentle downhill.

There is a touring bike shop in Harrogate and I'll pop in there next time I'm up.

I've got a Spa Steel Tourer. Nice bike. A touch less heavy duty than the Long Haul Trucker (thinner top tube)and slightly quicker handling. Nice bike. One review rated it as the best tourer under a grand.

SPACYCLES.CO.UK "http://www.spacycles.co.uk/info/SteelTourerCycle.pdf"

Ohh thanks for the info. Spa Cycles, them the fellas down on the small industrial estate near the railway crossing on the way to Knaresborough (SP)

Looks nice that, I like it.

😀

I have a bike with STIs (10spd 105s) and an XT trekking chainset (48/36/26). It's a popular combination.

Convert - what front mech is that working with?

I run the same on a Fargo, 105 triple STIs (5703?), XT triple trekking chainset and a 105 triple front mech (5703). Out back is a XT shadow 9 speed mech and 10 speed 11-36 cassette.

i have spent the last 10 years touring on various surly lht and disc truckers.
perfect bike when carrying a load, or if you are a big rider. they are very hefty, very comfy and very steady riding.
i like to go offroad when touring, so will be using a hardtail 29er for the foreseeable future, or until the new salsa fargo is available.

I inherited a Koga Miyata Globe Traveller from my father. Great bike, same as the one used by Mark Beaumont in his round the World ride. Ali frame, v brakes and vey comfy.

Convert - what front mech is that working with?

Similar to midlifecrashes, although I'm posh and have an ultegra triple front mech. Paired with a 9spd XT rear mech (though if buying again I'd probably go for a 10spd road mech as there is one capable of handling the chain growth now). The front mech is officially out of range and needed careful setup but works perfectly.

I'm with PeterP- I use an On-one 29er with bags and then tow a trailer when I need camping gear or am touring with the Mrs. This keeps both bikes riding light and it can be parked for day rides.

Sounds like you're there but you *must* go as low gearing as you can, preferably with a triple for range, sensible steps and to try and minimise duplication. I usually run 24/36/46 and 11/32 but can go as low as 20 on the front and 34 on the back (9 speed so none of these new fangled wide range cassettes fit). Yes you can gurn up stuff or walk but on multi day/week/month tours, you don't want to abuse your already fatigued legs or lose dossing time to walking 🙂

I use bar ends and old XT rears and very, very old Suntour somethings front (one's a Cyclone and still going strong). People use STI's and Shimergo but it's overcomplicated for me (especially Shimergo). If it all goes tits up out in the sticks, you're snookered. Simple is best for me. Though it doesn't sound like a positive, I've had bar ends fail twice now (in about 100k miles...) and both times I've been able to continue to the end of the trip in friction mode. Try that with STI's...

Braking wise, I'm still using old long reach calipers on the dedicated tourer or vee's. Either brake fine, are light and easily fettleable with spares ubiquitous. I would not tour on hydro discs but cables should be OK if you really must and take spare pads.

[quote=steezysix ]Bear in mind that having STI's will normally limit you to a road triple which won't have a granny ring smaller than about 36t.

Eh? Standard inner ring on a road triple is 30. However like others I've pushed that - the tandem has an even wider range than others are using with 52-39-26 (could be done by swapping the little ring on a road triple, but that was put together almost 20 years ago, before such things were readily available). That's posh with a DA 9-speed triple front mech - at the time I put that on it was the only group with a 52-39 as standard for the larger rings and it does shift better than the Ultegra mech I had on before which was designed to work with 52-42. 52-26 is beyond the quoted range of the mech and the chain would drag on it if using the 26 and the smallest few cogs, but I simply don't use those cogs with the 26.

Have never had an STI fail when touring (no reason they should fail any more than when using them for anything else, and I've not heard of many STIs failing) and far prefer the convenience - once broke a rear mech and simply bodged to get to the nearest bike shop because most of us don't tour in the middle of nowhere. Though if you're feeling paranoid you could always carry a spare bar end to set up in case of emergency (you'll probably never use it).

Re discs; if I was getting new I'd get discs, but don't get too hung up on them - the tandem has cantis and has done lots of loaded touring through various hilly places without any problems.

Don't get me started on stiffness vs comfort, but I'd recommend nice and stiff frame so that it doesn't flex horribly when loaded, but with long wheelbase and fattish tyres run at lower pressure for comfort. Sus seatposts are also an option - we had one on the back of the tandem before it got the kiddyback conversion.

When I built up my touring bike in , err, 1980-something, I fitted a "half step plus granny" setup. Nobody seems to do that any more. With 30-46-50 rings you get a set of quite closely spaced ratios by moving between the two big rings (the "half step") plus bail out gears on the thirty (the "granny").

And that ran with downtube shifters & cantis. Both of which worked fine.

and I've not heard of many STIs failing

I have. In the last couple of weeks; 2 pairs of Ergo's and a pair of Force. Not strictly 'STI' for the terminally pedantic but...

This is like a lot of things cycle related; lot's of experiences and opinions and all equally valid.

The OP will have his own predilection's to add just to complicate matters 🙂

[quote=Sundayjumper ]When I built up my touring bike in , err, 1980-something, I fitted a "half step plus granny" setup. Nobody seems to do that any more. With 30-46-50 rings you get a set of quite closely spaced ratios by moving between the two big rings (the "half step") plus bail out gears on the thirty (the "granny").

Because it's too much faff (personally I'd rather not shift the front more than I have to), and with modern kit you can achieve the same effect with a closish ratio cassette and wider spaced chainrings - if you had a 32T big cog, then you get the same gear range with a 50-40-26 chainset and a 27/28T big cog, which allows you to have single tooth steps at the smaller end of the cassette.

@boblo - wow, have never heard of an ergo failing - what's gone wrong with them?

26 isn't low enough for 'proper' touring.

I did Lon Las Cymru a couple of weeks ago. Of the four of us:

One had a 6 speed Bromie, he walked....a lot. Gearing much too high.

One had a road triple, 30 front to 28 rear lowest gear. He walked any hills over 25%.

One had a touring triple, 28 front to 34 rear lowest gear. He walked any hills over 25%.

I had a touring triple, front 24 to 32 rear lowest gear. I didn't walk.

We all had similar camping loads and are of similar fitness.

[quote=boblo ]26 isn't low enough for 'proper' touring.

I'm not sure why "proper" touring has to involve hills over 25%. Plenty of great places where such climbs aren't an option even if you go searching them out. Have done most of my touring with a 26/27 bottom gear without wishing for lower.

Of course 26/34 is also almost the same gear as 24/32 if we're getting absolutist about chainring sizes.

Well it doesn't but it might. I can also easily change to 22 or 20 on the front and 34 on the back and do so if the tour looks like it needs it. 'Easily' being a chainring or cassette change nothing else.

Aracer, you're probably a really strong rider, perhaps don't carry camping loads, tour for months or haven't come across steep hills on tour (or any combination of the above) but, if we're specifying a 'proper' tourer (the OP's thread title), we should be mindful of gearing limitations and building in some flexibility.

[quote=boblo ]if we're specifying a 'proper' tourer (the OP's thread title), we should be mindful of gearing limitations.

Well there's proper and there's proper - I don't suppose most people go off for months (the OP did clarify that wasn't the plan), nor are there actually many unavoidable really steep hills around. Maybe it's just me, but whilst I quite like hills, the main aim of touring for me is to get from one place to another (whether that place is a waterfall, abbey, or maybe even the top of a hill), and there's a certain art to planning efficient routes which don't go over the steepest hills possible. Sure some hills you have to do - have spent the night in hill towns - but they're not mostly the steepest. Of course the wonderful thing is the possible variety, but having a much wider range than you need can also be a compromise as it results in larger gaps between gears (see the old-fashioned half-step solution to that mentioned above).

Not trying to argue that your way is wrong - clearly for what you do it is very right - simply that there are also other possibilities which still count as touring. The last long trip we did on the tandem was 1000km in 10 days, which I'd have thought most people would consider to be touring - have circumnavigated Brittany and Normandy, and over multiple trips travelled all the way from Perpignan via Marseille to La Rochelle. All with a 26/27 bottom gear! (also all in what seems like a previous life - last trip of more than 1 night was 10 years ago 🙁 )

Ok so I'm forming an outline plan for the bike and I'm going triple with a super low gear for climbing 25%'ers loaded. I decided that as a couple of routes I have set out include some steep bits of Yorkshire (for my test routes) then I'm off to the Lakes for a week and there I think I'll find some sections where I'd rather peddle up than walk up too.
Don't worry about the big gear, 50 on the front and something like 12 rear will be more than enough for what I intend to use it for, and loaded I see that I'd barely use this anywhoo's.
I've chatted with Spa Cycles and they've got some lovely bikes in stock, just need to plan a weekend up to see family and I'm in the shop at the same time.

Next stage planning includes luggage 😆

Then, then filling the panniers 😆

I like going over the biggest hills. 🙂

Luggage - I've got Ortlieb but would go for Carradice next time, if this lot ever dies.

Seven Dwarwes customer service roulette with Spa BTW - once in a while you end up talking to Grumpy.
🙂

There's light touring/Audax, long distance road, long distance adventure.

I've enjoyed touring on a re-purposed rigid cromo mtb (always go one frame size bigger) as it deals with major off-road excursions without a hitch.

Real joy for me is a 'proper' tourer like a Galaxy or my current project (old-school British Eagle Touristique w/531st tubeset. Feels sprightlier than the Galaxy and is really comfortable yet copes amazingly well fully-loaded) Give me a shout if you're interested it's a 55/56cm, I'm having to sell off most of my bikes but like a coward am looking for others to make my mind up.

Another one to look at is the legendary Dawes Sardar before it went alu. 26" wheels, drops, Reynolds tubes and had disc mounts :-). Hard to find, though occasionally pop up, saw one last week on that eBay.

Seven Dwarwes customer service roulette with Spa BTW - once in a while you end up talking to Grumpy.

😆

They were great fixing two busted spokes very very quickly for me on my CX'er back in May.. I literally went for a coffee and they were done.. 😯

Hmm. Sounds like you don't really need a full blown tourer TBH. Why not a decent steel framed MTB with rigid forks? That's what I use...

This. Or a road bike with a saddle bag - you really don't need much gear for overnight adventures. I recently toured round Normandy for 4 nights on my Thorn Audax, with a single pannier.

Aracer, sorry I wasn't questioning your qualifications and certainly don't mean to imply I'm right and you're wrong. There is no right and wrong in this, it's whatever you get on with.

When I read 'proper' I read flexible with low gears and carrying kit. They might well be a wrong assumptions...

I also use an old MTB for 'adventure' style touring. That is, off road and off the beaten track though it's a heavy old beast.

OP, try and get all your kit into two rear Ortleib's (or whatever you go for). You'll be happier carrying less kit and saving the ~4kg on additional rack and panniers.

I've also had mixed success with Spa and have been told to f@*k off once having enquired a but too enthusiastically about discount 🙂 I still bought from them as I'm thick skinned. They are one of the best traditional touring places left. SJS also qualify but I'm not that keen.

all this talk of gear ratios reminds me of my first big tour, for some reason I had a double chainset with 46/42t chainrings - ah the innocence (& ability) of youth

+1 for spa cycles too

ransos - Member
Hmm. Sounds like you don't really need a full blown tourer TBH. Why not a decent steel framed MTB with rigid forks? That's what I use...
This. Or a road bike with a saddle bag - you really don't need much gear for overnight adventures. I recently toured round Normandy for 4 nights on my Thorn Audax, with a single pannier.

I did consider this route earlier in the thread, as theres a Thorn dealer not too far from work and I really like the look and they also look "racy" which clearly I'm a fan of. However, in the future I will be doing more long distance and more overnight stays and while yes nearly all my overnight stops will be in nice B&B/Hotels, I'll still need the carry capacity and leisurely pace of a dedicated Tourer with a solid range of gears for the bumps. And, and the Spa Cycles one looks a bit sporty in a sort of Genteel Club kinda way, that appeals as I have some Plus Fours I want to wear whilst riding (kidding)
😀

I've just bought a Kona Dew Plus (delivery expected Saturday!), and reckon it fits the bill. 3x8 gearing, hydraulic disks, rims that'll take up to 40mm tyres, rack and mudguard mounts, and importantly, strong frame and forks. It's light enough at 12.5kgs as well.

Oh yeah, and you can get one for £419 from Wiggle at the moment 8)

That's a LOT of change for accessories and pies.

but s/h old ones (which I kinda fancy) come in at £450 odd.

I've got this, I keep meaning to either use it or sell it but never actually do either.

[img][url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1018/4733094515_ef5fe9533d_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1018/4733094515_ef5fe9533d_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/8dfm6R ]DSC00533[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/7614571@N05/ ]thisisnotaspoon[/url], on Flickr[/img]

I'll chuck in a set of ortlieb panniers (2x25l and 2x 20l) and a topeak-dx rear rack for £250? Enough change left over for a Tiagra groupset (although you'd probably want new wheels and a saddle as a minimum too). Having said that I've put a worryingly large number of miles on it and all it's ever needed was brake pads and cables!

jeezzz is that stem broken or have you the body of a orangutan to ride that thing 😆

wicki - Member
jeezzz is that stem broken or have you the body of a orangutan to ride that thing

See seat post height. It's how all bikes were once!

See seat post height. It's how all bikes were once!

I think Wicki is referring to the height of the handlebars. It looks like a real "head down arse up" TT machine!

Rule of thumb used to be that hoods should be at roughly saddle height for touring.

[quote=somewhatslightlydazed ]Rule of thumb used to be that hoods should be at roughly saddle height for touring.

Who's rule of thumb? I've gone a bit more relaxed nowadays, top of bars are only about 4" below saddle.

That is a wierd position for touring especially the canted up saddle for maximum perenium enjoyment 🙂

Love my Surly Disc Trucker. Ride it more than any bike I've ever owned.

This was taken the other day on a quick 3 day tour round Pennines/Yorkshire Dales. Stunning views at the top...

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/496/19938787496_dd790b80a4_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/496/19938787496_dd790b80a4_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

[url= [/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/129018234@N07/ ]Dale FTW[/url], on Flickr

Came across this one the other day when I stopped at Tan Hill. Owned by a Dutch woman who has been EVERYWHERE on it. She's just got back from 8 months in Mongolia and China on it.

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/471/19965021905_9926af4e6d_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/471/19965021905_9926af4e6d_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

[url= [/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/129018234@N07/ ]Dale FTW[/url], on Flickr

Rule of thumb used to be that hoods should be at roughly saddle height for touring.

Yup, stupid rule.

Hats off to your flexibility sir @ thisisnotaspoon -

Go low pushing a loaded tourer sucks big time especially at the end of a long hot day and the camp site is in that ancient waled bastide at the top of the steepest piece of defensible land in the area...welcome to european touring.

Daleftw - which way did you come up Hartside? My Achilles went going up that on my C2C and I then had to walk most of the hills to Tynemouth from there. 🙁 The cafe at Hartside had some epic tiffin though which lifted my spirits after the beast of the uphill to it from the west.

That Euro touring bike is so typical Euro - no cares about what it looks like, just comfort all the way. Butterfly bars, Rohloff, Maguras - love it!

That Dutch lady must be out for a day ride. There's not nearly enough kit on there for a Cloggy 🙂

Hats off to your flexibility sir @ thisisnotaspoon -

Thankyou 😛

The setup pretty much matches my road bike so I can sit on the tops/hoods all day and still have the drops there for descending. It may not be the conventional wisdom, but I figure if it's comfortable on the road bike all day it'll be comfortable on the tourer too.

The saddle is indeed a bit special, like a Brookes there's a screw underneath to adjust the tension, but it's way past saving so it's sagged in the middle which makes it look a bit nose-up. Really needs replacing, but haven't got anything both suitably vintage looking and comfortable.

fwiw I've not used a full pannier set up for more than a bit of test riding .. all this is just based on multi-day trips with lighter loads. Hence my scepticism of the usefulness of the gearing on some touring bikes I see.

Rule of thumb used to be that hoods should be at roughly saddle height for touring.

As for gearing / doubles on tourers, MTB or trekking triples are great but for the lighter loads I prefer an MTB or road double with bar-end shifters is great, it's an either/or lever move for the FD with no middle-ground adjustments needed and the range is enough, only losing out on the higher gears that I don't need. Matched with a wide-ratio rear so that there's less clicks to hit a low-enough gear.

Never felt the need for exact cadence matches on a touring bike, just find the one that's 'just low enough'. Recently did an 8 day on-off road ride in the Alps with ~7kg on the bike and didn't need higher than a 40-11 gear. I used a 34-48 double on a road trip last year and rarely needed the higher gears. 48-50 outers don't get much use on my lighter touring bikes and I'd use a 22-32-44 triple if I was going to the big mountains with more weight.
Also prefer shorter cranks on a tourer / multi-day bike so that helps me spin a lower gear. Otherwise I like SS mtbs and tend to have a fairly low cadence on my road bikes so I'm no natural spinner, put me on a slightly heavier bike for a week plus and that approach just wears me out. Gearing down is good.

All just depends on what amount of kit you like to take with you, all-up weight etc. One day I'll do a full luxuries ride with 30kg just for the hell of it.. Had a couple of RTWers staying here recently and I rode one of their bikes briefly - wow. The route would need to be able to justify that amount of gear for me, if it did it'd be an amazing ride 😀

I did consider this route earlier in the thread, as theres a Thorn dealer not too far from work and I really like the look and they also look "racy" which clearly I'm a fan of. However, in the future I will be doing more long distance and more overnight stays and while yes nearly all my overnight stops will be in nice B&B/Hotels, I'll still need the carry capacity and leisurely pace of a dedicated Tourer with a solid range of gears for the bumps.

I did a 12-day LEJOG credit card tour using the Audax and two small panniers. You absolutely don't need a full-on tourer for what you're describing, plus it's easy enough to fit lower gears to an audax-style bike. Though you probably won't need lower gears if you stick with a lighter bike and less luggage...

Rule of thumb used to be that hoods should be at roughly saddle height for touring.

Yup, stupid rule.

Not really. Use proper deep drops and start off with hoods or bars at saddle height. Adjust up and down to suit your riding.

Deeply unfashionable and no longer easy with modern frame and fork design. But I reckon that's why shallow drop bars seem so popular now - people are forced to have their bars set too low to start with.

Adjust up and down to suit your riding.

Ah, quite a different rule.

Aye, shallow drops, fok aren't flexible enough, used to flat bars I guess.

There are no rules to touring, just do what works for you.

I had a good look around the UK Audax website last night (after 15 laps of Sprints around Regents Park on the roadie, god that was dull 😮 )
There seems to be a lot of events 200k+ on there and just wondering, that's some distance for a days ride isn't it. I know I do it on the roadie with mates but then speeds are greater and we'll crack that in 4-5hrs but an Audax, shirley thats an all day job and most of the evening?
I kinda think my rides will be 80-100k a day max, kick back a bit and smell the Roses kinda thing.
Your mileage would be something similar to my expectations yes?

There seems to be a lot of events 200k+ on there and just wondering, that's some distance for a days ride isn't it. I know I do it on the roadie with mates but then speeds are greater and we'll crack that in 4-5hrs but an Audax, shirley thats an all day job and most of the evening?

You can do 200km in 4-5 hours?

Aye, shallow drops, fok aren't flexible enough

It's more than that.

Previously bars had a deep drop, but a lot more time was spent in the drops and the hoods was the more upright position, and there was a decent difference between them.

The hoods has now become the default position*, so they've moved lower to maintain a decent aero/performance position, consequently the drop has had to be become shallower and now the drops are much less used, and the difference between drops and tops/hoods is much less marked.

For touring, and indeed normal riding, the deeper drops and higher bars makes more sense, gives a much bigger difference between positions and you can make more regular use of the drops.

*Combination of decent ergonomics on the hoods with the advent of STIs/Ergos, coupled with the fashion for stem slamming 😉

See my [i][b]really [/b][/i]crappy exaggerated illustration below 🙂

[img] [/img]

I hate to piss on your chips, but that CB of mine was refurbed in the early 80's when it gained the 600 groupset, and those bars are pretty shallow! I've no idea how old the frame is!

It's not something you can pin on sportiveists, unless you think they got the idea from old touring bikes, note the CB has a long HT and fairly short drops.

Why are head tubes so short these days ?

Why are [b]some[/b] head tubes so short these days ?

Some are, some aren't. Cervelo make a selling point of having long headtubes as their rationale says it's more aero as no one can ride a bike with a short headtube and still get their forearms level. The downside of that is some pro's can, so you end up with pro's riding frames that are much smaller but with 140mm stems. And most 'sportive' frames have longer headtubes, and they're no longer the poor relation in aluminium or low grade carbon, there's often an equivalent tot he race bike at each price point.

But in general you can raise a stem, but you can't lower it, so a frame with a short headtube can fit more people than one with a long headtube.

I still ride a 'race' frame despite having never raced. It's like going out for a blast in a Lotus Elise on a Sunday morning, a Golf GTI would be just as quick and a lot more comfortable, but I'd rather the responsive / twitchy / mildly uncomfortable 'toy'.